R B Housebuilders Forum 15th September Maria Coulter, Construction Coach 20260915 093627 Meeting Rec transcript

Good good morning to to to everybody. Um thank you again for joining the call. Um, for me this is a subject matter that I don't think anybody could ignore and if you do, you ignore it at your peril in terms of it. And I guess the reason why I'm bringing it to this forum um is because I don't think in my 45 year career I've never known a more challenging and difficult market particularly forme house builders. And one of the things that's critical um is how during this tough time do you become more efficient and more effective at what you do?

And AI certainly can be a vehicle to do that and it's probably the best time to do it. But handled in the wrong way, AI can be incredibly dangerous and misleading. So I think um I've got uh Maria um who is from my perspective a guru in this arena. Um um but what we're planning to do is probably have Maria carry a presentation. She's got a gentleman as well with her Cade um from Nexley AI um that she's working closely with.

So they will share with you this and she's been working withme organizations. So she's very much looking at how they can support small businesses. So I think we've got someone well placed to communicate AI in a manner and a way that we can all understand. Um so I think that's pretty important. Before I um hand over to Maria um we've mentioned briefly the regional building foundation um it is significant um we want it to be gamechanging for the industry and it is a movement um and um we have five founding sponsors that have contributed significant amount of money to get it up and running and um we are having housebuilders that want to join as members um to the regional building foundation which is in essence a charity I it's it's a CIC organization so it's not a for making money it is all about supporting and connecting land owners with SN house builders and also creating 14 regional forums up and down the country and creating what we call a regional building ecosystem of all parties involved.

So, it's it's it's been a long time getting there. Um, but Ben Bulga um this week is seeing his boss um to share with him how the launch went and the particulars. So, it it certainly is of significant profile and I would urge you all to go on to the R&B house builder website later on today. We'll have details all up there. You probably already seen details on LinkedIn about the launch. Um um but it really is something that that I'm super passionate about because it's about supporting SN house builders because I think I've said to everybody on many many occasions, I don't want to see a country that's got five national house builders built in 95% of all homes.

And if we're not going to do something about it, that's probably where we're all going to end up. So, and it's not good for any of us for that to happen. Even the national house builders do not want to see that happen. So, just say that's a really important area. Um the other thing that I'd like to share um is we uh the R&B house builder forum are going to be sponsoring what house awards and the the category under 50.

So small house builder of the year. So I'm absolutely thrilled to say that we are putting our name on the map and we have got >> could someone who's on the call we've already spent 12 over £12,000. Can we silence that person, Anna? Thank you. So, I just think um we've got three tables there. Um so, it's 36. So, the R&B House Builder Forum will truly be on the map nationally. Um I think there's about 1500 people going to the house awards and typically it's the majors and the nationals that are there.

Um but we will be having three tables with SN house builders and we'll be presenting one of the awards. So it's a it's a huge milestone from something that started 6 and a half years ago with 12me house builders and myself on a zoom call to over 400 members now. So um congratulations to you all for being part of that journey and part of that success with us. Um so I think that's something I wanted to just mention in in terms of that.

We also later on this month will have about 70 of you joining us for a face-to-face shooting and innovation event. So there's 70 people going to be converging down near Andover to join us and we have an innovation session. So that's an all day event. So we are looking to have and hold some more face-to-face type meetings because the face-to-face meetings are also crucial. So, just wanted to let you know. Um, we've got the What House Awards where we've got 36 people there.

We'll have 70 people later on this month and we're looking at potentially um not because I'm reasonably good at it, but we're looking at setting up a paddle competition. Um, so we may well have a paddle event sometime next year bringing together SN house builders. Um, so yet again, bit of fun. Anyone can play it. will have all different standards and maybe linking that with something else. So, we're looking to create what I would call a community amongst the SMBs because by putting people together, it's amazing for me to see the the opportunities that come through land, through joint ventures, through just basically getting to know other people within your sector.

So I think that's it from me and I don't think there's anything else I need to mention at this stage apart from saying Maria super grateful for you to be on the call and I think the timing of this session is is really useful. So I'm going to hand over to yourself Maria um to to to share and to give everyone an insight into the opportunity. Okay, great. Thank you. Thanks for asking me to be here. Um, I'm going to share my screen and just take you through a few slides.

So, hopefully you can see that. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Great. That's a good start. Okay. So, yeah, it's Maria Coulter. I am founder of Construction Coach and more recently, Solving Construction, which is an online learning platform. So I work with SMMES, micro businesses to help them grow their business to be more profitable, hopefully happier as well. But ironically, so my sort of um ethos is all about how do we get away from the race to the bottom in our industry.

But ironically, I did used to be part of that problem because I started life as a quantity surveyor and a project manager and um you know I was one of those people who was saying well you know can you find 30 grand in your tender and uh all sorts of questions like that but I just didn't like who we were and how we did business and that was what prompted me to retrain to become a business coach. Um, so that's how come I'm here today.

And since then, I've coached um about over 300 businesses. So I started Construction Coach back in 2014. And um I've worked with mostly SMMES and micro businesses in that time. And I've really gotten under the bonnet of the businesses. So I like to think that when I'm working with business owners, I can create that safe space for people to be really honest about what's going on. And I started to notice lots of different patterns throughout those businesses that you know these business owners and businesses were um experiencing different challenges and you know I'm quite strategic in how I think and I'm always looking for solutions to problems as well.

So, you know, that's that's kind of been my main focus is to really understand what's going on with SMMES and micros, understand the challenges and do something about it. Um, and I I mean, I know that, you know, there are a lot of challenges right now with the theme house builders. There's a lot of challenges everywhere in the industry and but I'm also a great believer in the fact that mindset is everything and it's also important to look at the things that you can control in your business and there has never been a better time to design and build a business that you really want that's going to you know give you the lifestyle that you want it's going to give you what you want to get out of it.

So it is very exciting. Um but there is a lot to think about with AI and it's really important to be strategic with it right from the very beginning. Um I'm also joined by Cade Dylan of Nexley. I'm going to get Kade to come on and and say hello. So one of the things I've launched recently is an online community formemes and micros and we are supporting them with AI implementation and Kade is helping me with that. So um Kade has got a construction background but he's been in the world of AI for the past few years.

Uh and so I just thought I'd get Kade to come on and and say hello. >> Hello. Good morning everyone. Excuse me. Um yeah, Maria, thank you very much and thank you so much for the invitation to speak to you all. Um I'll keep this brief, but I would very much um echo the sort of sentiment from Edwin there. I think at the top of the call, extremely challenging market for you all on this call, but I genuinely believe like one of the highest leverage things that you can utilize at the moment is implementing AI into your business.

Um rather than sort of um talk about it in broad terms, we'll try and through this call get into the specifics there, I'd say the probably the three biggest wins for AI within your business is you can lean out your overheads, you can source um cheaper materials and across every process of the land acquisition um tendering and uh research you can implement AI to find those extra margins that you extra percentages. So yeah, very much look forward to um you know hearing hopefully at the end of the call what sort of level AI has been implemented into your business.

Like I say, I was in construction for 14 years, but the last three years have been only AI trying to solve the theme uh trade and construction uh problems because it's uh very very difficult to find margin. But this is the thing that I'm most bullish about where the opportunity lies. So thank you very much for the invitation and uh I hope you all find it valuable. Great. Thanks, Kade. And I'll bring you in as we go through the slides as well.

So, why are we thinking about strategy before anything else? And I think, you know, technology has changed definitely over the years, but the starting point definitely hasn't. Um, I first started to notice that SMMES and micros were having challenges with technology. uh probably back in 2018. So I was working with these businesses and I was fed up of going to conferences and listening to people on stage saying you got to embrace digital.

You've got to do this that and the other. Everybody's talking about digital twins and BIM and all sorts of things like that. But what does digital actually mean for the smaller businesses? And what I was noticing was who's got the head space to actually think about it and and think, well, what do I need? There's so much choice around where do I start? Um, one of the the builders I was working with at the time. It took him a year of trial and error to to find the right tech stack for his business.

And it was only because he was techsavvy and he was determined that he was going to be able to implement tech and improve things. you know, that was what drove him. But there was a lot of people just thinking, I really don't know where to start. And then you'd go to things like digital construction week. And you know, you look around there and you think, well, I don't know. I've got no idea. Uh and I even actually got invited to speak at MIPIM back in 2019 uh on their digital stage and I just said look you know we're in danger of leaving hundreds of thousands of businesses behind with tech because they don't know where to start and quite often business owners don't have the headsp space to really to get into it and who's brokering the you know the um the solutions.

Nobody was. Um, but it wasn't until 2024 that I actually got to do something about that. So, we've gone from 2019 to 2024 and still it's the same challenge, but the um CITB uh impact fund opened up for digital. So, I was like, right, okay, I'm in there. I'm going to bid for some uh funding because I wanted to put together a program called Solving Tech for small builders and got the funding. So we did this program last year.

We did a pilot with 50 builders to take them on the journey to find the right tech stack for their business. And we did sort of double their confidence levels with tech. But what was interesting was when we started working with the builders, we were getting people talking about AI. It's like, you know, can we can we bring AI into this? And people were starting to experiment. Um, and we did actually do like a demo day in London where we brought different softwares together and we we brought in like an AI demo with uh Microsoft Core Pilot as well.

So people were starting to think about AI then and the solution the the impact that that uh program had was really good. So, one of the builders that we worked with, he saved about 30 grand in his business. And what he did was he went all in on Microsoft, but he also started working with AI and bringing more and more automation into his business. And what he realized was he could scale um bigger without actually bringing in admin support.

So, he actually effectively saved that that 30 grand, which is a lot to a small business. So, we were starting to see the impact then, but since then, AI has just exploded everywhere in the past 12 months. I mean, it was even on the the 10:00 news last night. And when I was talking to Kade the other day, he sort of used the analogy, it's like we've all been uh we've all been given a car to drive, but we've not actually had any driving lessons, and we've not done the theory test and things like that.

So, you've got lots and lots of well hundreds of thousands and millions of people uh starting to use AI every day all the time, but you know who who's teaching us how to use it and and are we being strategic with it? So, I think that's why I want to say start with strategy and I'm going to bring some of the ethos of the solving tech course into this as well. So when I'm working with a business, I always get them to think about, you know, who are we?

Where are we going? What's important to us? You know, where do we want to be in the next few years? What are our goals and priorities? You know, how do we want to build a team? What resources have we got? What are the challenges that we're experiencing at the moment? And I think all of that information is really important when you're starting on this sort of tech and AI journey because not only is it good to think about that as a business anyway, but it also gives AI a better um understanding of your business.

So if you um start with that information and really understand that that can help AI like help you more. But also the the team and the resources bit is is really important to consider on this journey as well because where I've seen people be successful with software and AI implementation is when they think about what resources are needed to actually do it in the first place. So when I've seen people really successfully embed software into their business.

So, for example, a few businesses I've worked with are using um software like Builder Trend and Job Tread. Uh they're American project management platforms, but they are successful when they've got like a dedicated person who is watching the videos. They're learning about the system. They're learning about the data that needs to go into it. They're keeping it updated. they've got a strategy for rolling it out into their business and getting their teams and subcontractors engaged with it.

Like that's where I'm seeing people be successful with that implementation. But also what's interesting about tech and AI right now is I'm seeing more and more um softwares and platforms meet people where they're at cuz I think for quite a long time um software companies have been trying to get people onto their platform. Uh but there's a lot of businesses who you know they're using WhatsApp you know they they're using WhatsApp to communicate with their teams.

They've got simple systems and processes. And what's really interesting is that, you know, you're starting to get software now that integrates with AI and WhatsApp. So, you're starting to meet people where they're at. So, you know, the fact that you might not have a dedicated resource, you know, you might be the one that's rolling this out as the business owner. um you know there's there's a lot more opportunity to meet you where you are right now rather than trying to get you onto some sort of uh fancy platform and start talking to Brad and Silicon Valley.

So yeah, so definitely start with a business, think about where you're going as a business and then you move into the the diagnostic side of things and really focusing on what's going on right now. So where are you losing time? Where are you losing money? You know, what's your quality like? Are you losing reputation with quality? How is information being stored in your business right now? How is it flowing? Is there bottlenecks?

Is there stuff like that's stuck in people's heads that needs to get out there? um you know doing that analysis right from the very right from the very beginning is going to get you into a really good position to start implementing AI into your business because you you know you just really get clear about what the challenges are and and then also you can work through this with your team as well or you can use AI to interview you.

So, if people are already using AI in their business, I've actually got some prompts later on um in the slides that you can start to use to do that business analysis with AI. But that diagnostic is is really important, but you've also need to gather the evidence. So, you know, where is the evidence that you are losing time, that you are losing money, uh you know, where is the evidence with regards to information not flowing? you know, just do that real kind of deep dive into your business to get the snapshot of what's going on and then you start to build up that picture because then you get into the the business mapping side of things.

So, if you think about, you know, the end to end processes in your business, start to think about what's going on. So, you know, what's happening? How is information being stored? How are you doing um certain um things in your business? Who's doing what? Where is it going then? Is it in Excel? Is it an email, WhatsApp, Dropbox? Are you using software? Is it in people's heads? Like if you were going to map your business from start to finish, where would it all sit?

And you probably find that, you know, there might be some software that you're using at the moment. Could be some spreadsheets. Quite a lot of stuff could be sitting in in emails right now. Um, you know, there may be some WhatsApp communications going on. There will be different different processes, not all of them connected, I would imagine, in your business. Um, could be messy in places. So really doing that mapping is um is going to help you see what what do we need to fix here?

And you know, you can do that yourself. You can do it with your team. You can use postits if you're not using AI yet. But also you can use AI to do that as well. And I've got some prompts later to to help you do that. It's really good for that. So once you've got an idea of what's actually going on in your business, you start to think, well, what do we what do we want the business to do? How do we want it to work? What needs to be easier?

You know, what needs to be quicker? What information needs to be in one place? You know, what do we want to stop doing twice? Where are the bottlenecks? So you can then start to get an idea of what you need to do to improve your business and improve your systems, improve your processes, and you can start to turn those problems into a shopping list so that you've got an idea of well, what do I need? What interventions do I need?

What technology do I need to start to look for? What problems am I actually trying to solve here? Before you start like diving in and then you can start to look at well what what's going to actually improve it and it could be a process change that needs to happen. It could be better use of existing software as well. So there might be stuff that you've already got that you're just not fully utilizing. You know, quite often people are only maybe using 30 40% of what they've already got.

And I saw that example um with the builder I talked about earlier who actually went all in on on Microsoft. So they just started using that more. They started utilizing different aspects of it using Teams to communicate and project manage. So there might be things that you've already got that you could better use but but then you can start to bring the AI in. So you know AI can analyze it can summarize it can interrogate you know it can create documents it can support workflows and it can help you to build tools as well and more and more software is starting to integrate with AI as well.

So for example, I talked about a couple of systems earlier. So one of those is Job Tread, which is a a project management software that I've seen quite a few builders using. Claude is starting to integrate into that. Um you're seeing more and more um standalone tools coming in using AI as well. People are starting to produce their own apps. you know there is a lot happening but I think it's also quite overwhelming as well which I think it is why it's important to start with the the strategy side of things and think about you know what is actually going to solve the problem that we've got you know do we need to build something customized how can we use what's there right now and I'm going to bring Kade in to this one as well because I think it would be good for you to talk Kade about what you've seen sort over the past couple of years with AI implementation I mean I think you started using this so about 3 years ago something like that. >> Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um so within your businesses so I worked at house builders from umme up to national and in between both public and private equity and everything in between and those that performed the best had the best processes. However, as the businesses get smaller and spend is less available, the ability to set out processes becomes increasingly difficult. And across my career, I would read very organized, you know, sort of this is how we procure, this is our customer care, these are all the the different parts of of where we basically take, you know, provide value to our clients and such.

Um, that was never really achievable at the small scale. So that is now apologies. I'll just close this down. It is achievable to have the efficiencies and the processes of these you know um five national house builders at the lower level where you're only building a handful of homes or maybe up to sort of 2050 homes and such. that's now achievable with AI but sort of as Maria said um most of you on this call if you are already utilizing it will be mostly self-taught and that's great and it will be getting you answers um in a sort of um faster way but the most efficient way u I'd sort of say the most salient point I could make here today is that >> the knowledge that sits inside your business that eventually creates the value it sits in one of two places it sits in the existing softwares that you use in your emails in your WhatsApps you know in your management softwares whatever this may be and it also sits in your head so if you are able to connect all of your softwares into a sort of central hub and over time you're not going to do it in a day because we're human beings download what it is that you know into um whichever AI that you choose to use you will eventually build a second brain as it were which is an entirely new concept.

But your business is essentially made up of those pockets of information, the conversations that you have between one another. But if you are able to put this into um an like an AI program, it will have you if you nourish it with all of the data, all of the information, it is able to equip you with the highest and most efficient way of running the business, better decision making, um sourcing, you know, cheaper materials, um um finding better value engineering solutions.

But you have to over time have an ecosystem with complete connectivity. Not just okay the WhatsApps are happening over here and you know the emails over here and oh I need to go and do x y and zed which is the nature of running anme business. Connect absolutely everything which we can go into in detail. It's easier said than done. connect everywhere where you work and each day um update the AI system that you're using so that it knows exactly what the objectives are of the business because as this technology um continues to become increasingly intelligent and you give it more context the decision making parameters that it will have uh the information it will have to make those decisions will increase and it will just increase at an an amazing rate.

So that's what I would say just to that point, Maria. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So I thought I'd share some examples of where businesses are experimenting. Um so Carl is a builder that I've worked with. He is using claude to he's built role specific team members for estimating project management recruitment valuations marketing other functions. Uh yeah. So yeah, so he's using Claude. He's built specific team members using um Claude projects and they've been given rules, guardrails, that kind of thing.

And he so he's given the business context, he's connected it into systems as well. So he's using job tread. He also use uses a platform called bundday.com and he's linked it into Canva. So he is using it to help create social media posts. He has got um images that are going in there that then get sent to Canva. So there's a lot of automation sort of going through the systems where they're linked together as well. I mean he sort of estimated that you know he's for valuations alone I think he's he's saving a day in how he collects all of the information. and it used to be very time consuming to get everything updated and it's making a huge impact in his business.

You've also got um Rob who is he's creating schedules tying in Excel spreadsheets. He is using it for pricing and I am seeing people using uh AI for pricing more and more. But what I will say about that is it is crucial about how you set that up, the guardrails that you put in place and also the information that's being put in there in the first place. I think it has to be your information. Just saying, you know, get getting whatever AI model to go off and price something is hugely risky as I will share with you in a second.

Um, but yeah, you know, you've got to be really specific about the information that you're putting in that it is your rates and you're not just asking them to to get rates. And also Edward, who I think is on the call from Kid Brooks, I think you've got Edward and and William from Kidbrooks. So Edwin put me in touch with um with these and I had a really really good call with Edward on Friday and um so they're using Claude to build a bespoke online operating system and that's bringing together subcontract tendering automated cochasing procurement and ordering payment schedules and invoice checks and that is replacing workflows that were in Excel on paper in Dropbox um in emails and in people's heads as well.

But also what he explained was they went through that whole process mapping bit first. So they've done what I was talking about earlier. So the the system that they've set up now they started with the processes first before they actually started to automate anything and he showed me the dashboard that they've produced which is really really impressive. But Edward's been working with AI for quite a few years as well. Couple of other things.

Um, a client of mine used AI in recruitment and actually built models using Claude. So, they used AI to help and refine the the the job description and they had the best results that they've ever had like using AI. uh they found you know the the right people for their um for their business and AI definitely had a big part to play in that. And also another thing that might interest you um which was when I was working with a client and we were using AI uh I had the idea about how you can use AI to bring more feminine energy into your business.

So a client of mine had produced some tender documents. He really wanted this job. He sent all the information to me to have a look at. And when I started reading it, the first thing I could see was qualifications, qualifications, qualifications. And I was like, okay, so if I was a homeowner and I was wanting them to do work in my house and I was reading these documents, first of all, I'd be thinking, can I afford this?

You know, there's there's potentially lots of gaps here. I've got alarm bells going off. And so what I did was I said to AI, play the role of a homeowner, you know, a female homeowner. You are reading this information, you know, tell me tell me what you think. And basically, it validated what I'd thought in the first place. So I fed that information back to my client and then what he did was run it through his AI and he basically got it to refine the information and and also you know I do I guess maybe more in the um in the remodeling space but quite often it is women who make those decisions and and I do think that some of the uh documentation could be better, you know.

So, I think AI can definitely be used to improve documents and communication as well. And he won the job. So, that was a good outcome there. But it can go wrong. So, you know, you've got to think about the data protection side of things. You've got to think about the security side of things. You've got to think about hallucinations. Um, and I did speak to a builder recently who had used chat GPT to price a quote and it had come in £60,000 too cheap.

Uh, but he'd submitted it. He submitted it without sort of, you know, going through it and he did actually go back and explain the situation. he did get the the work, but he was on the back foot right from the very beginning and he nearly went under as well as a result of that. I've also spoke to clients recently who are housebuilders and they're in dispute with a client at the moment who is using AI to put together their legal arguments and the legal arguments aren't right.

But what they're having to do is get a solicitor on board to actually dispute what's being said because um you know the legal points aren't correct. So that they're having to spend money. So I think more and more you know there is more and more risk that homeowners and um clients are using AI themselves. So, you know, it has got its um its downsides as well. So, it's, you know, you've got to think about that. Um, Kate, did you want to say anything around the security side of things as well? >> Uh, yes, absolutely.

Um I would say that if you are frequently using AI um the level of security permissions that you um enable tend to directly correlate to your patients level. So if you are a claude code user um you've got the ability there's a few smirks on the call you know who you are. uh there is the ability to just enable full permissions um to run everything locally and to just say look just get me the result as quickly as possible um yes you know to to have the best sort of behaviors around security and such it's sometimes a bit bit tedious and stuff but I would just say a couple of couple of top tips there if you are able to separate the folders and such that that claude accesses or just segregate it um or or whatever sort of language model you're using.

So, separate the files into what it is that you're using. If you are mixing personal and professional stuff, put those into separate projects yourself. And do not store any financial information in anything that Claude can access because it's no real utility to you. I know sometimes people want financial summaries on personal finances, but if you can just uh yeah, no banking information. The rest of it is pretty good.

Family holidays aren't going to be the end of you. you know, pictures of uh of whatever you've gone on holiday and stuff's fine, but yeah, if you are impatient, just do take like 15 minutes or so to take out any sensitive payment information, things like this. The rest of it, you should be fine for now. Okay. >> Okay. So, yeah, start building your AI strategy. So, think about the business, where you're going. Um, do that diagnostic as to where you're at now. what's what's not working, what needs to work better, map it all out, and then that's going to help you define what you need, and then you can start to experiment with the the AI.

And I've got some prompts for you. So, I mean, presumably you'll get a copy of the the slide deck. So, this one is about helping you to understand the business. So, it's saying about acting as a business strategy assistant. Ask questions um to understand the business model, size, team, types of development and what you want to achieve in the next two to three years. Don't suggest solutions yet. Your first is to simply understand the business.

And that's the thing the thing you do learn isn't it when you're using AI um every day. sometimes it just can go off on one and you have to kind of like pull it back and you've got to be discerning and and I think that's why you know you've you've got to really sort of understand yourself what you want to do what you want to say the outputs that you want to to get from it so that you can just pull it back and say no I think you I think you're talking rubbish you know I think you need to I think you need to um to to go back and have a look at this uh and and also it can be quite condescending I don't know if anybody else has uh picked up on that before.

It's like don't be condescending. Don't assume that I'm not going to ask that question. So yeah, a few different prompts. Um this one is around, you know, thinking the the the diagnostics where you lose time, money, margin, reputation, information, head space. So this is a good prompt for that. Um I mean I I use the the voice note bit all the time. um you know just getting stuff out of your head and into AI uh can make such a massive difference to to bring stuff together and do that analysis and then you can use it to map as well.

So help me map how this business currently operates end to end. I mean I've been using AI probably for about a year now and the models are just getting better and better. I mean I use chat GBT and Claude and some um some C-Pilot as well but yeah I mean what it can do now is um is just amazing compared to where it was um just a year ago and then you've got a prompt to explore interventions but I think this is where like this group is brilliant so you've clearly got a fantastic community of um of house builders, you can all help each other, you know, and find out what's going on, who's using what, you know, between you all, you've got some brilliant solutions that, you know, if you bring that together, um, you know, you can you can really sort of learn from each other.

And I think community is just so important on this journey as well. You know, you're not on your own with this. So yeah, have a look at the prompts, experiment, um talk to each other as well, talk to other businesses, find out what's what's happening, uh what they're using, how they're using AI, because you know, we are all in this together effectively as well, you know. Um, so yeah, strategy first, experiment smarter, understand the business, diagnose the pain, map how it works, decide what you need, choose what fits, and just start experimenting.

And I'm sure you probably already are, quite a few of you. Um, and if you want to follow what myself and Kate are doing to supportmemes and micro businesses with AI adoption, you can find out with the the QR code. And if you just want to email me, have a chat. My dad always said it's good to talk. Always happy to to um to be on the end of the call and uh if you've got any anything that you wanted to talk about following the presentation, then give me a call.

But I thought it'd be good to open it up now to Q&A and uh see what everybody else is doing with AI. >> Well, thank you. Thank you both for that. Um, I think you've done it in a very logical process for anybody that that really hasn't got much of a clue about AI. And I think you you've created um, and I thank you both, perhaps a safe framework for people to guide and and they can move at the pace that they want to, but hopefully in a safe way.

I do love the thought of us working collectively as a community because that will increase the accuracy and the confidence for everybody that's on this forum. Um so that's really something I've made a note of. I think um it would be nice and I probably would like a show of hands for those that have used AI. Darren Jones, I'm gonna hand you can have your um question in a moment, my friend. But what I was going to ask everyone to probably show a show of hands, those that are actively using AI at the moment, um just to get a an insight.

So, if everyone can put their hands up, those that are actually using AI in some shape or form at the moment, it would be nice just to see the number of people that are um at the moment. and then I'll ask you to put your hands down. So, we're up at nearly third. Well, we're over 30 at the moment. Anna, have we How many have we got there? We'll just um You're on mute, Anna. But 34 at the moment. >> Yeah, 34. >> 30 35 >> 35. >> Hold on.

Okay. All right. >> So, around half >> around 50%. Okay. Thank you. You can all put your hands down now. Um, but obviously there's a few of you that want to ask some questions. Before I take some questions, I think it it would be great maybe to get Edward uh from Kidbrook and Will um from Kidbrook perhaps to share their journey because of all the SN house builders I've been involved in, I know that they have been very active and I know you spoke to Maria.

So perhaps talking to and a lot of people know Will Toga from Kidbrook in Farleam in Surrey. It would be nice Will for you and your son perhaps to share your journey because it's it will relate very closely to the majority of people on this call. So will Edward Toga would you like to just perhaps you know give everyone an insight of of your experience over the last I guess three years I guess that you've been working on this. >> So morning everyone thank you.

Um, I suppose the first thing to say it's a journey and it's it's quite a long journey and Edward started this a couple of years ago and I was probably two years ago quite cynical about the whole thing and wasn't quite sure how it would adapt to the business. Um because all of our businesses are they're simple in terms of what we do but they have complicated processes that all need to be followed and I couldn't really get my head around how we could tailor something to do what we needed it to do and actually probably two years ago that would have been quite difficult and so we set about looking at how we can bring the systems into the business and worked on it um I guess part-time and mapped it out in terms of what we wanted to improve.

Um, and actually what we found is that it was something that didn't work terribly well if we didn't put the time into it. So Edward has probably for the last three months worked fairly solidly on on what we uh what we changing in terms of processes because as um as Maria said a lot of our systems were in different places and didn't really talk to to one another terribly well. So I suppose the first thing to say is it isn't something that's going to happen overnight.

It is something that you need to um map out your business, which of course I did on paper um because that's that's how I kind of um worked. Um but it's also like um an employee that you've got this you've got this great new starter um and they're really really highly skilled, but they're not necessarily highly skilled in what you do. And so you need to explain to them in in incredible detail what it is exactly you do and how you do it and how you'd like it done and what the what the you know what the best outcome is.

You know what what's what does 100% look like. Um and once you go through all of those things then you start to um basically work out how it can um how it can help the business. And I guess that's where we are um right now. Um so so that that gives a brief um look at what what we're doing and maybe Edward you can explain a bit more of the the challenges that you faced in terms of getting it up and running. >> Yeah, thank you.

Um >> Oh, do you want to mute yourself quickly? >> Um yeah, so I had a chat with Maria on Friday and it was really good. I agree with what they're saying. Sorry, Dad. Can you mute yourself? Sorry about that everyone. Um, >> okay. >> Yeah, I the way I see it, there's two sides to AI. There's the chatbot side where um you're talking to Claude, you're talking to chat GBT. Um, and that's the kind of side where it gets better when you give it more context.

So, Maria and Kade were both talking about um an AI brain, so to speak. when you give a chatbot enough context about your business, um it can really really enhance what you're doing. But what we are what we've been doing is a different side which is more to do with software and automation where we are not trying to talk to the chatbot. We're just trying to get the AI to knock out all of the tasks, all of the simple tasks that um a person doesn't need to be doing.

Stuff like chasing emails and um checking invoices. So yeah, that's the kind of thing we've been talking about. Um, yeah, I'll pass it back to you, Edwin. >> Okay. Well, thank thank you, Edward. And I thought it just really useful. Um, I know Kidbrook very well, and they they run already a very Will is very systems and processorientated. So yet again, you're talking to a founder of a business that I hugely respect that is saying he was cynical a couple of years ago.

Um, I think his son is actually cynical of his dad, more to the point, but there you go. But but but but the reality is is you've got Sorry for that, Will. I thought I'd slip that in. Um um I don't have to be PC on these calls. You know that. But um I've obviously spent time with Edward and in fact I've even got my business I'm working with to meet with Edward and Will. So I think yet again part of this forum is you can harness and and and and probably benefit from Edward and Will.

Um so someone who's done it the oldfashioned way that's coming up to speed with stuff but historically Will has been very systems and processorientated to run a type ship to do that but even still is seeing the value of AI. So that to me um you know gave me when I got involved to say I must have people on this forum you know understand this and also understand as Maria has very very well said the dangers of it you know it's not suddenly going to make your life you've got to put effort in you've got to have a plan you've got to go through it to achieve it so I know that you had your hand up Darren Jones and and um Good to see you my friend from Allison Holmes.

Um over to you Darren to to to raise the question that you wanted to ask. >> Yeah, thanks Edin. Just just really to provide a bit of feedback for from what we've done and uh thanks Maria a great presentation. I started on the AI journey probably two and a half years ago and and it wasn't because I mean in any way um ahead of the curve. I've I've got the same color hair as Ed's got. So, you know, like um like William said, bit resistant to it.

But what what drove drove me and drove Allison is that we're funded by an American investment company that were busy 5 years ago funding all of these data farms because they knew what was coming. So, as a consequence, they're asking us what are we doing, you know, why aren't we? Why aren't we, etc., etc. And I think that um you know, dare I say, probably dragged there kicking and screaming a little bit, but um but what a benefit it makes when you actually get involved with it.

And the first thing I did was put a policy in place as to what you can't use it for. Um you know, and and you've covered it as well, legal matters, uh values for contracts, anything sensitive with commercial has to be a human touch. Anything legal has to be a human touch. Uh we've subsequently moved on and we've now got um an AI manager that that links into the uh to the IT director. Um the first job they did really was exactly what you say, map out, you know, the wants and the needs and and it was scary. you know, it was just pages and pages and pages and you think look, you know, you just need to put a bit of sense on this to be honest because this is just Yeah.

And the one of the worst things I think people can do is talk about how much overhead they can reduce as a consequence of introducing it, which is the wrong driver to try and start this. Um, what we don't want to do is deskill humans anymore and make them any more lazy than we already are to be quite honest. Um but the but the the key for me was um making sure that you do the basics right because as we've said earlier AI you know can't decipher between good and bad until you tell it what good and bad looks like. um skipping a you know skipping a long journey really where we are at the moment is we use coins um you know there's lots of different central databases out there but uh coins we we're just about to introduce coins EVO and um and it is quite scary to be quite honest I mean we will have to go through due diligence at some point because this business will transition to new owners um and I don't know what the DD is going to look like when that day comes to be honest because you can't hide anything um you certainly won't need a day of disclosure because it will all be out in the open in the first place.

You know, you ask I mean if you think about um Coins EVO, Coins EVO is like a super brain that knows everything and never forgets anything. So you could go into it and turn around and say, you know, are my revenues uh for X house type on X site um all matching the latest achieved prices? And it'll tell you in 30 seconds what plot, what's over overvalued, you know. So the point of overtrading the margin, it becomes almost a thing of the past.

Same on cost. You can ask it on cost. You know, you know, is my cost to complete on whatever commodity on whatever site or even whatever plot is it correct? And it will tell you in a heartbeat whether you've got enough on the clock or not. And it's it's staggering really, you know. But what you can't do is let that confidence in the system start dictating to you what a land value should look like based on coverage and so on and so forth. that bit has got to be the human bit.

But I just wanted to just feed in really where we were with it. And uh yeah, thank you for the presentation and it it's reassured me a little bit because there was nothing out there at all when I first started this. Um and I think you know what you've described and what I've tried to apply is is common sense if the truth be known. And uh isn't it always the way? But uh only occasionally gets used, doesn't it? >> Yeah Darren, that's so invaluable.

And for those that don't know Darren um you know he's worked at um um various levels at board level some of the Footsie 100 companies and obviously and now at Allison Holmes and uh started as a chippy all those years ago >> not the not the ones you cook. >> No exactly. Um, but talking about coins evo, I think a lot of us have got partners that can remember things and everything that I certainly have got one that I've been married to for 39 years that remembers everything.

I forget everything and she remembers everything. So maybe I should rename her coins Evo if they remember everything. But there you go. Um, James, over to you. >> Hi Edwin and uh, thanks Marian and and Kate. Just a little bit of my sort of experience with um AI. So my view is that AI is absolutely if you're not using it pretty soon you're going to start falling behind the curve. And what AI is there to do is to 10x what we're doing.

It really is to derisk what we're doing. But you've got to be careful with it. And you really have and I consider myself to be quite advanced in AI. And I'm useless with tech. I'm absolutely useless with with with tech. I really am. But I've been using it for about two and a half years. ever since it really came out um in in this country and they've even set up a business called Ortellius which is a AI tool. We use AI in the business which we um basically we bring transparency to the market for on market opportunities help people find opportunities but that's that's an aside.

So we have an actual AI expert within our company and he makes me look as though I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. So AI can produce really really impressive things very very quickly. But we've all heard the term AI slop and there's a reason for it. You can have a document produced very quickly. You can build a program very quickly. But what it actually does might not deliver what you're expecting it to deliver.

So you really have to understand what's going on beneath that programming or that advice, not just take it at face value. And we talk about guardrails and you can put guardrails into these things and even so AI will be selective in what it uses or what it chooses to listen to that you're telling it to do. It will be very forgetful and that's even if you're you know if we've got a great big brain where you store all your company information you can use something called Obsidian Vault which effectively does that and it creates a huge workup of what your business is.

Okay. But even so, it doesn't mean it will listen to it. Doesn't mean it will go and read it. That it will fetch that information. So, you got to be really, really careful with it. And you got to prompt it, right? If you don't give it the right prompt, the information that you get out isn't going to be the information you were hoping for. And I'll give you an example of that. I built a really complicated Excel model for a client.

Really complicated. He came back to me a week later because I taught him how to use Claude to ask Claude questions of what the model's doing. He came back and told me how he's somehow managed to um require 50% less investment, reduce the investment horizon by 50% and double the returns. And what it turned out was he basically got Claude to go and change the model entirely without realizing what he was doing. And the model was just entirely broken.

So it will lie to you straight to your face. Okay? You've got to be aware of that. So it can be absolutely transformative, but you've got to remember that you are the ultimate arbiter just as you would be in your business if you weren't using AI. So use it. Don't necessarily trust it unless you got it absolutely locked down. And that really is the trick. Edwin >> James, thank you for that. I think that's really really useful.

Um, and I know that Kade, you you want to come on to that, but before you do, and I'm conscious that people may need to get off the call, could we have now a show of hands, having listened, having known that obviously, um, those that didn't put their hand up, by the way, first time around, how many that didn't that haven't been using it, um, from what you've heard, could you put your hands up if you are now very much seriously going to consider using AI clearly because if you are then if you can put your hands up there are people on this forum that certainly could help you and support navigate and if necessary it could be that we set something up for people where we can utilize people that have had the experience.

So if we can just have a show of hands that those having listened to it want to be part of something that maybe myself, Anna, Aaron um will will support with. How many have we got, Anna? >> 11 >> 12 13 >> 12 >> It's rising >> 14. >> I should put myself on that one as well, shouldn't I? But anyway, 14. So that's I mean when you think 50% that's a 25% um that clearly I want to do that. You can put your hands down. It's just to give me an indication um in terms of where you're all at in your thinking.

Um, so thank you for that. Um, can I hand to over to yourself, Cade? Um, cuz you had your hand up and then I've got Andrew Naylor who's got his hand up as well that I'll hand over to. >> Yeah, sure. Thanks so much. Um, nothing too long, but um, would very much just echo what Darren and James have just said. They're absolutely spot on, but these guys I think are pretty far down the rabbit hole with AI and everything. And I would just on that it seems when you hear the value like that like um coins my god when I started I remember sitting as a graduate and stuff and going through coins and I just couldn't and now that information is almost instantly retrievable through sort of a open APIs and such.

But um for those of you on this call who haven't even started or are trying to find your way, please like the those of us that are speaking with a bit of authority and knowledge on this all started by opening up a chat or a claude and then just keep following it. So I just say be curious. There's multiple people on this call that looks like they could probably help people who would just start. I would be more than happy to have a conversation with anyone on this call um to get them started or anything like this.

And yeah, just be curious and don't try and solve the whole business immediately. It takes a lot of time and a lot of patience. I'm sure James nodding. Yeah, a lot of patience. So that's all I'd like to say. >> No, thank you, uh, Kade. And it may well be that we have a a subgroup that meet just specifically on this. Um, and there'll be some that will be late adapters, like anything in any cycle, that may want to say, "Well, let me let me let everyone else get it nicely refined, and then I'll come in at the later stages and say, "Thank you very much." And what have you.

You've got the pioneers like yourselves, um, Maria and and obviously Cade and the likes of Will and Edward that have sort of wanted and seen it. But I think you know this whole forum is about us helping each other and some that may not be able to help on AI will be able to help on sales and marketing that are brilliant at that or brilliant at something else on customer care that they can share. So, it's not about everybody um you know being experts in this because you can lean on people that you trust um such as Will Toga and his son Edward from Kidbrook that are a quality established house building company um with an incredible reputation in our area.

So, so I think that brings credibility and it's not a selling thing. It's something where we're helping each other to become more efficient and more effective. I think I've got Andrew Andrew Naylor. Andrew, can I hand over to you? And we'll probably after that, if there's no one else with the hand up, we'll bring things to a close. But what I would ask is those that want to get involved and learn more with AI, please drop a line to myself, Anna, and Aaron or Maria on the R&B house builder forum um email.

And then what we can do is to pull you guys together. And those of you that like Kidbrook that advance and Allison Holmes, um what we'd love to do is lean on you. Um and I wonder um in terms of that Darren whether we could have your contact at Allison Holmes and whether you know he would be um agreeable to maybe coming on a subsequent call like Will and Edward have done to to sort of support the greater good forme community.

So I'll leave you to come back to me on that Darren but I'll hand over to you Andrew. Over to you Andrew. Yeah, no one cheers anyway. It was just a I suppose a broad question for sort of um for the guys been presenting and anyone else who's been through it. I think one of the we sort of toyed around with with AI we we'd use claude and other bits and pieces and I think scraping the service and trying to sort of trial various things but I think one of the strategic kind of questions I keep coming up against and not quite sure which way to go is either spending money on the likes of Coins Evo and other things out there or do you go more of the DIY route set up an API drag out the data and kind of use the you know any number of other either bits of software or the likes of Claude board to sort of use then that that data set inhouse and I don't know what people if there is a a sort of best best first path or whether there's any you know recommendations or learnings that people have been through of whether to kind of you know jump in with two feet and spend some of the money on a you know um an oven ready solution like you know like coins evo or whether it's a more of a you know iterative process inhouse trying things building slowly and is sort of Kate or anybody else has got some Yeah. any thoughts on that?

Open that up to everybody really and maybe Maria and and and and Kade, you might be the first ones, but if anyone else has got their thoughts to share with Andrew, that'd be welcome. >> What are you using at the moment? Oh, sorry. Yeah. What are you using at Andrew? >> Yeah, we we use coins for for broadly end to ends. We don't use it for land, but we use it for everything else. So it's it sort of has all our data in there like everybody else.

I'm one of the the bits we're going through is is sort of pushing the business to make sure and reiterating that we're going to we are using that data to make decisions. So not kind of you know updating every now and again or checking it but look that the numbers have to be right. So we're sort of going through that process and at the point of using more and more. So at the moment we we've got relatively kind of robust processes, but a lot of it involves pulling data out of coins than doing stuff with it.

And I sort of aware that there is probably more stuff we can do just in coins or there's a a much more automated way to join up some of those dots outside of coins. And I think it's just which you know how we implement that. you know, some bits they can be bolting stuff onto sort of to coins um as Darren sort of talked about or whether it's you know lovable or clawed or anything else to kind of you know take the big data sets out which is easy and then with that big database you know ask it questions and do stuff with it that would otherwise be you know too time consuming or too complex to do on you know just an Excel um you know we haven't got like like manymemes either the time or money or the sort of want to be kind of um you know banging up and and sort of trying these things.

So we want to kind of use proven technologies and proven kind of systems. So at the moment say we're you know probably using claw earning just to kind of um add efficiency to the systems we've already got in place. Um and we're at the point we're trying to probably accelerate that a little bit and be a little bit braver in how we use it. Um but there seems to be a little bit of a fork saying whether you use um external software bits and pieces or whether you use you know the growing number of products as add-ons to existing bits of software. >> Yeah.

I mean before I would get Yeah. Kade I I think you should um take this one as well but I I would just say I think it's important to understand what do you want to get out of it like where do you want to get to and then sort of start thinking well what's going to what's going to get you there like from a strategy point of view. Um, but K, do you want to come in because I know you've said you've got experience of coins as well. >> Yeah, this one isn't a cheap answer.

The question that you're facing is the same for pretty much everyone in on this call who's hit a certain level with AR. Do I just build it myself because software has gone to zero and you can build custom solutions or do you rely on something that's there? That is a that is probably about a half an hour conversation. I can't give you a short one. It really depends on >> we'll do that offline then I think maybe Andrew and we'll give you the details.

I'd very much like that. I'm just going to bring Angus McDonald from Gallian homes. Angus uh morning and then I will certainly need to bring things to a close but clearly a incredibly um valid subject matter. Over to you um Angus. >> Thanks Edwin. Um Andrew slightly in answer to your question. We're using um construct for cloud which came out of equity 2 but we're actually largely and we're going through this process at the moment of integrating AI into the business um and we're getting a chap who's been an expert in the sector for the last god knows how long certainly 5 years um to come and make it all happen for us but we've recognized that we want to build our own system rather than using uh paying for expensive systems that are already out there.

So, we haven't gone down the coins route. We're just going to get him to create a solution and use individual pockets to create a golden thread of truth running through the business. >> Really interesting. Really interesting. Angus, I've seen some really funny comments on the chat. Um, we'll capture those. Um, it's not going away. I think what we'll do is review. Please send us a note. uh will collect this. But I think this is this is something that we might have a working group, small group and for those that actively want to to grow more and those that are advanced in it to to so that we can start to accelerate and add value and collectively we can reduce and mitigate risks of using AI because of the collective knowledge that's that's on this forum.

So I guess it just leads me to thank you Maria. um um for for an excellent um you know presentation and and and and and just going through the process. I think that was really useful and I think whether you use an AI or not that process of even evaluating your business is is is is something that I think most may not have done but could be useful regardless of AI but obviously AI can enhance as you move it forward and K thanks for your input as well.

Um, so I'll look forward to seeing uh many of you I guess later on this month at the shooting innovation event. Um, we have got Maria joining us um um at that shooting innovation event. So you'll see her in the flesh, not as virtual but real um on the 30th of September for those of you that will be joining us for that. And I've also got somebody who's a craftsman and a craft that was um established 350 years BC that will be a guest speaker.

So I'm going to leave you on that note. Um but thank you everybody and um we will be obviously pulling together. I don't know whether it's going to be the Bank of England next month. I can't remember Anna, but we will be looking at a guest speaker for obviously October at some point and we will obviously let yourselves know. >> All right, have a great rest of the week. I am finishing on Wednesday, so I'm off to Spain.