What is Self-Hypnosis? Discover the Science Behind It in Conversation with Adam Eason #hypnotherapy transcript

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] well welcome everybody and um LS yes well quite close chelam and Adam's in Bournemouth um he's just lives in Bournemouth and he teaches in Bournemouth and he does his research in Bournemouth he doesn't actually know that yeah I don't that right I don't like to to to to to go much further than that these days so yeah Adam welcome it's so great to have you here um uh you were here in 2007 but not like this with Donald right taking the the the diploma in cogn behavioral hypnotherapy a long time yeah I did yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it was a really good um um uh you know yeah yeah yeah yeah it was it was it was amazing I um I was uh you know I think I think um don don turned me on to a lot of um a a lot of things um for sure and was was very influential to me um and thanks to him uh that all of my uh all of my self- hypnosis um seminars these days I attached a surgical clamp to the back of my hand uh because I I watched him doing it and I thought to myself you know yeah I want to I want to start doing that yeah me too I was I had to before I when I took over the college I spent like a week training myself to be able to do that because I couldn't do it to begin with now it's like I think it's just aging now I just think it's a bit of old leather here and a clip it on it's fine but um it's interesting well pain control is a whole wonderful Topic in its own right so fantastic Adam um you're with us this evening to tell us about uh the of hypnosis self hypnosis and just give us a quick uh background a little bit more so people got some context about where you're you're coming from there and uh and your interests and yeah yeah well I've got um I'm gonna be sharing some of that within within what I do um um um but self hypnosis is is is where I began with it um I had um I had some some mental health challenges as a younger man and um a hypnotherapist uh helped me and um and and I learned self hypnosis with him and and and um derived a huge amount of um um pleasure from attempting to to use self hypnosis in in in know a wide number of ways wi Within Myself um I'm very much an experiment of one um um I've done I've done a lot of different things with with with my body um um and with the kind of sports that I'm involved in and so on um as as a younger uh hypnotherapist a very young uh hypnotherapist as well you know some of the the early machinations of some of my uh my my self hypnosis training was we used to run a a tent at glastenbury Festival uh called the trpn nois tent and um prior to every no one was allowed to come uh under the influence of anything and we would play drum and based music and teach self hypnosis skills for people to go and get high just using self hypnosis um so we we you know we we we really really used a huge amount of different things when it came to exploring self hypnosis certainly very different to the the the the lab-based self- hypnosis that we're doing at Bournemouth University currently yeah but that sounds really interesting and all sorts of I think there's a guy got published that book hyper emperia or something which is all about having these far out experiences um with hypnosis which fascinates me from part of you know my spiritual background as well so um fantastic Adam well uh you have the floor here um from what I understand Adam's going to be presenting for about um 75 minutes I think his presentation and uh he prefer we hold questions to the end but you can drop them in on the way through and then as we uh get towards the end we'll then go through and uh address the questions and I've got Adam knows I've got lots here sitting here so if you don't have enough questions don't worry plenty he's sweating Under the Skin there it's okay if I um it's okay if I just start sharing my screen yeah you've got the screen show I'm going to turn off my video now and you'll go there we go okay so so can you see um you can see my slides now can you we can see your slides yeah okay great great so um um um thanks for thanks for for tuning in uh uh everybody um of course you want to know um how how everything I speak about this evening is going to be applicable to your work with clients um um and and that's always been my my first concern and certainly will be my primary concern this evening though at times it may it may not seem it um um but we'll absolutely get to that and and I'll kind of highlight and emphasize particular points um um uh of that ilk um as I began to to to research study explore and and teach self hypnosis you know I I I really felt a need to apply it to my own life too um um just as just as we were mentioning briefly earlier and make it all really importable and and readily available to use across a range of of of applications and so um um you know I um I uh uh um um I used self hypnosis when running um I used to run ultramarathons um I was a sub three-hour marathon runner um and ran um a series of of 100 mile U um running events to the point where I you know I wrote a book um entitled hypnosis for running um um simply because I wanted to share my experiences and the applications that were available uh I I was I was you know absolutely amazed with the ability to reduce pain um when engaged in active alert self hypnosis you know whilst running when when you've run 75 miles you know the equivalent of virtually virtually three marathons back to back knowing that you still have to run another Marathon um um there was uh you know it was it was amazing to be able to to lean in on on applications of self hypnosis you know as well as reducing the perception of effort um these were things that I really couldn't get enough of um and and really kind of got me interested in some of the key Notions of self-deception that I will address and speak about later on as I got a bit older I didn't have and and have children and and a marriage to maintain and so on um um the amount of running I was doing just wasn't viable anymore and um I I made a big sort of lifestyle change and decided to pursue um um weightlifting and I went from being you know relatively skinny Runner to being a guy that can uh squat 225 kilos in my late 40s and um and and and deadlift 250 kilog um um again you know there's there's a huge amount of um um self hypnosis and and self decep ception that's used in within that and and it's been it's been fascinating for me so I I think the reason I was Keen just to impress this upon you um and by the way you know making making gormless faces uh whilst engaging in weightlifting is is optional um um but I think I wanted to to to make it plain that um um that that the applicability that there's a lot of theory that I'm going to be you know um um getting us getting us deep into uh this evening um um but but but the the Practical applications to both for myself and for my clients are of Paramount importance and so the theory will always be leading to something that that's practical and applicable so probably a good place for me to start um this evening then is um back in 2018 myself and my colleague at Bournemouth University uh Dr Ben Paris um published uh and reported literature review and metaanalysis um it was the first and only one that's ever been conducted on on self hypnosis um within clinical applications of self hypnosis um of 576 studies that have been compiled on the subject of self hypnosis across a very very wide range of topics there were there were 22 studies that met our inclusion criteria and that's the inclusion criteria of being randomized and controlled um and so on and and of those um uh you know what I guess in contrast to hetero hypnosis of course you know self- hypnosis involves inducing oneself into into hypnosis and then following a set of self-generated suggestions and self- hypnosis differs from from standard hypnosis or hetero hypnosis of course because it does not require the involvement of another person that seems like a really basic basic point but you would be amazed um at how important a sentence that is you know that that um it differs because it does not require the involvement of another person and I'm going to labor that sentence a little bit later on so um and help you um help help you understand why I think that is so important to say such a seemingly basic sentence so early on um um so some of the you know within those 22 studies that were reviewed um um um 18 found hypnosis was an effective treatment and and 14 studies outperformed active controls so when we talk about active controls we're talking about conventional care um um rather than um um waiting lists for example which is considered a passive control um of the four studies that did not find any effect compared with controls selfy nois involved listening to recordings only and I refer to them as hetero hypnosis recordings um um I'm specifically um and and of those four studies where an effect was not found none of them taught any self-directed or self-regulated skills um and and had less than three um um practice sessions so um quite a lot you know around half of these studies used audio recordings in some capacity um but but but four specifically used hetero hypnosis audio recordings only and positioned this and posited this as being self- hypnosis um um whereas so and and and what we went on to to to what what the literature went on to really identify was that that the main ingredients that were common to the successful outcomes reported um within our Metro analysis was was was was a the individual were taught self-regulated and self-directed skills and B that they had an opportunity to practice self hypnosis on more than three occasions now there was there was a case that could be made for having a precursor of hetero hypnosis and for self hypnosis practice to be supplemented with audio recordings but it's not as convincing as the previous two ingredients um but but I want to make this point really clear right now exclusive use of audio recordings you know and audio recordings being being labeled self hypnosis appear to lead to negative outcomes as far as the the the literature review is concerned so um um you know the the the conclusions that that we arrived at this this kind of early stage of the the research um was that you know self hypnosis is effective you know that the meta analysis we conducted um which is a kind of statistical analysis where you merge the stats of all the different studies um revealed a medium to large effect size um and and R you know randomized control trials for various medical needs have shown self hypnosis to be at least as effective as other better perceived treatment tools such as relaxation and mindfulness um um in in one particular study in fact um um a study on on back pain by Mark Bon but but the lead research was a guy called tan um and the findings indicated that two sessions of self- hypnosis training may be as effective as eight sessions of hetero hypnosis for that particular application which was for lower back pain um results from other studies um um G give us some cause to suggest that self hypnosis can be successful when hetero hypnosis is not so I mentioned that there are a couple of studies that that that didn't show effect one in fact was um conducted and um uh uh uh funded by our own NHS in 2015 it was an obstetrics study and two studies conducted in in Sweden by um two different um um studies conducted by the same research group Werner and colleagues in 2013 um and studies where the authors were unable to demonstrate an effect and and and there was an absence of all of these common ingredients that I mentioned pre previously whereby where the effect was demonstrated and that was you know teaching self- hypnosis is a self-regulated skill um rather than spoon feeding them with audios and saying that that was self hypnosis um so so we actually you know said what what's the difference between hetero hypnosis and and a recorded version of of hetero hypnosis um um one of the other things within the Met analysis with there was an obstetric study in the 1990s that um um um taught self-directed hypnosis used no audio um recordings and and was successful uh within obstetrics so it tended to show and impli that sometimes self hypnosis can be successful when you know a kind of pseudo hetero hypnosis in the form of audios is not um of course the portability of self- hypnosis is is is a thing of beauty for for for our clients um um the self-directed nature of self- hypnosis you know broadens its its applications um you know it could be used in noisy conditions such as you know labor and birthing and surgical environments um but also the the autonomy of the individual gets fostered because you know we can all use self hypnosis independently in a variety of circumstances and situations um and it's got the the benefit of promoting self-efficacy and this is something that's really important for for our for our clients and something that I'm going to speak about in a bit more detail later on um but there are also other reported benefits such as self-esteem enhancement validation of certain coping skills so you know like I said that the evidence is generally positive regarding the efficacy of clinical self hypnosis and and you know there's no adverse side effects that have been reported in any of the studies that we reviewed self hypnosis training offers you know a really coste effective alternative to some forms of standard care um um so so these are some these are some broad Strokes some initial findings from reviewing the literature so I want us now just to kind of roll our sleeves up a little bit get stuck into some detail some Theory and then you know how that then informs our professional practice with with our clients and so on one um as I already mentioned you know the key factor that that differentiates self from from hetero hypnosis is the the lack of the need for involvement of another person um so you know self- hypnosis therefore adds a level of flexibility self-control to the hypnosis process and and there are important benefits and and you know this provides a strong motivation for having a greater understanding of self- hypnosis um um it's it's over 40 years um um since well um um since the the the 1981 special edition of the international journal of clinical and experimental hypnosis that was dedicated to to self- hypnosis and and in that time research you know theoretical efforts to understand self hypnosis seem to have paused and and one of the kind of you know part of my remit with with my own PhD has has been very much to to revitalize that um um but but one of the reasons that um um you know some of the some of the understanding seems to have paused um and some of the development seems to have been paused it's because um the line that divides self and hetero hypnosis is is not very well defined um so you one of the one of the challenges that we have is that that that there are so many varying methodologies employed within self hypnosis studies that raise some really important questions when seeking to understand it in particular with regards to the input of another person so you know I was saying earlier um um of course you know self- hypnosis is something that's self-regulated self-directed and happens in the absence of another yet so many self- hypnosis studies require input of another person so for example hetero hypnosis is often a precursor to self- hypnosis I'm guessing that that that you know some of you present this evening perhaps you know teach um self- hypnosis as an adjunct to hetero hypnosis or even even create it as a product of hetero hypnosis so you know you you give you give suggestions in hetero hypnosis to be able to re access and we could potentially dispute that that's truly self-regulated and truly self-directed if they're reaching in to a former memory of self- hypnosis rather than instigating it wholly themselves and uniquely um most individuals engaging in self hypnosis typically tend to draw upon former experiences of hypnosis and draw upon conceptions of hypnosis such as those found in the media um um and and and so it's very difficult to to separate the two and pull them apart and and you know some people have even suggested that it would be Folly to attempt to do so so several instantiations of self hypnosis have included the input of a hypnotist such as having a hypnotist present who offers hetero hypnosis precursor or who offers verbal or written instructions to follow or or have the recorded words of a hypnotist play on an audio recording and and and these kind of instantiations you know that they blur the distinction between the two types of hypnosis especially given that the types of audio inductions that are labeled self hypnosis by some authors are also used in studies labeled by authors as as hetero hypnosis so back in 2005 um an executive committee of the American Psychological Association the AA they altered their definition of hypnosis to include self hypnosis um which they describe as the act of administering hypnotic procedures on one's own um and this definition you know it seemed to suggest that self hypnosis involves the influence of no other person um now they they revised that that the APA division 30 revised their their definition in 2014 and it was roundly criticized by by many scholars certainly Steven Lyn and his colleagues um you know suggested that it wasn't based on any apparent empirical foundations um but they defined hypnosis as a state of consciousness involving focused attention and reduced peripheral awareness characterized by an enhanced capacity for response to suggestion now that does allow for self- hypnosis procedures though self- hypnosis is not specifically mentioned and with these factors in mind you know you've got to question whether dissociating self hypnosis and hetero hypnosis is is is first of all necessary and and is is possible in fact so despite this some have argued that hetero and self hypnosis are entirely separate entities and should be treated as such and even though they correlate the existence of one is not dependent on the other um and and and you know the study and use of self- hypnosis could have important benefits and and that's what I really want to highlight uh this evening um I'm going to provide a brief review of of some some history some research some theories of self hypnosis okay um with a view you know and my view has always been to to revitalize the investigation um of self hypnosis so um in the 1990s an author called gravitz reported that that potentially the first use of self hypnosis was by France medma um as a method of of self mag magnetization for a blockage in the lower body and and and there are other his hypnosis historians that consider mesmerism a precursor of hypnosis that operates on similar principles um which is a big debate for another day um but but but really braid in the 1840s was was was the first investigator to systematically explore the phenomenon of self hypnosis and he used it to Aid his own health issues um and his his later work um observations On trance or human hibernation um naughty naughty braid using the word trance I don't know if you're allowed to use the word trance and your and if Mark allows you to use it but I don't I tend to uh uh take a taser to the balls and anyone who uses the word trance um with uh within my own College um anyhow Pro provid um um you know braid provides one of the earliest accounts of self hypnosis and he describes how he successfully used self hypnosis to deal with the pain of a rheumatism attack um by following all the protocols and instructions that he gave his hypnosis patients basically and you know braid reported he went on to be free of his rheumatism for several years um and highlighted that you know a hypnotist wasn't necessary you know Kua later supported bra's approach by conducting you know numerous demonstrations of individuals experiencing hypnosis displaying hypnotic phenomena without any direct involvement or or intervention from another person now Kua is seen by many as as as an influential figure in the development of self- hypnosis despite his system never being referred to as self hypnosis my my hypnosis geek badge is a is an Ode to to to kuay that's the reason it has a little bowler hat on um but but rather he taught a process of waking self suggestion you know Auto suggestion which became you know globally recognized self-help meth methodology um and kuay taught active imagination experiments to develop hypnotic phenomena um simply teaching a students to affirm suggestions to themselves while engaging in Vivid mental imagery with a de depth of meaning and belief and valtion um um and this provided some really profound and important foundations for for h how we how how we employ self hypnosis today um um slightly later uh in 1941 Andrew Suter you know the the behaviorist the pioneer of assertiveness and all kinds of other things um um um wrote a paper three techniques um of of of Auto hypnosis autohypnosis uh we we pretty much consider to be you know it's a synonym for self hypnosis um and think these three techniques were post hypnotic suggestion whereby subjects underwent hetero hypnosis to help access self hypnosis thereafter and the second technique was Auto hypnosis by memorized instructions and the third was um fractional autohypnosis in which self- hypnosis was actualized by building different component parts of the experience um within the paper you know Suter gives some scripted accounts of the training that he offered his subjects um um um and a lot of it involved you know vivid imagination um um and and and and and a lot of things that we're going to be speaking about later on today very similar um look to to some of the things that are used in the culton skills training program that I'll make some reference to so these are these are some solid foundations upon which self hypnosis started to to grow um um so um um um the notion inherent within all of these approaches was that you know hypnotic experience can also be improved with practice and with self-regulation and self-direction um it it makes a lot of sense for me to to to make some empirical comparisons of self and hetero hypnosis next um in terms of Effectiveness and in terms of um phenomenologically so so you know how you experience subjectively experience the phenomenon and and the the recorded Effectiveness um um but but there there's very little research that actually explores whether self hypnosis differs from hetero hypnosis and or or you know especially not um any that that or much that that explores how um the studies that have engaged in such comparisons have drawn varying conclusions one of the earliest um compar arons of the two bman and hillgard in the 1930s um it examined the difference in the the effectiveness of suggestion that was delivered on on postural movement um um and um um in the 1970s um um uh roou compared hetero hypnosis with self- hypnosis in the presence of a hypnotist um um and and basically changed the the Stanford hypnotizability scale form c um um script into you into a first person so so when the script would suggest I am about to give you some instructions that will help you relax and gradually enter a state of hypnosis the self hypnosis group would read aloud to themselves I am about to give myself some instructions that will help me relax and ENT a state of hypnosis so subjects were then given the same period of time as the hetero hypnosis group but both of these studies showed self hypnosis to be as effective as hetero hypnosis that is you know subjects achieve the same scores um um and achieve the same the same hypnotic phenomena now the study also reported that when hetero hypnosis was experienced on the first day self hypnosis skills were inhibited on the second day conversely those who engaged in self- hypnosis first were better engaged in hetero hypnosis on the second day now in contrast to that notion self and hetero hypnosis um are are independent and roou concluded that self hypnosis is actually the primary phenomenon and hetero hypnosis is in effect a form of guided self hypnosis um um um so so you know I mean today today I give all of my clients self hypnosis tuition and skills development prior to hetero hypnosis for for for some of the reasons that I've mentioned here and some that I'll go on to mention later on so you know um um I'm empirical comparisons have you know orbe it rather sparse have tended to say that the two are are equally effective um um but where it starts to become really interesting is when we look at the the phenomenology so um um Johnson confirmed some of Ro's findings in the 70s um finding that um subjects that were you know were as capable of hypnotizing themselves as they were of being hypnotized by a hypnotist um and Johnson and his colleague waight um went on to find that hetero hypnosis evoked more feelings of unawareness passivity and loss of control in their subjects whereas self hypnosis evoked more feelings of activity awareness and being in control of one's feelings um now Erica from Erica from wrote wrote this book I don't know if you guys are able to to to see it there um she wrote self- hypnosis to Chicago Paradigm um my my next book and and and my PhD findings and um as you probably saw the initial slide here um um kind of doing my cap to this uh to this body of work um by ericr which which is really comprehensive um by by referring to self hypnosis the Bournemouth Paradigm um um um yeah we're giving them a little bit of a nod there but but Erica from showed that while studies indicated that that both self hypnosis and hetero hypnosis individuals experienced a high level of absorption as well as lessening their connection to reality individuals seems to experience more vivid imagery when using self hypnosis and they kind of explained that away in terms of um um in in terms of you know you being able to choose it yourself um um later you know Johnson went on to report that individuals stated that they're more cognitively active and self-controlling when using self hypnosis that seems rather obvious um um but but you know Ro also provided evidence showing that more visual imagery um and and what he referred to as idiosyncratic fantasies would arise in self- hypnosis than in hetero hypnosis um slightly more recently in the late 80s um um Hammond and colleagues compared hetero and self um and and tape assisted self hypnosis when tapes were still a thing um and and um um basically found that um um the the the quality of hypnotic experience in terms of concentration absorption distractions from thoughts perception of depth perception of involuntariness um um the higher ratings were given to hetero hypnosis and lower ratings were consistently given to self-initiated and self-directed um so you know this has been borne out um in 2000s um and Biby and colleagues um um um you know elicited hypnotic phenomena and even though um idiom motor you know arm levitation and hypnosis regression to to fond memories were were equally effective the experiences were described as being different in terms of um self hypnosis involving more active thought um um and and atro hypnosis being more involuntary um um and and this is an important finding and and I realize it seems like a rather obvious thing to say but you know since the since the sense of you know um um involuntariness is is a key phenomenological experience of hetero hypnosis According to some theories I mean if you take whiten Hoffer's classic suggestion effect for example um um you know it says that that really you can only call it a hypnotic suggestion if you've um you know it if it felt like it happened on its own and so here we are having exactly the same phenomena being created with self- hypnosis but us feeling more actively involved and having less involuntariness um overall the studies that focus on phenomenology of self- hypnosis suggest that that self- hypnosis is qualitative L different it's distinct from hetero hypnosis and it's certainly experienced as being less involuntary but it's no less effective than hetero hypnosis in terms of passing suggestions and this is this is important um um so if involuntariness is a key characteristic of hypnotic experiences that many theories set out to explain and yet self hypnosis is equally effective but experienced as less voluntary can involuntariness really be considered a key characteristic of hypnosis or should it be I I'm not giving an answer you know um I'm opening opening up a question and and it kind of brings me nicely on to start covering this this was this was my quote um by the way um um I was speaking faster than my fingers were pressing the slide buttons U if involuntariness is a key characteristic of hypnotic experiences and so on um so it it leads us nicely on to examine key theoretical approaches um um to hypnosis and and what the implications are for the role of the self so Mark tells me that you know you you you are all familiar with the sociocognitive approaches to self hypnosis by the way you know I have to tell you this you know I have a I'm very fond of Mark Mark and I have known each other for a long time and earlier this week you know like on Tuesday he started whatsapping me about stuff that I was supposed to include in my presentation so I'm I'm next time him and I are going to go out for lunch and um and seek to make big big changes in the in the hypnosis World um but but he is definitely getting um um a wedgie at some point during that lunch um um in response to to this in a preface to the theory of hypnotism um and personality theorist uh white r white um of of lemonade fame um he redefined hetero hypnosis by stating hypnotic behavior is was meaningful gold directed striving um and and that its goal was was was to behave like a hypnotized part person um and white took the perspective of hypnosis being a verb rather than a noun you know um um that you know it's a skill that the individual has rather than a passive state that just happens or occurs in mechanical fashion um um and and you know it offers us an early example of some of the emerging sociocognitive perspective of hypnosis which really sits well with with self hypnosis um sain and Co you know they continued challenging the traditional concepts of hetero hypnosis as a state um um by suggesting that responsiveness was actually a result of participants knowledge of what was required in the hypnotic situation you know what their role related perceptions and expectations and imaginative skills were um and examine the kind of situation demand characteristics that that that guided the way the role was is enacted um but importantly they conceptualized hypnosis as believed in imaginings and argued that the participant has this notion of the hypnotizes role you know even before being hypnotized so they act and feel as if they are being H hypnotized um so sbin used role enactment to highlight the sort of active nature of responding to hypnotic suggestions um and highlighted the potential usefulness of of having this this education about the role of the hypnotize e and it's something that we do at Bournemouth University um you know we give an educational video prior to teaching the self hypnosis skills um um um so you know this adoption of the role of self hypnotist um and you know role all taking implies an act of the self um Barber you know Bara was was a prolific researcher 60s 7s in particular um and and and the hypnosis was much more the result of an ordinary you know ordinary psychological factors such as framing a situation as hypnosis such as our attitudes imagination motivation expectation all things that we are you know it that imply self motivation and and self-direction um now I'm going to mention Spanos in a bit more depth later on because he elaborated on the notion of strategic role enactment so rather than experiencing special states of dissociation the hypnotic subject actively transforms feelings and thoughts and behavior and and to be in line with their notion of the hypnotic role and so being hypnotized was was was a self-constructed role you know shaped after social models and expectancies um and and and and I mention you know kers and Lynn and their response uh response set theory um um and you know they concluded that that hypnotic reactions would different to Wi attention controlled reactions only in perception so hypnotic subjects would usually attribute their actions to their own will during and during hypnosis control is then attributed to an external Source such as the hypnotist um um kershan Linn's response set theory made the claim that all actions all actions whether they're hypnotic or otherwise are at the moment of activation triggered automatically so so it's not the experienced automac of the an idomoo response that that's an illusion but rather the experience of volition that's claimed to characterize everyday Behavior so research suggests that the actions are routinely initiated and pursued even when people are are unaware of the goals to be attained um and in curan Lyn um um were basically saying you know that although so much human behavior is initiated outside of awareness and occurs with little or no conscious deliberation the response set theory that people adopt during hypnosis um it's sh and these people are shaped and primed by suggestions and response sets that operate outside of people's awareness but still motivate and guide their behavior and and and they said that that actually response expectancies don't produce a response set rather they they are one type of response set um and and you know intention is another and we'll come on to talk about that in a moment but these these bring about automatic responses in the form of self-fulfilling prophecies you know again indicating a role for the self in producing hypnotic responses um so DCT um dissociated control theory um was kind of born out of um or the modern versions of it uh were born out of a very famous Norman and shalice model of the the SAS the supervisory attentional system um that that proposed um that hypnosis disrupts the the frontal lobe um that mediates the the attentional system and leaves the the participant under the guidance of a a contention scheduler the the the automatic controller of the the the behavior which is controlled by an external cue such as the hypnotist so basically you know you you inhibit um your your frontal loes are inhibited and you hand over control to another individual um and the primary role of this this this supervisory attentional system system is to represent and maintain representations of goals so to ensure that the behavior coincides with these goals um now this would effectively leave the hypnotized person unable to control their behavior and this would render self hypnosis impossible so as such self hypnosis would need to be considered a separate entity if dissociation is is to be believed and it would require completely separate explanatory mechanisms um so so Irving K and Steven Lynn criticized this dissociated control theory um um of of Woody and Bowers um for placing so much emphasis upon the loss of control during hypnosis explaining that such a lack of control could not explain self hypnosis is now there have been some some more recent modifications of dissociated control which which whereby some level of self-guided control is still deemed possible during hypnosis and and could allow for self- hypnosis but it remains it remains possible that self hypnosis according to their Theory you know is using a different set of control mechanisms Al together um I want to mention cold control theory here um um it is just that a theory and it explains hypnosis in terms of individuals disabling their awareness of the intention to act yet still act okay so they they're disabling their in their awareness of intending to act whilst acting whilst doing that thing and it's a kind of strategic disabling of their intention that suggests that the individuals control their awareness of the intention to act that you know and it feels so it feels that the ACT is occurring by itself it feels as if it's happening on its own um and a key component of this theory is that it predicts that hypnosis does not confer any special abilities such that one cannot achieve anything uh whilst hypnotized or suggestion that that cannot be achieved outside of hypnosis or the influence of a suggestion um and and this was built out of and um um built from um um Rosen Tal's um higher order thoughts Theory um you know where where we're conscious of mental states by having thoughts about those States and a thought so a thought about being in a mental state is a second order thought because it's a mental state about a mental state you know I am aware that the cat I am seeing is black so a bit like um um um you know if you've ever done looked at act for example or or ever looked at um um um the observing self types of Notions you know therapeutically I'm very similar third order thoughts are also possible um by becoming aware of having a second order thought you know I aware of my awareness that the cat I'm seeing is black and this strategic control of our higher order thoughts following a hypnotic induction would apply whether the hypnosis was directed by another person or by the self and so you know under this you know according to this Theory it's achieved by the self and not another so the role of self is really pertinent and really relevant um I'm I'm going to make a very small reference to to to another very popular academic model that that I'm guessing slightly less of you will be will be aware of um or even inclined to become aware of um we've you know academically we've had to pay a lot of attention to it because the peer review process um um this is quite a prominent Theory at the moment amongst academics um and and it proposed a what what's referred to as a predictive coding models um of of alterations in people's agency now I'm not going to go into into into any depth on this um because basically Mark whatsapped me and told me that perhaps um um you know I might I might destroy your will to live by going into this too too much um um um so so and and the amount of time I've got you probably won't have the the the inclination either and it's it's not clinically useful to go into this model in great detail but but I've had to cover it um if you want more on it you can you can contact me um but it's got some interesting some interesting ill illustrations because in order to sort of elucidate their Theory they draw on the sense of agency disturbances in schizophrenia which which is fascinating um in particular delusions of alien control in schizophrenia whereby the bodily move movements are interpreted as being under the control of somebody else um um but but like I said I I'm not going to go into big detail on that um today um so you know I I'll summarize and then I'll um um I'll I'll take some questions mark mentioned to me earlier but perhaps I could take some questions in the middle and then I'll start getting on to the more practical stuff um but but you know in summary we can see that many similarities and differences exist in the ways that hetero hypnosis and self- hypnosis are conceptualized with most theories equating the two now many if not all theories of hetro hypnosis have have proposed an important role for the self in producing hypnotic responses and contributing to the experience of hypnosis and and dissociation theorists you know historically supported the view that responses to hetero hypnotic suggestions bypassed executive control mechanisms you know so they were occurring non-volitional however later versions of this Theory kind of loosened the dissociation perhaps permitting a role for the self but others have argued that the experience of involuntary responding is auser you know and and whether due to role playing whether that's strategic role playing or not or the willful dis labling of the awareness of intentions you know insinuating the self back into the process so if self- hypnosis is self-directed is self-regulated and involves self suggestion perhaps requiring more volition and intention than many theories of hetero hypnosis allow theories of hetero hypnosis might need to be further adapted to account for self hypnosis um and this might be useful in theory building so that's that there's a whole bunch of theory there as far as how we position self hypnosis and and and I'll start being more I'll start using that theory now to inform our practical applications in the second half of what I'll be talking about so um are there any like kind of let me just should I stop sharing my screen for a moment and just have a quick look um were there any like really pressing questions mark um there um there's um a question here from CLA here in 2018 study were the Hypno audio recordings personalized or generic yeah they were standardized um I'm had to be yeah um um they were they were standardized um scripted and then and then just delivered yeah as a as a as a as a as a recording um so that there was no no tailoring whatsoever because I mean and what strikes me kind of coming off from that was which I kind of making some notes kind of VI gotsky and the whole Social Development of language being between two people and then the individual becoming self-directed with self-instruction and selft talk the child but how that then this aspect of self hypnosis and how that then works with the therapeutic relationship because we know that the most important factor possibly in Psychotherapy is the work alliance with therapeutic relationship and there certainly for more complex presentations this the one might even look at hypnosis as a way to strengthen the therapeutic relationship as Rogers would look at yeah and but the self hypnosis part would seem to peel that away and not and kind of to some extent sort of uh not so much strengthen the therapeutic relation o oh contrary you see I think part of our role as a hypnotherapist is not just to do h nosis but but to train and to to sort of Coach people to be responsive hypnotic subjects and that can be just as intimate process as as as as a hetero hypnosis um engagement um especially because you know um um hetero hypnosis sometimes can be um can be a little bit you know oneway one way traffic it can be it has the potential to be you know certainly with the way in which hypnotherapy is taught by some some places you know um um you know I think I I think you know teaching someone and showing them um I I don't want to preempt some of the stuff I'm going to say okay but but what you what self hypnosis what you get to do as well is raise self-efficacy and and and when someone feels their self-efficacy being raised your your collaborative the collaborative nature and and your your relationship your working Alliance raises in in in sync with it I I I totally agree and you know this is in line with what very much what we teach but and I'm also thinking many of these studies are around fairly simple kind of monodimensional you know one or two dimensional issues rather than a much more complex um psychiatric presentation where the whole work in Alliance is much more and and self ifocus is part of a lot of stuff that's absolutely absolutely you know um um one of the challenges that we have it in ever attempting to be scientific in Psychology is that that you know you have to isolate variables and you have to subtract um um um a lot of the extra therapeutic factors that contribute greatly to therapeutic effect so so so you know say for example we we have a study that shows smoking sensation is as 30% for example with this standardized treatment you know um um if you were then to to take that that 30% um efficacy uh smoking Sy standardized protocol and add to it working Alliance add to it expectation add to it the fact that someone's paying add to it the fact that you know you're you're a good human being who gives a about them um and and a wide range of different things we ought to be able to to raise that 30% to something much more impressive and much more effective in the clinical environment so you're quite right you know um um you know it's a really really important line of inquiry we don't be an absolute slave you know we don't become science fascists instead we let that stuff inform our practice enrich our practice and and then develop so I think you an interesting line of research might be to look at the uh measuring the working Alliance and using hetero versus teaching self hypnosis in ways that are very client centered and tuned with high levels of Rapport between the the client and therapist that might be quite an interesting absolutely absolutely um um I just want to I just saw something just fly up here um by Deborah um um when you talk about self- hypnosis do you mean just a bit where you put yourself into hypnosis yeah yeah yeah absolutely like teaching the client to do the stuff that you usually do yeah yeah you know and basically rendering yourself U um not not necessary as far as in induction of hypnos is concerned um you know there's a wide range of things that are exponentially better done hetero hypnosis of course there are but the adjunctive capacity of self hypnosis is is not is not so much about what you do there in the session but the fact that they take it into their life that they go and practice so if you've done systematic desensitization with your client and they understand that process then being able to instead of spoon feeding them with an audio equipping them with a self-efficacy enhancing process to practice for themselves um away from here is is is is really you know the adjunctive capacity is where it becomes potent where it becomes really and also that it becomes a skill that can be generalized into many other areas of life for them um um which is you know what a what a beautiful thing to do for another human being you know um um it makes um uh you know I think I think it's a very cool skill set and uh you know a wonderful a wonderful part of what we do do you think kind of porting on from that and also another idea here is looking Moment by moment you know we tend to sometimes you know absorb you know uh imaginal absorptions occurring if it's occurring or expectation at a fixed level for the whole 10 minutes of hypnosis but what we really know is actually things are varying a lot Moment by Moment by moment and we so that idea maybe that even a given session there's hetero and self hypnosis and Moment by moment the person is being more passive and responding and then they're more actively engaging and then and it switch Yeah and and you know um um one of one of the issues you know I mean I have to say to people you know don't go doing self hypnosis in bed you know don't don't go doing self hypnosis in bed unless you're using it to go to sleep because you know it's hard you know it um sometimes it it can be effortful to maintain your attention and to to fix your attention in with something and requires some practice um the irony being that that things you know active alert applications of self hypnosis are are are are a work of art because you get to use the the the the the working movement you know for me it was footsteps when running become your your your ongoing deepener you're deepening your your absorption mechanism um um you know the lifting of the weight the the the the strain you know the the it's very very focusing it sharpens the senses greatly rather than gay gay abandon lying in bed you know your your mind can can easily can easily wander um you know so so yeah you you need to you know with with hetero hypnosis you've got someone that's able to give you a metaphoric Kick In The Shins um and and you know waft the smelling salts under your nostrils in order that you can kind of sharpen where you're at and start managing things with with the individual and I'm reminded from some of this research of like me Bam's research on what was going on in systematic desensitization while walper thought people were just passively being conditioned he found they were actually talking to them M themselves a lot and I can do this I can coope with this I can handle it so yeah yeah their cognitive strategies were really prevalent same as with with the classic the classic marshmallow test you know the kind of cognitive strategies and beliefs that that the kids were engaging themselves with um to resist the marshmallow was was was where all the interesting stuff was at yeah yeah how we inquire on that so interesting let's have a look at a few of these other questions here yes so I just want to I just want to reply to Taylor here um is there research that indicates how to best teach self hypnosis yes there is um and and and our research informed protocol is something that I will share with you um shortly fantastic yeah the heads space app um yeah I I I think um yeah I I think I think the headspace app is um yeah it's probably not relevant to some of the it it um it's probably not consistent with some of the some of the research findings with regards to to self hypnosis it's it's it's kind of more more less goal goal focused um but you know you're quite right you know building up building up in degrees of challenge can be done in terms of building up um in terms of hypnotic skills so um you know developing skills in terms of idom motor responses then idio sensory responses and really being able to convince yourself of some of the stuff um that that you can do um and then apply over your life throughout your life um okay yes so so um with regards to sue sue soya your question there um um um yeah you know so so so for me for me um um teaching self- hypnosis isn't something you know prior to to hetero hypnosis is something whereby you know I have videos protocols a PDF format that we use within our research that that I give to all of my clients prior to them coming for their first session of hetero hypnosis with me so you know they they're being educated in it they're going to practice some skills prior to coming and seeing me for the first session and start you know sometimes it might feel a little bit trial and error and hap Hazard but start to familiarize themselves with it and and that that enriches the hetero hypnosis experience um so you said can you explain how this would work with pain where we demonstrate that pain signals can be modified um yeah so um um you know with w w wi with that um um um yeah can you explain how this would work where pain we demonstrated that pain signals can be modified and the techniques of how to do this then work work with self hypnosis yeah no I think I think then you know the self hypnosis then becomes adjunctive in addition to what you do when you meet them um um and and you know so so that is if somebody's got an understanding of and has practiced or had to go at some self hypnosis skills typically it tends to enrich their hetero hypnosis so it's it's good good for them to practice some self- hypnosis techniques before their first session proper with you um in order that when you then you know uh do your pain relief um um or pain application whatever it may be will will will be enriched as a result so all hypnosis isn't quite self hypnosis well this is the million dooll question Simon um um um um you know it it might even be you know all hypnosis is or all self hypnosis isn't quite hypnosis um um you know because because you know real chicken and egg um you quite clearly all hypnosis exists within the self um and and the self influences you know it cannot not influence it so so to you know I oscillate on a daily basis with regards to how much I believe that all hypnosis is self hypnosis and not um I'm I'm not fully committed to either de side at the moment but I am going to look at that that statement shortly good and we have we have got some centrality around the concept of self here which if you're a Buddhist is going to cause some concern because of course we wouldn't think there is one yeah yeah how do you direct the flow of phenomenal this is interesting um so very good so um okay yeah let's one one other thing was because you were just men there was thinking this idea which I know you're aware of that idea of problem solving and and so the idea the client is problem solving and that heal hypnosis they're actually getting more time to problem solve in a way and if they build up that little problem solving ability of how to get the suggestion to work then when they do the hetero hypnosis they can be doing that quite rapid problem solving of getting the suggest I don't know would you comment on that yeah well well you know I mean Erica from Erica from um um cited many of her self hypnosis um participants as as creating problemsolving strategies inherently and innately as part of their self hypnosis approach and I'm going to speak about um some very prolific researchers um Cohen and nness who in the 70s and 80s um were were prolific with pediatric applications of hypnosis and um um you know kids would would would would problem solve kids would would absolutely problem solve within um w- w- W with within some of the pro you know within the self hypnosis um um format um you know it's a very relevant um very good point that you make um you know the the the the it's a very rich and fertile environment you know self hypnosis I mean essentially it it it's it's problem solving in hypnosis form I guess um you know at one end of the Spectrum well and and we can come back around to the predictive coding um idea you you we should dive into that it is it is worthwhile and I think the idea that in hypnosis we are less constrained in our imagination than we normally are in our predictive uh way of seeing the world and that can also is paralleled in dreams and also when we take psychedelics um you know I had some chats with Lisa Felman Barrett on this issue so I think this is very interesting idea because it would actually give us somewhat of a rationale for some elements of relaxation back in there because we're being less constrained by Body by for example neuromuscular input if we relax the body and therefore the the imagination can row more free so to speak does that make sense yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah um it's funny because um we're going to be um uh in my research we're comparing self hypnosis with imagination skills um we're using it because um zultan of of cold control theory Fame uh believes that the word blindness suggestions in Stroop are are made effective because of imagination so we're purposely attempting to to to prove him wrong um by by using imagination as the control group and and really really highlighting um um Imagination um um comparing it with with with self- hypnosis skills which um yeah I'll come on to speaking about in a in a short I'm interested how you differentiate between the two and it because clearly felon Barrett doesn't see she sees imagination as the way in which we free ourselves from our habit yeah I mean self-deception self-deception and automac so sense of agency is the main difference with with within the two two protocols so um imagin is you know just engage make things as Vivid as you can and the self hypnosis that we're teaching is you know um um um um you know rather than imagine the things um you know imagine a pen being stuck to your hand uh we're saying you know that the pen is the pen is automatically stuck to your hand and feeling as if it's happening all by itself um and I'll make those I'll make those distinctions later on fantastic okay very good okay so let's uh let let's let go back to your presentation sir and we'll come back to the rest of these questions towards the end there yeah so um so to start considering the practicalities and and how and how this is useful for for for you you know and for your clients um you know I mean there has been considerably less research conducted on self hypn nois compared to hetero hypnosis um but I mean self hypnosis has been shown to be effective in in a wide range of clinical applications um immune functioning reducing the need for medication in child birth reducing stress anxiety hypertension the the most widely researched application of hypnosis is is in pain reduction um um anyhow um W within the the the literature um um so so so I mentioned and I'm going to keep mentioning it that the obvious benefit to self hypnosis is the lack of the need for the presence of another person so once T and once underway it can be imported into one's life um and and if hetero and self hypnosis are so similar it clearly benefits the patient that they can continue treatment without you know and they could they can begin to to develop selfefficacy um um and and there's evidence that self- hypnosis results in a sense of self-efficacy or or self-confidence within within the literature on this topic self-confidence is is regularly attributed to to positive therapeutic and performance outcomes um the the classic concept of self-confidence advancing performance was defined by bandura Albert bandura um as selfefficacy and this is our Judgment of our own ability to successfully perform a behavior and self-efficacy theory asserts that for for individuals with the correct incentives the correct skills the correct training actual performance will be predicted by their belief in their personal competence so so therefore if an individual has the perception that they can succeed sucessfully change in some way that belief increases the likelihood that the change will successfully occur so you know judgments about our own self-efficacy have been shown to predict levels of success and and and they support this this Theory now according to self-efficacy Theory efficacy expectations they don't just predict performance but they predict how much energy we expend and and our persistence to complete an act activity so support for the development of self-efficacy as as a byproduct of self hypnosis it's born in a number of studies a lot of literature but but in particular literature that's exploring pedi application uh pediatric applications of self hypnosis um so in 19 in the 1970s oldness um did did a brilliant study um noted that not only did bed wetting cease but children developed new Confidence from having achieved The Cure on their own so so this this pediatric application um I'm dealing with with childhood uh neuroses using self hypnosis to overcome bed wetting um um you know the the there were there were other benefits byproducts that got generalized into other areas of life which is just a wonderful thing many studies of pediatric applications of self hypnosis have successfully demonstrated an effect you know when children were equipped with this self-regulatory skill so as self-efficacy then develops so do other areas of self-directed skills you know that that that have been developed by practicing self hypnosis so um Erica from and her colleagues um in the 1980s described how their subjects experience self hypnosis as an opportunity for for for creative self-exploration and also stated that many of the subjects considered that self-hypnosis sessions were a problemsolving activity that they actively and constructively engaged in you know from the reason I mentioned Erica from so much is because you know this was like a 20 year a 20- year ongoing project a really impressive body of work um but but she also found that attentional skill problem solving skills creativity all developed with the use of self hypnosis so so overall the benefits of self hypnosis might extend beyond the direct applications that are that are primarily explored within within some of these studies but in particular with regards to the advancement of self-efficacy um now so so gorini and Spanos developed you know a method of training subjects to be better hypnotic subjects um I'm certain that that Mark's training um um includes this and so you'll all be familiar with the Colton skills training program but um um for those of you less aware um or not aware it aims to show that hypnotizability can be substantially modified so many people that were initially measured as being low on a scale of hypnotic responsiveness showed an increase by the end of the program um um so the the the the the cognitive the the cstp and the culton skills training program it has four parts one of which is to regularly practice the hypnotic strategies in a self-directed fashion and that's probably where more time is spent that than any of the other parts the inherent thought is that self hypnosis is is is possible and practicing it helps enhance hypnotizability and responsiveness it's possible however that the enhancement in hypnotizability results from a wide range of different things but since its initial hourong format was proposed um there's there's been a 10-minute version and a 4minute version of the culton skills training program that have been used with with no loss of Effectiveness so um in contrast to hetero hypnosis self hypnosis promotes the notion that hypnosis is a skill to be practiced it encourages patients and participants to engage in hypnosis outside of the clinic it permits skill development but importantly your clients get more responsive as a result of practicing self hypnosis so you know everything that you do with them teaching them how to then take that into and import that into their lives um and practice those skills it means that when they when they return for subsequent sessions within your treatment plan they'll be more respect more responsive more receptive there'll be better hypnotic subjects um and and and this is a tonic for for for what we you know what we do within the the therapeutic environment you know it it's advancing much of what we do um now mindful meditation has achieved um you know a real level of credibility and and popularity and and and acceptance by the public and by professional communities that the field of hypnosis hasn't ever really um I mean Michael ypco suggested that it's you know the image of hypnosis is created by TV and film um I would say um and this is going to make me you know makes me very unpopular and I you know you know I'm worry I'm going to get lynched one day but the the quality of training um in in hypnosis and hypnotherapy um in most Western countries is so dire so abjectly poor that um um you know so many myths and misconceptions are just promoted by hypnotherapy training nonetheless um you know mindfulness has been popularized as as an individual Pro process you know um It's associated with spirituality with religion you know in some corners but it's it's become popular as an individual process that that people can do for themselves by themselves so self hypnosis with its emphasis on independent self-directed uh the nature of hypnosis it could it could represent a pathway to far greater General acceptance as a form of treatment in general um so so for me you know popularizing revitalizing research in the field of self hypnosis having more clinicians teaching their clients self- hypnosis um um um is is an opportunity for all of us to to to potentially create General more General acceptance with with regards to hypnosis and hypnotherapy um um in general terms you know because it it it's no longer giving the impression of someone else doing something to you um you know many of my clients often want to know the difference between self- hypnosis and meditation um meditative techniques tend to emphasize mindfulness and concentration which which shares some parallels in the way in which hypnosis can be conceptualized um self hypnosis has been directly compared in efficacy to um a medit ational relaxation technique for anxiety um you know the the the the Benson um type of process I'm sure you'll all be aware of um you know both forms of treatment were shown to be effective and no real differences in therapeutic effective um um Effectiveness or efficacy were observed now in the early 2000s a researcher called holid drew some parallels between meditation and hypnosis noting that when suggestions for self-enhancing experience are given during mindful meditation it's indistinguishable from hypnosis both neuroscientifically and phenomenologically um but he also noted that both meditators and self- hypnotists experience changes in in imagery vividness um you know he he highlighted phenomenological similarities between meditation and self- hypnosis um and studies you know noted that that they were both associated with alterations in self-awareness sense of time perception but there are potentially some fundamental differences between the two techniques the underlying philosophy of mindfulness often aims to dissuade the meditators from being goal focused in in contrast self- hypnosis is overtly a goal oriented process um now Steven Lyn funny enough you know Mark and I have discussed a paper that Steven Lynn and um Devon tahu and and green um um um published in 2020 and and suggested that hypnosis would be much more widely accepted if more accurate information was disseminated but of particular relevance to the education of hypnosis is this this commonly held myth um that hypnosis is a Trans State induced by a hypnotist and lilan Feld and and colleagues you know wrote something similar um and and and in this sense the person being hypnotized has no control and um um green green who's done lots of research on public perception of hypnosis in in the early 2000s found that 49% of the people that they surveyed were wary of being hypnotized due to the belief that they were going to be relinquishing their free will to the hypnotist and 79% of their participants believe that success of the hypnosis was dependent upon the skill of the hypnotist so the notion of a form of treatment that's effectively self-control and developed as an independent skill you know that's helped launch mindful meditation to the Forefront of the research agenda for example hypnosis could therefore benefit from a greater focus on the self in the process and and and you know I can never understand why more people you know you know can't see that within our field and more people aren't you know don't have the same appetite to go and understand self hypnosis you know in that regard now most evidence and theories indicate you know that self and hetero hypnosis are are much of a muchness phenomenon you know um that you a lot of people argue it's the same phenomenon and you know I've argued that there are benefits to putting the self back into hypnosis um I just want to mention I want to mention the the studies that we're conducting here at Bournemouth University um um on this slide this first slide these are our these are our research booths in the psychology department um the labs uh this is one of our um one of our master's research assist and um um this is us um um in the um uh uh where you have to have your head held still basically this this here is a pupilometer um and and it and this is the software that I have on on my laptop while the the participants are looking at the screen and what this does is it measures the size of their pupils um so um while they're engaging in the the Stroop task now I'm pretty sure you're aware of the the classic Stroop task um this is where subjects um are asked to name the ink color of a colored word um and it was identified by Mr Stroop in 1935 um and and so when subjects respond to the ink color of an in congruent word so that is when the word red is displayed in green ink the subjects usually are much slower and they're less accurate than when they're identifying the ink color of a control item like the word flower in green or even the word Green in green you know you very easily said so so this this is what's referred to as the Stroop interference effect um um that that's slowing down because you're you know you're reading a color of a word and and then attempting to think of and identify a different word um that that's stro interference and it's one of the most thoroughly studied phenomena in attentional research um so so reading is considered to be automatic in the sense that it's it's obligatory and and a reader therefore is unable to withhold accessing a word's meaning even when given in explicit instructions to only focus on the ink color so Studies have shown that the Stroop effect can be substantially reduced following a post hypnotic suggestion for word blindness so it was suggested to the participants that they' perceive the words as if they're meaningless and from a foreign language and this is by amirz and it's been replicated numerous times in numerous different ways and a post hypnotic suggestion for word blindness can be given whilst hypnotized and it remains effective um um while they're completing the Stroop task afterwards now my my um my PhD supervisor and friend and colleague um Ben Paris about 10 years ago showed that maintaining activation of this suggestion is potentially effortful it's resource consuming so therefore um um you know we're building upon that currently and training partis ANS to advance engagement with the hypnotic process could lead to improved performance so we aimed to determine whether it would be possible to further counteract the pervasiveness of word reading by advancing engagement in hypnosis by using by teaching um um um um some of our uh participants our research informed self hypnosis training program um um that was given to the experimental group um and seeing how you know how that affected the the the the their ability on the Stroop task what we also did um um what we also did is is to measure the size of their pupils um um you you can't you can't consciously control the size of your pupils um um you know unless you were to to show yourself horrible pictures of something and and scare yourself even then You' still know that the scare was coming up um but um um so so so it it gives us an indicator of how much effort is being applied um um so you know the the the this can show us how how involuntary how effortful everything is being so we ran um we've run four experiments with um um over over over 500 people now um um I mean interestingly our pilot study um I I asked for for people from my social networks and and got loads and loads of hypnosis Professionals in it who were who were just you know terrible hypnotic subjects um um and and thankfully it was the pilot um but the um you know we showed we showed that the stro interference was the same as with hetero hypnosis but when doing it with self hypnosis they used more effort um we we worked we we only work with medium hypnotizables um people that are are are highly hypnotizable will always respond well to the game anyway so there'll be we won't be able to see a difference and and similarly low hypnotizable so the Stroop response times were were faster um with self hypnosis um our sours ratings went up s o a r s this is a sense of agency rating um that's used in in lots of hypnosis academic research so people's sense of agency you know it felt less involuntary and less effortful when using self hypnosis but the scores were the same you know that their time their response times were the same the reduction in Stroop interference was the same so so despite the sense of agency not changing um um you know effort effort levels were notably higher so we we are in the process of proving um the the distinction um um and so um um our our process our protocol um um if you like involves um um education education of hypnosis primarily a sociocognitive perspective of hypnosis so education um um of um um adopting a hypnotic mindset engaging in um um eye eye fixation um um you know it's not 100% necessary the the the the the hypnotic mindset is usually enough but um um engaging in in eye fixation as a way to Corral the hypnotic mindset um um inducing hypnosis doing uh ACC accounting accounting deepener to where they're absorbing thems within the process and then practicing a range of different types of hypnotic phenomena starting with sticking a pen to your hand um if any of you would like a a road map a free road map um in a PDF format that's very similar to the process we use within our research you can just Google Adam e self hypnosis Road mapap and you can download it I've got it available um on a page on on on on on my college website um um but the the yeah so I mean the process is as simple as that and basically it it we give them a reflective process as well so so each time they're to reflect on what they do um um it's amazing how many people I'm just going to stop sharing my screen just for one moment I've still got a couple more slides to show you but it's amazing this um um how many when we're when we're teaching people to to to have a pen stuck to their hand how many people say to me you know yeah but it's hard it's hard Adam to to you know to to imagine a pen being stuck to my hand and and I say to them well that that's not the hypnotic mindset you know you're doing you know you you're doing self hypnosis um um to your detriment there by saying that and investing your belief in that practice one of the things that we teach a great deal is is automac to to explain um um to explain um um um um that you know that that you just believe this to be your reality you just know it you you you like sain and Co believed in imagining you know you're asking your client just to to make it reality I I always use the example I say to my clients you know if I uh if I let go of this pen right now what do you suppose happens to it um and and usually you know people are quite quick to say that it will fall to the floor um um and and and you know I'll say to them you know of course of course you know it's going to fall to the floor you didn't think for a moment that it was going to fly up into the into the corner of this room and and that's the same mindset we want you to adopt to the hypnotic phenomena you're attempting to achieve you know you you you apply expectation you apply expectation you um apply sense of knowing I believed in imagining you adopt the role and you know it to be your reality and it's and and the more you practice that the more you engage with your beliefs and um you know sometimes sometimes somebody might might drop the pen and I'll say you know we'll reflect afterwards and we'll say you know what did you what did you do um what happened inside your head and some of them say um well you know I um I I knew it wasn't stuck and I said well well that's not the hypnotic mindset you've been taught is it um because you know you're tasked with knowing that it is stuck even if for for for a minute moment so um um we teach some some self some self-deception to to take a sid step um with with W with the weight lifting that I spoke about the top end of of this presentation this evening um um one of the one of the most potent um cognitive strategies for for weight reduction uh for for weight lifting is to to tell someone that there's 100 kilos on the bar when actually there's 110 kilos on the bar and very often they lift it as if there was as if there was a 100 um and are amazed if you tell them afterwards that actually there was 110 on there and and this is a similar kind of deception um yet we're we're seeking to to create it to to make believe in our own minds and lots of people say well you know um um um um you know I um uh I you know they kind of oscillate and and have have that that self-deception for for brief moments here and there um um and that's absolutely fine because you you you become more familiar with it you start to know it starts to become easier easier to to to understand now let me just there's a couple of couple more things I just want to mention and then we'll so the the potential reduction in the experience of involuntariness in self hypnosis without kind of con current modification of its Effectiveness it's a challenge to theories of hypnosis that have involuntariness as a foundational experience okay um now while there has been a substantial amount of research into the neural correlates of of hetero hypnosis there's only ever been one one study and it's and it's a case study on neurophysiological mechanisms of self hypnosis that's a a study by burkel and colleagues in4 five and that that's the reason that that this presentation you know some of you may have been hoping for some neurophysiological information here but that there's a real lack of research on the neural correlates of self hypnosis um and and and it's not known if self hypnosis is neurophysiologically unique or if it is similar to hetero hypnosis as I mentioned you know very early on this evening given that the latest APA definition of hypn nois doesn't specifically mention self hypnosis even though it can account for it you know perhaps now is the time for researchers to explore self hypnosis in order to to provide evidence to reconsider existing definitions so that they can account for self hypnosis regardless of whether it's deemed to be a a wholly separate entity or a component part of of hetero hypnosis if evidence suggests that self- hypnosis involves a different sense of agency involving more valtion then this needs to be taken into account for example the current evidence tends to suggest that self hypnosis is CL clinically as effective as hetoh hypnosis but it's potentially phenomenologically different so you know you want to let your clients know that you know if they're expecting to have the same experiences at home um using self hypnosis to the ones that you are giving them in the the therapeutic room that's going to be a misleading expectation may lead them to think that they are failing so so so you know make that clear make that apparent you know phenomenologically your experience with self hypnosis will be different when you get home and that's perfectly okay you know um um um and and and you know that that will give them encouragement to to practice um and to not make comparisons self hypnosis potentially provides us with an opportunity to change the commonly held View that hypnosis involves giving up control to another um a perception that I think has lightly caused a barrier for the uptake of hypnosis in clinical settings um you know that that and poor quality training um despite strong evidence for for the efficacy of hypnosis you know the added potential benefits for of self- hypnosis are of course for selfefficacy um you know perceiving suggest ability is a skill to be developed you know um um seem to provide strong motivation for the continued application and the study of self hypnosis self- hypnosis you know should be a self-induced self-directed self-regulated experience without the need for verbal direction from another person in in any way you know and that includes audios I I don't officially think the audios can be classed as self- hypnosis but you know that there are academics out there who think that that that I shouldn't be saying that um it's it's a larger debate and this involves using one's own cognitions and mental imagery to communicate with oneself in a goal oriented way with a positive expectant attitude with all the benefits and perceived self-efficacy that that brings so there's some more discussions you know um um those are the kind of things that I think will really need to be informing your clinical practice when you are teaching your clients self hypnosis um um I think Mark just gave a link um you know the the the self hypnosis road map um on my 20 minute crash course video on my YouTube channel uh my science of self hypnosis book I'm going to be disseminating real de detailed research findings at the UK hypnosis convention uh the main reason I'll be doing that to you know a complete disclosure and transparency on I own the UK hypnosis convention um and run it so it makes sense for me to to make a big play on that and you know um if you want to ask me anything um um outside of of of this webinar you're very welcome I'm very accessible um I'm very easy to find it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get a response from me that quickly um so I stopped sharing um um so um I'll probably I'll probably leave it there and then start asking we can start dealing with some questions shall we yeah that was that just fabulous fabulous Adam I'm so uh to see your focus on selfefficacy through all of this I think it's really really interesting and something we we're very very aligned I I hope everybody recognized I just pick up could I just pick just when I when I had when I had my slides off I saw that comment just just come in then uh where tamson had said that's dangerous um and I wanted to I wanted to reply to that straight away um you know you know the the notion of um um the notion of self-deception and deceiving ourselves um um on purpose um may seem may seem dangerous but and it may also seem quite quite challenging and difficult thing to do yet is happening automatically if you look at the heart of a great many therapeutic issues that we're seeing our clients for so say for example somebody comes and sees me for for for because they have they've developed a an irrational fear of dogs they they have a they have a phobia of dogs and they're walking through a park one day and they see somebody walking um I'm a very friendly looking lovely dog off in the Horizon um now what starts to happen with this person that that they're automatically their automatic response they start to adopt the role of of of phobic they begin to believe in what they are imagining very often imagining dogs biting them or fearful things happening they start to have a certain degree of expectancy um and basically they're doing all the things that that I've been talking to about doing but but but they they' developed them naturally in a in a detrimental negative fashion and ultimately what we're seeking to do is use those exact same parameters that exist and occur very naturally in corralling them on purpose to great effect so I I know that the the term self-deception can can sound can sound dangerous yeah and and and has a sense of Jeopardy to it but we are doing the self-deception on purpose and ultimately with some ethics and ultimately with our own well-being in mind um so I I hope I've well I've attempted to to assure you there um that that even though it can be um um oh dangerous Fe the weightlifting yeah yeah I should have asked you about the question before I went into it first of all shouldn't I yeah that'll serve me right okay and there's some Studies by platonov of course on that um which I'm sure you remember yeah I'm not sure how much to believe every everything there in the in the platoff book and how solid that is but it's quite impressive yeah I mean I mean hourong full sensory deprived induction processes um um of you know fairly probably not quite as importable uh to to to the weightlifting environment as as our self- hypnosis protocols but his ideas there on on overcoming fatigue by basically telling the person it's 10 times lighter and then 10 times lighter and the the person's lifting the weight just I mean surely the muscle getting damaged there I would have think but anyway uh you must have been looked into I imagine yeah yeah instead of Doms you have MS yeah so instead of like delayed onset muscle soreness when we're weightlifting we you often get delayed onset muscle soreness which is Doms um and we take great pride in in having Doms when we're weightlifting um but yeah yeah in in his case with the repeated it's getting lighter it's getting lighter it's getting lighter you would get Ms you would just get immediate muscle soreness yeah interesting so um let's come to some of the questions here um and I'm going to come up with some of M yeah you select them you select the ones well I'm just going to pill out with the one Here Deborah says you say that experience of self- hypnosis will be different to being hypnotized in session by a therapist what if the client self- hypnotizes in session with a therapist yeah well you know um um um absolutely I think that's um you know and typically that's that that's where the vast majority of self- hypnosis gets taught in that context and within that framework so um you know you get the opportunity um um you get the opportunity to to to you know that the client gets the opportunity to do some trial and error to practice there and and so on so you know it makes absolute sense um um um you know some of the early research does tend to suggest that when it's when it's um you know good instruction whether it's verbal or written um um and the self hypnosis is happens before the hetero um it it enriches the hetero hypnosis experience however um some people's way of working doesn't doesn't permit that the structure of sessions doesn't always permit that so it doesn't have to be rigid um um you know um it can be fine I think one of my challenges um is that when hetero hypnosis occurs as a precursor people typically tend to dip into that experience rather than be rather than really self self-directing self-regulating and creating something you know that's that's of their own creation and unique um and also make unfavorable comparisons between their hetero hypnosis experience where they haven't had to work very hard they've just kind of been spook Mo fed a lovely experience and and then find it quite defeating if they're not able to recreate that exactly um which which which is an unrealistic expectation but this aspect of using hetro and then returning it back to the client I think is you know Peter warwell talked about that you know they they have to give us control to trust to a certain extent and and then and then and then we tell them they're taking control yeah absolutely absolutely and and um you know showing someone that you trust them enough um for them to take the lead um you know I mean Kevin mcon who who I've um he's an Australian self hypnosis researcher since since the 1980s um um he he's been I've been Consulting with him on on some some stuff that we're doing and um you know he he's um um um you know he's he's he's really big on this idea of um um you know he says that that you that the vast majority of people are taught are taught self hypnosis in a clinical environment they experience it and um um it's it's you know it's being created in a way in which um um um yeah I totally lost my thread there what what tell me what you just said well I'm trying to read the questions here and come back to it we were talking about the idea of um trust and that they got a yeah yeah handing it back to them turn it back to them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah handing it back to them so um yeah I made the I made the mistake then of answering and reading something I need to turn the chat box off um um yeah yeah yeah so so handing it handing it back to them you know the the that trust is is something you know Kevin makoni says um um it's really important and and also you know that that um that that that mechanism um um of of of them then you know trusting themselves and being able to develop and and develop the state for themselves puts puts a whole new um a whole new Dynamic on it and something that um I I didn't really have time to cover this evening is that you know there's a lot of interest currently in in measuring hypnotizability and of course the the the the discussion would be you know how do we measure self hypnotizability and um yeah I mean this a it's a full webinar for another day you know um but it's a very hop Topic in academic circles currently um you know that the hypnotizability needs to change the way in which it's being measured um there's a question here from uh I'm going to pick one up about where is it about dyslexia uh has your research included a cohort of dyslexic participants or whether you want want to comment at all on doing hypnosis or self hypnosis with uh well I mean I don't know if you meant with regards to things like Stroop but um you know people people that have had dyslexia um will have an unfair advantage of doing the it would be like it's like me taking my taking my glasses off um you know I I would be I'm better at I I would make because if you're not reading the word correctly um um that then there's no interference of of that word um so um um it hasn't Andrea no my our research has not included that um it would be very it would be very interesting to see how to see how you know dyslexic participants would would get on um um yeah absolutely you know without a doubt it would be interesting and um um to see to see that but but you know sadly sadly no it hasn't um there's there's so many things I would love to include and and research and so little time but I'm just what drawing on your knowledge base which is extensive and impressive I have to say on the reverse of that rather than suggesting that it's hieroglyphics with is there anything in terms of using suggestion with dyslexics to suggest that actually it's not hieroglyphic that's it's easier to read and then respons I mean sadly sadly there there's no such thing at the moment um at least at least not that I'm aware of and you know I've I've had to painstakingly review the literature um so you know but but that line of inquiry um you know what a brilliant idea reverse droop what a brilliant idea you know do a reverse troop Andrea that's you know that's that that that's there for for you to go and Pioneer I think you know um giving somebody suggestions that that words begin to formulate effectively um you know I it sounds sounds ridiculously simple but the word blindness suggestion is ridiculously simple yeah and um yeah just and the implications of strip I think are really interesting in terms of derailing an automatic process and that you know so much of what we suffer from is our automatic processes so the ability noes to derail automatic Pro elements of automatic processes very interesting very yeah well I know you know I mean I know that you're a real fan of of of of awareness training and and you know making people so aware of themselves that they do Center they do decentralize rigid rigid trains of thought and feeling and so on and and there's some very similar Notions to be had there for sure gosh there's too many threads we go down I want to come back to one from Natalie M here which is a lovely one here she says I wonder if Adam thinks that most of us hypnotize ourselves often into various types of self-belief myths or fears without even realizing it yeah so [Music] um I'm I'm a bit begrudging sometimes of this whole idea of natural natural trances you know that that people talk about us us always being in some kind of um um hypnosis because I think that hypnosis is is is more specific that than just a naturally occurring type of Ty accidental type of process I I think that that's something slightly different that's going on however I think I think you make a really really valid point in terms of a lot of the mechanisms that make random beliefs uh uh so you know so effective um um and and become so sticky and and so implanted um a very similar mechanisms to those at the heart of to those at the heart of of what we you know what we're teaching as far as self- hypnosis is concerned so it makes absolute sense to say without a doubt there's some hypnotic some self-hypnotic influence in that you know um um such as the example I gave earlier with with the the recycling of of of phobic responses there's a lot of very similar self- hypnotic characteristics and parallels to be to be drawn there so you know I I think you make a really good point um um um all of that said I like to distance um myself from this idea of of of daily chers because I think um um um um hypnosis when done correctly is is is is is specifically a different characteristic to something that that naturally happens although we can we can harness much of what naturally happens laser beam in on it and turn it into hypnosis well I think that that that idea of taking you know the negative self hypnosis automatic negative self- hypnosis concept from arars and then using that as a way to show the client they're already really good at it you know look at exactly exactly and and you know being able to show people um um that you know how powerful they're already doing the stuff you're asking them to do um is a great resource you know your problem is a massive resource yeah yeah you're already really good at you're an expert in this yeah Sue Sue ask here she says can you possibly talk us through then your your protocol using self- hypnosis for a firsttime client who has contacted you with general anxiety disorder that's quite a big topic so so yeah I I mean I I probably wouldn't you know the the the self hypnosis protocol isn't um isn't it isn't a clinical um application it's it's a protocol for for somebody to to develop self hypnosis so the protocol itself is a framework and when we initially teach it we teach we teach um people to practice a range of hypnotic phenomena but but where we teach the hypnotic phenomena within the protocol is where you would insert your your anxiety um um types of processes so you know self hypnosis primarily we'll be using in an adjunctive capacity so make it as part of um your your your treatment plan you know an inherent part of your treatment plan and so the protocol is is is is really teaching a a set of very very logic steps on the back of you know a hypnotic mindset where you are appropriately motivated have uh you know a good level of um expectancy where you're you know engaging in a little bit of self-deception to to believe that things are going to happen um automatically by themselves um where you are adopting the role and um you know you you are assuming responsibility for the effectiveness of hypnosis and so on and so having educated them in that I talk to them about a skill you know that hypnosis is going to be a really cool skill that you're going to be able to take away with you and um um you know and talk them through eye fixation you know so this mindset we've just been talking about pull it all together in your mind while you fix upon the spot on the wall of the ceiling you know balance your head follow your eyes up fatigue your eyelid so imagine them getting heavier you know believe it to be true when they close um um absorb yourself within that process um um and we give we give some strategies for doing that I I don't like too much of the use of the word deepener um and deep because I think a lot of people are um correlate depth with being zonked out and and I don't want them to be zonked out we want them to be an active agent in the process um so you know eyes closed dribbling down themselves listening to whale music is is is not ideal for for good quality active alert um um self hypnosis so um absorbing themselves becoming more focused sometimes even using dissociation as a kind of as a kind of you know absorption process like stoic meditation you know View from Above type of thing um and then to engage you know use all of that that you've created to practice hypnotic skills such as you know sticking your your hand to the table sticking a pen um or or you know Stanford Stanford or we use susic waterl scale of hypnotizability swash and the items that are in there things like um imagining um um imagining uh a um a fly landing on the back of your hand um audio hallucina um hallucinations a wide range of different types of hypnotic phenomena that people people practice and practice and practice and and bring themselves out of hypnosis I know there was a question there was a question earlier on before you go there I just want to say so maybe for Dad instead of saying your your pen hand stuck to the pen or the pen stuck to your hand you might say for 10 minutes now you're stuck in the present moment and having a good time just relaxing yeah I mean um you know absolutely you know Michael Heap um Michael Heap mentioned you know that you give yourself suggestions for arm catalepsy to to disable yourself from um smoking a cigarette you know um um but yeah so so you know you could then um whatever your whatever your your therapeutic interventions or whatever the component parts of your treatment plan for anxiety are you could you know hand that over to them to use within the framework of the protocol you know so you you you ramp up the the you know the potency of of whatever the treatment plan um intervention is and you know there's there's some fairly good evidence that suggests hypnosis makes you know a lot of CBT processes more effective um um so you know doing it within doing the CBT processes or the you know whatever anxiety protocols you're working with within the vehicle of self hypnosis becomes something that they then take away and start working on at home yeah um you know I I again it's one of those things Sue um that that it would probably you know it's it's a it's a it's a fairly lengthy it's a fairly lengthy discussion to give you a satisfactory exhaustive answer with that I'm sorry to say you know I'd love to be able to spend um a couple of hours really getting into that with you um but hopefully I've given you a kind of a good snippet of that there's a question there about maybe that was one you going for Simona what if the client's experience of self hypnosis isn't a positive one and they feel they failed in their attempt isn't that risky in terms of their self-belief yeah but you know you know you don't um um there is no failure there's no black and white here it's gradations it's Shades of Gray um um everybody you know you don't turn up to to guitar lesson and get really pissed off because you haven't you know done a rack man and off Concerto in your first lesson or perfectly excuse my um uh uh excuse my lack of guitarist knowledge there um um you know you wouldn't turn up and expect to be um amazing at playing a guitar in your first lesson and so you know as if we can if we can create the correct expectation with you know by practicing the skills there's you know if somebody's if somebody has a go at doing the pen and and the pen drops you know we both we we don't both sit there and say ah you've messed that up um um you know instead we'll be will be much more inclined to set to to to to inquire to be curious and to to be interested okay what's going on what's going on what's going on within you right now um and and part of our role like I said earlier on part of our role as a hypnotherapist really needs to be um you know a coach a a trainer of of to to train our clients to be good receptive hypnotic subjects to show them and to understand them and to to pick at the nuts and bolts of what their um organizational experience was then so so so let's get interested in what you were doing what were you saying um uh you know it's not something that that works or doesn't it's it it's a process of skill that that will raise and and you're quite right to mention that that it can it can dampen their self-belief but part of our role is to help you know work out ways of raising raising that self-belief raising that self-belief and also doing our best to inoculate um um um unrealistic expectations doing our best to inoculate from this idea of success or failure because there isn't that there is only learning there's only learning about how to get better you know um um drop the pen a thousand times we we'll work out how to how to get there you know or or or we'll do something other than uh the pen you know do something that that is going to be effective um I I do this um I do this really lovely process um at least I think it's lovely uh with people sometimes instead of some of the idiot responses we do a process um of of of being really mindful within the self hypnosis deepener tuning into one's own heart rate and then um and tuning into the pulse and Imagining the pulse jumping from one finger to another and uh when we get people with their fingers on their laps you know kind of fizzing and popping away um It's A really lovely exercise um and they become you know and so so getting them interested and having some fun and not letting it be black and white onof success failure and letting it and creating healthy levels of realistic expectation um which is something we do with hetero hypnosis as well hopefully you you are yeah I there's something really interesting in that that I've always felt Adam and is that in a way one could create a whole Psychotherapy just about learning self- hypnosis in other words it will tackle some of the issues of black and white thinking for example yeah and getting self down and getting down ourselves mustage all these things actually get revealed in learning self hypnosis well you know um yeah you're you're quite right by the way Kevin mcon Okay Kevin mcon thing was was um um that that he says he teaches self- hypnosis uh but that instead of doing inductions instead of doing inductions with his clients he says to them um um take yourself into hypnosis and then he takes over with the hetero hypnosis so so he he says that that he you know um um um hypnotherapists ought to teach their clients how to be effective enough at self- hypnosis that we don't have to do the induction that they can do it and we can take over the the mantle of that I'm sorry to be so so random and see that's okay that's okay let's troubled me earlier that's all right getting old a thought Pops in um a couple of questions from G let's see if we can cover these both at once because they've been sitting here a while what's the minimum requirements for successful self hypnosis separate from the personal aspects that individuals may adopt I'm assuring there is a framework otherwise it may not be as effective and then his second question is if self hypnosis create were blindness High effective is it in creating synesthesia yeah I mean um um synesthesia I mean a wide range of um a wide range of um delusions um there's a very prolific and Brilliant researcher in Australia Lady by the name of Amanda barer who um um among a wide range of different types of delusion um um hypnotic phenomena but one of the one of the beautiful things about hypnosis is that you get to to to model delusion because in research it's very it's very hard hard to get ethics to work with people that have real delusions so being able to create um recreate delusions using hypnosis and study what's happening in the brain it makes hypnosis a very useful exploratory tool but but Amanda barer has done a wide range of different studies um um um creating hypnotic um um hypnotic delusions including um um making believe that you are um um um the opposite sex and she does something called mirrored self- misidentification whereby you look into um you look into the mirror um um you're hypnotized to believe that you're going to see someone else you open your eyes and you see someone else um and we do we do that with self hypnosis um on my self hypnosis seminars um but we also you know so the the the rationale for for doing a number of those different things um I think I think Mark probably would have would have told you all about um Irving kers one of the the things that Irving kers did where they they told people they were going to hallucinate the color red and purposely pumped Pumped red light into the room um as a bit of a parlot trick and then later and the people that had the artificial light pumped in were better at hallucinating Red without the light later on so um you know the the the capacity to be able to do something you know to do things in line such as synesthesia um certainly the principles are there there's there's um there's a couple of studies that I can't think of off the top of my head where where where which I recall very briefly but but there's not a big body of research on it but but your line of inquiry makes absolute sense and the first half of that that question was something minimum requirements what's the minimum requirements for successful hypnosis separate from the personal aspects that individuals may adopt I'm uring there is a framework otherwise it may not be as effective yeah I mean there needs to be a certain number of um yeah very yeah yeah very good Simon um but yeah no I think um um um you know I think um you know there needs to be you know a minimum number of practice uh um sessions that are conducted um and conducted in a particular way um is that what you meant by minimum requirements yeah I think it was that I did feel it was a little you want to pop that in there Gareth in a moment that that might be good just with regards to that little quip there by Simon um um all hypnosis is stage hypnosis um you know um um it's funny because some of the some of the parlot trickery May sometimes seem to be lacking in ethics but you know anything that can be used to leverage one's own ability to self deceive and and and invest belief you know is is is amazingly powerful um yeah yeah I did want to comment by the way on the um the the Cur yeah we do talk about that in the course and it's so interesting but Devin tahun told me that wasn't replicated in his experimental hypnosis course so I was a bit oh really which which one the uh the the red light and the green light and the oh right oh really right and they used them in another one they used some bio feedback monitors apparently where um um um Irving told me that you know that they showed them all the um the the a biof feedback Monitor and and when they were hypnotized um asked them to open their eyes and said to them look you know this this shows that you're doing really well you're really deeply hypnotized you can close your eyes again now and and and the the monitors read the same for everyone you know they were they were yeah yeah which um um but those people went on to be to be much more responsive and better hypnotic subject doesn't your online hypnosis shop have a line in those monitors that you said yeah not yet um I'm going to drop a question in here because time is sticking by and it's been one of the ones I really wanted to talk about a little bit about you know you mentioned Lynn and others published um that paper uh they made these now sort of 17 points about what hypnosis isn't to whatever and this the one point there which kind of like oh I kept me to asking about was saying you know this idea that hypnosis focused attention and and there seemed to be just one study that sort of went against that and I was a bit I wasn't sure about that and I want to just point into that idea of focused attention because again what's implied in so many of these things that this focused attention is Just Happening like this as if it's a state that's rigid and this idea that rather it's a proportional allocation of attention more to primary processes we might call it rather than higher order thoughts Etc so that this idea of the relative proportion of attention to different aspects of experience is Shifting and that's really what hypn is about is just shifting things towards that direction you're not checking on your own agency quite as much so you experience it as a bit more involuntary but you could and the attention is flicking back and forth I use we talked about cabic eye movements the point being that those interal shifts could be 10 10th of a second or fifth of a second um and and aren't necessarily you're not necessarily aware of making them but they construct our experience so instead of a a system becoming you know a subsystem becoming disassociated it's actually that just that we're not just flicking the attention back there quite as much as we would normally does that make does that yeah absolutely it does and one of the things I think that that self hypnosis um that self hypnosis does is um um it gives it gives a really safe safe environment um for for that to happen for for for that to for that to occur for people actually to to for their their attention their sense of agency to to to to tolit um um yeah and and to be to to be organized and to be disorganized you know um because you mentioned about you know even for a brief moment having this experence and the point is really is to collect more of the brief moments and string absolutely instead of instead of discarding the brief moment exactly you know if you edit your internal reality you know you know and and if you can recognize you know in that moment that was you know I I had something there and recognize that and filter your reality in a favorable way rather than you know thinking you know not recognizing it you know I tell people people even if it's just for a brief moment and you recognize that occurring then what a success we've had um um and and and you know it'd be very difficult to follow the process adopt a hypnotic mindset and not have a brief moment you know it would be very difficult they'd have to be doing something really really wrong not listening to you you know or or you weren't connecting it properly um so yeah yeah because I the connection with it you know rather than feedback and constantly monitoring what's happening it's more like setting your cruise control and you just notice when you get to 50 miles an hour and you disregard the other information feed forward system yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you know um um you know I'm a little bit I'm a little behind you on on knowledge with that particular that particular approach um um but but it it makes absolute sense um um you know it makes absolute sense and I think um um yeah you know some of the some of the dots I'll go and spend some time joining up um as a result of the the prolific WhatsApp uh uh selling of this notion that you gave me this week let's come sort of some of the other questions here I think we had a little bit earlier remember hi Colin by the way hi Colin remembering the fun of pins through the skin Oh doing your self hypnos Workshop there where you some right yes yeah yeah permission from the local Authority for people to pierce themselves is that right um good I if there's any questions we missed in here um Ian there was some ones I put in there but that's okay I've been talking a lot um you know one of the ideas I'll drop in here Adam is that also you know we we're doing like very interesting with Don me bound he's decided to record his legacy course with us which is very exciting wow yeah cool it's very cool and we just get on very well but his idea that we are homon narens that we are storytellers you know and the way we experience ourselves in the world is to a high degree a result of the stories we tell ourselves and tell others and then the use of hypnosis and then self hypnosis to start to change that narrative I think that's a I I just I just find that a really it's kind of the hypnotic script AB the new story absolutely you know I I I think there's a lot of Merit in in the idea of you know narratives as a form of as a form of self-hypnotic communication you know especially because again you know if we were to draw some parallels in terms of you know the the the belief that's invested in them the fact that they engage our imagination the fact that you know we we expect and we have you know a lot of flavor um and characteristic attached to it um again you know that it's a very it's a very powerful force um and they're very playable uh you know you know hypnosis is rep you know repetition is Hypnotic repetition is Hypnotic uh and so you know you know replaying