Defying the Narrative: FriendlyJordies | Comedy, Politics & Self-Help | Straight Talk | Mark Bouris transcript

I'm Mike Boris and this is straight talk I don't care at all who fire bombs my house I have no interest in that I have no ill will towards them but I [ __ ] hate journalists hello Australia if you Stripped Away acting comedy if you Stripped Away political commentary at the end of the day it's all performing and I've always been fascinated with how do you get your idea into somebody else's head we got Jordan Shanks over here versus mainstream media they don't like you you're an upstart Savage political commentator controversial friendly Jord I think that when I'm saying something I'm saying it at the very least because I truly genuinely believe that it'll be better for either the individual or Society obviously we've done some extremely dangerous reporting I'm being sued by the deputy premier of New South Wales there's risk associated with these views I mean that's pretty heavy getting your [ __ ] house fire B do you have any idea who might have done it I mean look Jordan Shanks welcome to Straight Talk mate thanks very much for coming in no worries appreciate it a lot thanks for the invite is this a sort of do you do this much no I'm I don't like doing podcasts normally yeah well I don't know some look I the reason I went on yours is because I watched a couple of your epodes and I thought this is pretty decent this is a good one which one you you listen to you got one in mind which ones did I watch watch now cuz like there was flex no not flex f I can say you're a flex boy I mean obviously I've watched the spion one I watched the Will Anderson one yeah yeah Will's good um and OB and what was the other one mirck wat yeah mer yeah he's cool but it's actually interesting those comedians they they have a darker side to them not a darker side but a complex side to them yes you know butan they're not funny bastards all the time are but they can be but some of us Performance Based but they have a complexity associated with them and I'm getting the same feeling from you I mean there's a complexity around Jordan Shanks I think and I actually and I and if you don't mind just go with it a little bit because I know you don't like doing podcast we just go a little bit I just want to sort of dig it a little bit if you don't mind so I want to know how how old are you which what's your age range know where do you fit 20 to 30 yeah that would be by my yeah what's what's the demo breakdown I'd be in the 25 to 35 market right so you're that's your Market okay and then and and and your YouTube audience is that the same in the same category do you think you're feeding into that market is that who you are talking to that and Zoomers that's mostly that's that's the breakdown yeah yeah so do do you target them because do you do you target them or do you just or they they just following you so no they just talk because you know it's I I really feel like a lot of the the whole demo breakdown of oh you know you need to be hitting this person I really feel like that those people are just going to naturally be attracted to you because they're similar to you yeah yeah that's so I don't even think about so they're following you as opposed to you chasing them which is most they want to know what Jordan's got to say yes so let me just go back a bit then What's your deal like you you got a mom and dad like I'm always got a mom and dad but you they together did you come from a you know or you just got bored by single mom you know like we know about what what's going on in your life you know because it's all over the various search engines about what's going life firebombed and all that sort of stuff but like what about going back a bit like you know what actually uh it it really did strike a cord with me when I was listening to your podcast I heard Will Anderson I think he was talking about going to a billy Conley show if I correct and he was watching Billy Conley on stage and he thought I can do that I had that exact thought watching Will Anderson really yes that exact thought as a comic as as a comic as a comedian I was watching an episode of The Glass House and something clicked in my head and I thought I can do that how long so that was really strange to me anyway when I heard that how long go that was when I was 15 wow yeah so I think anyway I could at that range yeah to 16 don't matter yeah yeah it doesn't matter were you a student like you a studious kid again something clicked I think in year 11 before that it was just a drop KCK that just played video games and you know just threw water bombs and and I think just uh when when I hit like yeah I think it was year 11 something just clicked in my head and I thought like damn I'm like if I keep going down this trajectory something bad is going to happen so I started studying and you picked up I picked up on game so where didd you go to school in Sydney Sydney boy no yeah I'm a Sydney boy I went to New Town High Newtown High yeah so you you come from working class sort of folks you weren't sort of sent to you didn't go to new Eng well D not even working class Loom and proletariat I reckon like my mom was on a Disability Pension I lived with her most of the time uh and then eventually yeah I suppose then I had a workingclass background because then I moved in with my dad and he was he was a builder you know so yeah doing his best yeah and so when did you have aspiration go to UNI yeah yeah definitely and did you yes yes I did what you stud I studied politics and learned nothing but University not supposed to teach you anything it's supposed to teach you how to learn not it doesn't actually teach you to learn anything that's my view like University is about how do you learn things what do you think you got out of University education absolutely nothing until I went to Korea because you had to go overseas somewhere for a year like a internship type thing yeah yeah well like a just I don't know it it was like a it was International politics so you had to go look at politics internationally so you had to go somewhere for a year I went to Korea because it was cheap South Korea South Korea yeah I mean I wish but it's kind of hard to get a go back I went in I went in there and uh that guy because it was Korea and they didn't understand the English faculty at all he moved from Canada because he realized that the way that politics was taught in University there was completely restrictive and so he went to Korea where they didn't understand what he was teaching and then I learned how politics works there did you end up as a chief of staff or part of a staff of any political organization here or did you end up in in in a as a political correspondent or as spying political correspondent which is like the top of the tree when it comes to newspapers you end up doing any of those things no I wasn't interested I mean I was interested in politics but I wanted to get into comedy so I went down that path and I I I I I kept I kept a breast of politics but I was never thinking oh I'm going to become a bureaucrat that's my dream in life you but but you come across is pretty [ __ ] articulate like uh you're pretty smart I will than thank you no but yeah are I mean that's the vi and getting no you're very much in control of your what you say you're quite purposeful but composed Che that's a very nice compliment no but you are you're very composed I mean even when you're on a rant I'm seen some of you some of your there some videos but I don't know if they coming out of one of your YouTube shows or what but where you're having a crack at people particular in particular journalists and we'll talk about that one particular journalist in a moment common common crack but but your your your ability and I don't I want to know where hell this come from but your ability to in a very composed way be quite inflammatory and use inflammatory language and I don't mean that in a [ __ ] way I mean good inflammatory Lang language it's colorful it's good I liked it not a lot of people would but I liked it not people in my category wouldn't like it older people don't like it but I liked it you didn't hold back but at the same time you get you managed not to get muddled up where does that skill come from that's a skill yeah look I think I was born with the gift of the gab was more I always noticed that I have that Ace in the Hole that was always the way of getting out of situations that was the way of making light of some uh situation to get out of like getting bashed I was able to do that I was able to just you know as you can clearly see I can use it to bully like like that's my tool I I like the written word but it's so poised and well purposed and word by word it's it's quite efficient too it's nearly like it's been written for when you're reading off a teleprompter to me that's what it looks like to me well sometimes they do no but in the car when you're sitting in the car and you're just recording something on your phone H that's that's a hard thing to you're only young it's a hard thing to achieve that that's not easy I mean I know actors who can't do that um and I've been around doing this game for you know I'm pretty [ __ ] old and I I would find it difficult um especially when I'm fired up are you able to quell the fire and make sure that the fire doesn't overtake the words and the the message you're trying to give to whoever it is you're attacking not attacking but you're talking to now that you mention it yes I've never really thought about that before but that is a combination of a few natural gifts that I had at a very young age and I think I understood just like how basically every self-help book ever tells you I think I naturally understood at a young age that you should be going down the path of your strengths so it is a combination of the fact that I've read a lot of books about subjects that would be around that area so State Management Theater comedy writing all of that but I think that I was also born with it so you actually studi these methodologies oh yeah that's what I did in University actually most of the time when I should have been studying politics I was in the uh Library studying comedic Theory or mostly actually comedic theory in uh University CU I remember reading a stat that if you read 50 books in an area you've got a PhD in it so I did that so comedic Theory sounds to me like a way of controlling a crowd via your narrative oh yeah that's an element nberg rally up but I don't want to go into territory but I know that could get a little bit sort of out of there but you know but you know what I'm saying like uh it's crowd control oh yeah you got you bring the audience with you yes and you got to watch where they're going and where it's taking you to it's easy when you got an audience actual physical audience when you don't have an audience just looking at a a camera it's a bit different a bit harder but do you think you know how to manage the audience to the outcome that you think is important yes I think I can do that and I think that that is a skill that takes years and I think that every year you can see that you get better at it but you do realize after a while that comedy is in fact I would say that acting is as well there's a con man element to it you know or like a Carnival Barker there's you know what I'm saying there's but that conmen have that same ability don't they to kind of just change people's emotions the way they yes they talk [ __ ] yes but it's that same thing of just like State emotion you're supposed to feel this way another way of saying it I suppose is a magic act yeah yeah that's another way a nicer way of putting it would be so you know like I don't want to get go down the stories but like it's nearly like convincing people that the oil that you're going to sell them is going to make them live longer it's that ability that's the ability you have do you get to a point where you feel as [ __ ] hang on am I being responsible in relation to the skill that I have do you ever get to that point where you challenge yourself no Evan no no because the thing is when I look at it I realize that when I see a bunch of other people trying to get a message across I just see people that have a lack of skill in the ability of getting the message off and I think it is just because of that I think everybody's heard it at this point but the whole point of communication is 7% words and the other 93% is body language and tonality I think a lot of people just don't think about that and it's like if you want people to hear you out you need to bring them along with you so I just see it as this is part of communication and I've always been fascinated with that how do you get your idea into somebody else's head and I think that I am always doing a lot of research on what I say before I say it so I think that when I'm saying something I'm saying it at the very least because I TR truly genuinely believe that it'll be better for either the individual or Society because that's pretty much all I ever do these days now is pretty much I mean I still do comedy videos and I still do nice little fun ones but mostly it's either this is going to be something of benefit for society or I've got my self-help Channel which is this is going to be of benefit to you and that's what I'm interested in I'm not really interested in like bamboozling people you know like it's it's not a motivator for me it's another skill you have and you probably not even realize it but how important you think is the timber of your voice to the convincibility of what you got to say I'm aware of it I think that's it it's just I I think I know that how some people are gifted in mathematics some people are gifted in running I think that I'm gifted in performing I think that's the core of all of it I think that if you really stripped it away if you Stripped Away acting if you Stripped Away comedy if you Stripped Away uh political commentary at the end of the day it's all performing it's all talking to an audience I think I'm good at that as an orator as an orator yeah and and I had I had one of someone who I believe to be one of the best orators in the country but honest but his content is very specific that was Bob Bob K you sitting there Bob oh yeah but wonderful voice oh yeah he's got a great voice wonderful Timber to his voice um in fact quite surprising when you hear it when you sort of sit with him and his content doesn't always suit everybody but but he's quite engaging because you sort of get mesmerized by his voice and he has a a great body language too different to yours but a great body language and for those and a lot of people listen to these sorts of podcasts and they're trying to learn something from it you know so I mean what I try to do is what I'm trying to do here is sort of get pointed for people um voice is important what do you mean by body language when it comes to body language look I don't really because most of it's all just this yeah but I can see your hands but I can see your face I can see your eyes yes yes that's what yes just that though but I in terms of my actual body that's something that I've never developed I think that I have a very Goblin crotchety way of naturally sitting it's it's terrible and I should go and develop that that's always been something in the back of my head but in terms of facial expressions uh I've read a lot of books on facial expressions and I think that that's just something that you need to be very acquainted with again I think that if you if you are trying trying to get a message across to somebody else I mean look there's an old saying in radio that if you aren't smiling when you're talking don't be on air these basic things I think people just don't understand but then obviously there's points where you don't want to be Smiley and happy and jokey and so you have to change your facial expression I don't know it's just like the these are things that I think people because they aren't trying to perform they're just going through day-to-day life and they're feeling their emotions as they come they don't think about those things they're tactical and I kind of yes it's tactical I kind of do Envy them in a way because I think that when you do get to the stage where you are just a professional performer like every part of your emotions and faces are always very too conscious everything's a bit manufactured I think that's what happens after a while but you know that's the price of the beers it's like everything else this camera that's on you at the moment is sort of only going from the from sort of your chest up sort of thing right so seeing your hand seeing your face but if the camera could show your whole body I see two parts and I see I I see Jordan the performer at the top Yeah The Voice the face the eyes the hands but below if the camera could just [ __ ] shoot down there which is not going to do because it's fixed on the thing but Jordan sitting there very legs crossed away from me in terms of body language but away from me really guarded to some extent and I my my my gut feeling is you are open but guarded at the same time and uh and you you know how good you can control [ __ ] and uh by the way I've had a few comedians in here and some try to interview me they try to turn around on me they they well Mark what do you think about this what you haven't done which is great thank you appreciate it because it's my [ __ ] podcast um but but but but but but but you you're that's the way they control the situation you control the situation by controlling yourself you're only going to give me exactly what you [ __ ] want to give me which I'm cool with I'm happy with because that's why I love talking to people and finding out how they operate how they flow How They Roll and it's really I'm really curious about how someone like you operates halfway down I'm not going to give you [ __ ] anything mark that I don't want to give you above me above where I can see where the camera's on it's total Pro dude I'm serious I'm a finger puff [ __ ] hell it's going up and down like I just wish this camera could [ __ ] p down but but and and that's a skill because when I do it to myself when I with myself when I get on and say I'm on say whatever Morning Show or something I do it myself because my game is like a politician I don't give a [ __ ] what you ask me I'm going to give you the answer I'm there to talk about and it's a way to do it yeah and you've become very good at that because it goes back then to your belief system in relation to what you said earlier which I parked this is what's important for society what you believe is important for society MH is what you're going to talk about and what you're going to plant in my brain if I listen to you or at least you're going to attempt to do that and obviously you're being very successful because there you got a big folling massive following so what's really kicking up the ass at the moment that you feel compelled to talk about and how do you come to those beliefs those views the general way that I would put it actually also came from University when I wasn't studying was this is something I talk about all the time on self-help I walked past a Tony Robbins book uh you know it it was very poor uh I was like as everyone else he's a snake oil salesman I picked it up I started reading it I was like oh my God this is life changing because when you come from a poor background you kind of just accept that you're just going to live in Squall for the rest of your life you know and so anyway I started reading I was like holy [ __ ] like successful people think completely differently to how I think started changing that so you read a Tony Tony Robbins book yeah when I was 19 and if I didn't walk past that book in the library I can't imagine being here today that completely changed my life uh I think ever since then there has been a combination of two things which is that I came from a poor background uh I understand how important the social welfare system is I probably wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't uh but I also have that other understanding as well of like you know personal responsibility and Improvement I think that my personal ideology is a combination of both of those things and I am a big fan of PR pragmatism and incremental Improvement of yourself or of society of both both of both so what does incremental Improvement of yourself mean do you mean in your skills or just getting a bit [ __ ] house you know what are we talking about here mostly I'm just talking about skills when I'm talking about it I'm always just like I I I improving exactly like I really feel like if you didn't improve at all in a day it was a wasted day that's a real goal on you yourself the the you seven habits of highly effective people think of just exercise read meditate every day I live by that um and I think that it comes doubly so when it comes to society and it really does strange me out when I hear people say things like I can't believe Anthony alanes hasn't done anything it's like well how long do you think it takes to change a nation's Direction what you think it you just walk in there one day point your fingers around the king so saith you think this is how politics works it's you mean the naivity the naivity people shocks you the naivity of people really shocks me but it also really shocks me that if you try and sell people the idea uh that your life can be radically different in 10 years if you start making small changes every day people will be excited and engaged by that idea when you talk about that on a societal level and really like it's way slower than that on a societal level because you're talking about directing what 25 30 billion people in a direction it's way slower than that but people as soon as you tell them that get disengaged and say this is not for me and what you know why isn't it happening now why isn't my life completely different you know like there's there's a real disconnect there when it comes to society and I think that that's actually something that really animates me now is just kind of telling people this is the way that things work I think that most people just don't understand that which is understandable like I don't know how your work works at all but I it is important to understand how government works because that's something that affects us all that's something that animates me then when it comes to government because you studi this stuff it's your it's your it's your bent politics governing we shouldn't be surprised governing is about controlling outcomes it's managing all of us that's what government governments do so I get the [ __ ] sometimes with their decisions but at the end of the day they to do their job based on their politics and that's what governments do like Co gave me the shits because uh I kept getting fed a whole lot of stuff about Co I didn't like it um I I didn't like I'm not saying I didn't believe it was a pandemic I'm not saying any of that sort of stuff one way or the other but I just didn't like being told how I had to think but at the end of the day I had to come to terms with the fact that that's what governments do that's why they're there they're there to govern and governing is controlling the way things are based on what they belief is going to be the outcome even though their belief system in my opinion was based on wrong data and wrong wrong calculations and wrong modeling is probably the best thing that was what was killing me is the modeling was [ __ ] wrong and by definition when someone says the science says and the modeling says I know models generally speaking always wrong because you can't put every single input into the model especially at the beginning you can over a time but you're kind of the beginning so that was what was killing me so given that do you get frustrated with the very concept of of the way politics works and government works because go to me governing in the modern world is totally inefficient just do just doesn't seem to work for me I'm not suggesting Anarchy but what do you think about that you know that that whole process of governing how albanesi right now is not actually bringing in I've not seen any real policy come out of him yet maybe he's hoping for a second term no policy this term don't do anything that's going to get me unelected or knocked out get reelected bring my policies in in the second term do you well that was his platform yeah his platform was I'm not going to do anything well see this is the whole thing when people say he's not doing anything I think what they want is they want the big PR announc you know but really what rebuilding yes he's doing well obvious but what he's really doing is rebuilding all of these broken down public services that have just been completely ransacked by the Liberals for the last 10 years and that takes time that is a huge accomplishment in itself like to just get uh you know Medicare working properly again after it's just been gutted and like a thousand elements have been privatized uh to start rebuilding environmental reform that takes time to start trying to make uh full employment and instead of like this part-time employment economy the these are things that like they're reforms it's not really like a big policy announcement these are things that are behind the scenes where you have to like rebuild the entire bureaucracy from top down that's that's a big challenge in itself so I think exactly right so it's it's I think that the thing is when people talk about this stuff it's like look the institutions that we have now they've been around since Roman times they work it's just a matter of having somebody in there that wants them to work I think that that's the real challenge of keeping people like that in government especially when it's very very easy for special interests to come in uh and like you know start a campaign on one small tiny issue make the nation focus on that tiny issue and then get a government that is like broadly managing many things out I mean I mly went to the to to the uh The Voice campaign um do you think that this government is trying to give us that that issue over here whilst at the same time they're like pedaling underwater or paddling under whatever the word is like like going crazy underwat trying to fix all the other things that are broken do you think that's where we're at at the moment they're trying to distract us over here by trying to fix a whole lot of other stuff like unemployment well I don't think that the government really thinks about that's a real media thing like the media really decides what to focus on I mean the voice is just one element I suppose it's referendum so it's like a bigger issue than normal but really like how often do you think Anthony abesi thinks about the voice on a day-to-day basis probably the two minutes that someone at Sky News is just like what do you think about polling and like I mean he's the Prime Minister he's about a lot of different things you know like it's a big big job well it's a 24-hour job too it doesn't stop yeah I think that's another thing that I've just started to get an appreciation with over the years it's like yes there are I I really don't like the generalizations of the world it's the same thing like I'm sure that you get it all the time in your field of work right it's just like what we were just talking about with the big sh beforehand it's like oh they're on Wall Street they're evil maybe not dude maybe some people on Wall Street have donated $500 million to charity they're evil what the you know they're a bad guy you know like I I think that just like these broad generalizations of people just with the oh you know oh politicians are hopeless they're all bastards and stuff it's I know from experience and I know from studying these people these are very intelligent people that have devoted their entire lives usually to try and just pushing [ __ ] up a hill and then going and then that's the end of their life and that's all they can do but they did it and the life and life is a lot better for everybody and they'll never be thanked for it I think that this is just a whole thing that you get in government all the time is there's there's a saying in it that you know if you gave everyone a bike they' complain about the color yeah I think that's 100% right but way it's true I've experienced that not where I complain where I've done those things and I've actually had people complain about stuff I give to them like what do you mean like I I many years ago um I gave I bought a house for this woman um no way yeah who need a triple bypass like no triple transplant I can't remember it was liver kidney heart or something I don't know what it was anyway I paid for the house and then Channel N9 come and renovated it for her and they obviously tried to do a bit of Leverage out of that's fine leverage their brand it was a TV show sort of around it and you know all that stuff she passed away unfortunately she she didn't wasn't able to get the things that she needed and then her husband contacted me because he was she was married obviously he's got the house and he come and saw me and he asked me to I got I just S I better see the dude and uh out of courtesy and uh he complained about the fact that when I bought the house there was an old air conditioning system in it before Channel 9 renov ated and they pull the old air condition conditioning system out and put a new one in and he asked me where the old airon conditioning system was cuz it was valuable and what happened to it oh no and uh and then he complained that one of the the dryer that was put on the laundry wall or something had come loose by the way he didn't pay for anything um and that could I arrange for someone to come and um put it back on the wall like forar I bought it for his wife I didn't buy for him yes like uh and and so that's that's sort of a big example of where someone people don't people will complain about the color of the bike if everyone got a bike and and I get it um but but you're the politics is about a whole heap of Wingers no matter who's in politics liberal labor Nationals I don't give a [ __ ] greens and over here we got the politicians who some of whom are you know dedicating their lives to what they're doing whether doesn't matter what sort of politics they're from only able to do things in short bursts but actually trying their very best to get the outcomes then you got the media sent up here particularly the mainstream media who decide what they going to write based on what they want to sell and how many how many uh copies they want to sell or how many clicks they want to get on it mainstream media it seems to me anyway that we got Jordan Shanks over here versus mainstream media it looks like you've positioned yourself to to me to be the auditor of what mainstream media tell us about how politics is working for all of us the punters MH is that correct it is you feel an obligation around that absolutely that is a huge obligation of mine that I feel a lot of I don't know why I feel a lot of responsibility about it and I think it is because this was yeah look I go down these paths sometimes I just get obsessed with the subject and I start reading a lot about it and I read a lot of academic papers about media buyas I did a show about it and I think that but I think that that's the whole thing like there's a couple of insights that I really gleaned from it that I think are very useful for the rest of everybody else to see the the first one is just really broad conspiratorial thing but it's just the more I look at it the more it's true which is that it is just a giant hypnosis machine that's the first one it's you I can't like the more you look into it the more you just realize that that's the case and the other one is uh that when people think of bias they think of ideological bias this one's leftwing this one's right wing I hate those words in themselves I find those words just part of the hypnosis in that it's just a way of dividing people and making them kind of believe like a bunch of ideologies because they're that person yeah that's your that's your gang that's your gang yeah that's your gang uh so or that's not my gang well that's not my G that's that's the more important one actually [ __ ] you that you're yeah you're right yeah that's exactly it I like the massive hypnos hypnosis scenario that that's pretty cool but so where where do you where do you fit then where is what's Jordan trying to do you trying to write that or you just trying to balance it no I'm trying to balance it out I'm basically saying that that uh I look when when you look at uh media bias you shouldn't be looking at the ideology the ideology is a sideshow that's a distraction that's what you were actually saying what you were saying there about politics that's exactly what I think about the media I think that it's just like they're just like hey everybody look at the voice or something like that or whatever it is yeah uh really when you're looking at media bias you should be looking at Agenda you should be looking at what are they getting you to focus on on and why are they getting you to focus on it and it's not ideological it's usually a business decision in the ABC's case it's a government decision it weeds me out to this very day that people think that the ABC is this independent freethinking publicly funded instit what dude it's like do you think the guy at the train station announcing when the train is coming is doing it because he wants to that's his job he's paid by the government to say that that's all they are glorified train announcers sorry anyway I see that'll that'll get a run I see myself I see myself pretty much as a uh voice for the worker that's what I try and see myself as because if you look at it these institutions are owned by Massive businesses or they're owned by the government uh where's the person just talking about and I'm not that that's if you're talking about identity politics that's who I'm aiming at when you say I am by the government like you're talking about that's not it's not Anthony Alan but who who's the government like is it somebody senior person who's in charge of media in the public service the unelected officials we who are we talking about here when it comes to the ABC well the ABC has gone through huh for ex for example just as an example the ABC has gone through 30 years of rot uh this was a deliberate tactic from John Howard there's a really good book on this uh which Name Escapes Me Now I think it was called who's who owns the ABC maybe but I think that might have been it but pretty much he came in and he had the idea that the ABC is pro the labor party which probably it was after you know 11 years of Haw and keting or whatever but obviously it would be because that's what it does it just reflects the government of the day however because the liberal party has been in for so long consecutively uh they have stacked the board entirely uh if you look at it is just filled with card carrying liberals at the board because it's like who cares what the journalist says it's like saying a you know a vegan at a steak restaurant is saying I want you to have the vegan they're going to sell you the steak that's their job you know like that's what the journalist is doing you know but that the board is where it matters and if you look at the board it's all card carrying liberals it depending on the fact if the labor party stays in for so long it'll probably get stacked with the labor party but you should know that one element of it that it is trying to set you the agenda of the day it knows that it has to play board now that ball now that there is a labor government in but because this is a new labor government it's going to take years for those contracts to expire so it is still heavily weighted to the liberal party as of now and I will tell people when The Bard has been restacked it's funny you should say because it's like The Reserve Bank bit more in my territory but like The Reserve Bank board all poters of the Liberal Party mhm and of course the LA party soon as elected had a review of The Reserve Bank MH and now they've decided to have two boards of The Reserve Bank one doing the day-to-day stuff and the other one doing the interest rate decisions and they're going to make the appointments it's up to Jim jamas he's going to make make the call and it'll be labor people it's the same the same consequence we talk about in Mary about the Supreme Court in the ultimate appeal appell at court in the US let's make and Trump talks about it I've got no I think seven out of 13 judges or something are appointed by the conservatives or or by Trump and his team therefore I control the political outcome because whatever the laws are they got to be interpreted by court and this [ __ ] exists across the board in every in every political environment I take your point but do you see your job is to bring that to the to the Public's attention because we forget about that [ __ ] we forget about all time all the time well the human brains condition conditioned isn't it well we we we don't think just we just eat you know like we consume we're just taking in we we forget to critically think or interrogate is probably a better word well I think it's even more basic than that it's kind of just like when you put a ball in front of a dog's face and then it really wants the ball I think that that's it it's just like as soon as you put something on someone's in front of someone's eyes and just be like pay attention to this people pay attention to it a really simple trick but it's it's like a massive form of crowd control manipulation or whatever like yes massively and it is but exactly it's like the if you go back to magic tricks that is all of it right like it is just the art of like distraction it's mostly just look at this hand while this hand's doing something else so does that's how I say the prayers so John do you think but do you really is it is it true that there's something wrong with that though I mean absolutely yeah absolutely or does it mean or does it depend on if I am doing that you know destruction game but I'm really have a good intention to to really look after the majority of the the people who are watching me to help them improve their lives or improve Society do you think the the technique or the mechanism matters oh in that sense yes but the thing is look if you look at who runs media companies in this country they do have very nefarious agendas if you're saying that maybe there's like a a virtuous person out there that might one day control the reign of these production yes that that's theoretically possible yes but usually these are businesses trying to make money and you can go through the entire history I highly recommend that people read this book called paper Emperors and the uh paper Emperors paper Emperors and media Moguls and it just goes through the last 100 years of this country which is just this is the repeated pattern of the press in this country uh the reason the papers were set up in this country really was union busting it was just to smash unions anytime a union was set up saying broken Hill the broken Hill times would come up and then just put anti-union propaganda R all the time that's how they were formed in this country because they understand that it is not beneficial to them to have a party in power that is representing workers they want that in and you can see it when if look by any metric whatsoever with the liberal party right it doesn't matter what your ideology is like if you're just looking at the metrics of how they're governed if you're looking at economic performance we're at the top of the o o under the labor party we're at the bottom of the oecd under the Liberals if they really cared if they were just saying like look I get the argument of uh economic management we're there for economic management you're not delivering you were not delivering for 10 years and the labor party was so what argument are we having here but they kept siding with them for 10 years every election supporting them every election just pushing the whatever the narrative was at the time so with Scott Morrison's it was all just about oh my God Frank and credits nightmare like you know that that should have been the focal point of an election like this weird little accounting trick that affected what 0.6% of the population or something but that was a huge part of an election it is bizarre to think about now do you think so strange or do you think it's clever politics huh or do you think it's clever politics by well it's cever when you're talking about these institutions they all work with each other and they talk to each other obviously and Scott Morrison you know he got exposed just having like this big dinner party with all the journalists and whining and dining them so yes it's a narrative that they build together but you know you cannot say that the media is not biased towards the Liberal Party when they uh Channel 9 had like a a fundraiser for them at their headquarters you know you like I mean you would have to be brain dead to not think that the the Murdo press supports the Liberal Party when it comes to the ABC it's just like dude that's their boss that was their boss for 10 years like you know what I'm saying you get more people download your YouTube videos than any TV show now I do this was the first year yeah but but you do like so you would outrate every TV show individually not all of them not all of them maybe math might beat you or something like that but but you would but you would and and do you think though you're you're doing the same thing though but in different with a different outcome or a different objective do you think that you are using all your god-given skills and charms and and your accumulated Knowledge from your extent reading and being studious as student of all these things that you're talking about do you think you are doing something similar but from a different point of view you know your Technique is the same as them yes but I think that you know the the Murdo press pushed for the liberal party because they wanted uh you know no NBN in this country so that he could get another 10 years out of just having a monopoly on the cables so he could just keep running foxtail into the ground for another 10 years so he added a government for that I'm not making my decisions on multi-billion Dollar business decisions that benefit me personally right so you you're so when okay so now how do you build a belief so the belief system it's not about how many you don't own anything outside of your show it's not as if you own a newspaper or whatever like you're trying you're not trying to protect anything like Murdoch might be trying to protect for example yes so when you build your belief systems as what is better for society how do you work out whether in the example of NBN for example what's better for us I mean how do do you consult with people do you how do you work it out how do you work that [ __ ] [ __ ] out like it's uh it's pretty they're they're big issues yeah important issues but big issues to comp complex yes how how do you how do you sort of make a deduction at the end of the day or do you the same way that everyone does right like you read and talk to experts but that's just all I do I don't have a life I sit there and read and I talk to experts yeah yeah so that's your game so that's your point so you do actually cons are Consulting people yes on the topic yeah and then you go to town you basically get into your show and you you you produce it to have an outcome and do you ever have points where you think [ __ ] I went too far or uh I shouldn't have said that or maybe [ __ ] I I got to change my my call on that particular item or that particular concept oh yeah yeah I have them all the time and what do you do and I think that that's that is nothing angers me more than when you're talking to someone and you know that you may as well be talking to an answering machine that there is no openness to their mind at all and I understand that every human being has like an inherent bias where they just think I'm immediately right you know like they've got all of those things happening grow up and stuff like that how you grow up and stuff like your parents and all where you in a school absolutely yes yeah but I think that you should be trying to fight that now I'm not saying that I'm perfect when it comes to I am this Arbiter of whatever knowledge comes my way I just make evidence-based decisions I think that even that even just believing that in itself proves that you're not uh but I try yeah so you don't mind doing I try I try to change my mind you know like I like it when I'm wrong you don't mind changing as you go along no I mean one that I just had recently is just I've been working on it for the last three weeks sorry it's why I'm extremely tired right now just been staying up late because I'm trying to get out this very long video just showing what a marketing pyramid scheme the greens are but when I was 18 I thought that they were amazing for the environment why because they said they were you know well can you now I don't think that well I mean I don't want to do breaking news but like can can you explain it a little bit more do you mind can you just share a little bit about that yeah okay look this is a classic strategy of theirs uh with the housing bill at the moment right that they're just holding up in the big debate in yeah like but they made it that and and why because it they know that every time that because look Lydia Thorp really shouldn't have left that party she is exactly a microcosm of what that is which is what Paul keading describes them there's a bunch of opportunists and trots which is really what they are it's just it's just a bunch of crazy people and people that realize oh it's easy to get a seat this way in this really cynical Coalition and they basically do what Lydia Thorp does but Lydia thorp's just crackhead levels are insane like just getting kicked out of strip clubs and everything but that's basically the greens motor operand I mean think about this for instance this is supposedly a party that cares about the environment always talking about climate change to the point that you know if you did about the environment I can't remember the last time they talked about Plastics or uh you know deforestation or water protection I can't remember it's always about climate change right if that's the case why did they block Kevin Rod's carbon emissions trading scheme you know that was you would understand this as a businessman right like just the sheer arrogance to say let's not bring the private sector along with this like huge task like what what is the private sector 85% of the population let's not bring them along let's make it all bureaucrats in transforming the energy grid transforming industry all these necessary steps that are massive let's not do any of that that's really what you're saying by not you know having like an emissions trading scheme of you know trading emissions with big you know you get the basic gips of it right that was their ideological Point how dare you do that this should just be a government top down thing okay yeah but maybe that might be more efficient whatever but the point is it's not the real world it's it's fantasy stuff they would have known that they would have known that but they also would have known because the greens cannot exist without saying you know we're making labor better the labor party is just this terrible shitty party uh you know the Liberals are awful both major parties are terrible and we can you know attach ourselves like a sucker fish to the labor party and then control you know a these balain wine mums and Byron Bay hippies can like you know just just they they know what's better for workers than the working party you know like they're going to get their little go on it and so then they get in there uh and you know they deliberately obstruct something that they know would be an active work an active price on carbon they know that that that's like the only workable alternative and yet they sink it because they know know that they can cause a huge media scene and by causing a huge media scene they get the idea in people's heads that the labor party sucks and then they get to suck some of the vote off of the labor party they did it with uh uh the Malaysia solution and now they're doing it with housing this is the modus operando of how they operate because it seems to me when I look at what one of their one of their conditions on the passing of the bill through the Senate is about putting a cap on rents um which by the way is the state government thing is thing but anyway um it looks like an impossibility I don't see how labor can ever agree to it I mean just it'll sink him you know it'll be that'll be the uh franking credits for the next election that'll be the negative gearing for the next election um labor won't do it yeah so therefore it can't get through yeah and on top of that but it's a good a terrible economic decision as well like I've I've gone through it every single this is insane every single example they give it's always is like oh San Francisco did it you look at it what happened landlords just went I'm not making any money they sold their properties the rental market shrank oh you know uh New Jersey did it the rental market Shan Spain did it the rental market shank so much that they just abolished it last week but they're still using Spain as this example that you should be because it's not about that it's just about selling Elixir to people this is something that I always think about minor parties right I have my differences with the liberal party but they understand actually not really under Scot Mor's Reign but I'll give it to Tony ABT and John Howard they had respect for the Parliamentary procedure they had respect for how government runs minor parties do not most minor parties are just Elixir salesmen selling a particular brand of narcissism to a small section of society and that's how they get in and so it's never like you know what I mean like Clive Palmer just saying I'm going to freeze mortgage rates by 3% it's like yeah you can do that I'm not going to freeze it for you C yeah if you if you think me I'm going to my 220,000 I'm going to freeze my mortgage I can't cuz it we'll go broke we won't won't exist after uh 6 months yeah because if the interest rate goes up and I'm freezing at 3% or whatever he was he was talking about three Freez money cost today 4 and a half% is it insane money cost me four and a half so you'd be saying the whole the whole banking system would have collapsed exactly exactly but that's the economic problem you know what the other problem is he can't he doesn't have that power but he gets to put it on Billboard and it's fine no one says anything and it's exactly the same with the greens free National freeze of rent and it's just like you see all the kitties now just being like yeah freeze rents it's like you were the same ones being snarky about Clive Palmer saying freeze mortgage rates at 3% but then when the green say freeze rent all of a sudden it affects you you like the green tonic how do you fix that though I mean Ian not how do you fix yeah how do you fix that part from commentary like is your game to bring awareness to the uh the idiocracy of this stuff you know like and also by the way drawing those people who are voting for the greens because they think we have need a better environment they climate change sort of Advocates how do you bring them to say look what you're voting for is exactly what Clyde Palmer's doing over here but it's it's just a different slightly different agenda do you is that your game to bring that to everyone's attention especially your cohort of listeners oh yeah well that's what I've realized is I can't convince kly Palmer voters I can't convince One Nation voters they're too old like they don't watch me they don't use the internet yeah Zoomers do what I do like about Zoomers there's a lot of things that I don't like about that generation but one thing that I do like about them a lot is because they grew up with the internet they check their sources they grew up in a world where it's just like oh I'm lost for a second oh no I'm not I looked at my phone you know like they they know that they can just Google anything at any time and so apparently this is what all the research is coming out Zoomers are the most malleable in their mindset now I don't mean malleable is in twisting it like exactly they'll change their mind they're prepared if they hear a good argument they'll change their mind yeah yeah totally that's great and and buy a mile out of any generation that is the generation that does it and it is because they're the Google generation and so I think that if I make a strong enough argument about the fact that you know look really I've been thinking about this a lot recently the greens and they target exactly the same people Triple J listeners it's all that brand image of like oh we're underground and edgy because we're listening to music that like sells out stadiums but not stadiums multiple nights in a row and it's just like really what you're doing is you're selling the brand of counterculture to people who can't be bothered to find Underground Music themselves that's what you're doing and that's the greens it's just like do you think you're a good person here's the greens they're making labor better it's it's it's a it's a marketing con and I think that once you explain the facts and figures I honestly think that Jen Zed will be like yeah there's a reason that the labor party has survived for 100 years it's a vital institution no that's that's pretty strong talk you know it is that's good it's good no it's good but but but you know but at the end of the day like I mean I read somebody like him I saw I saw Paul Barry [ __ ] carry on about it like you got your house firebombed like there's risk associated with these views I mean that's pretty heavy getting your [ __ ] house firebombed can you do you mind if I ask were you at home you went home and happen too stupid to be home I forgot my keys that's why I'm alive I like I left him in mour serious yeah that's why that's why I wasn't home and and do you have any idea who might have done it did you get a warning do they put a little [ __ ] ticket under your door and say that's the whole thing cuz they don't understand we pissed too many people off you have to be more explicit than a firebombing send me a note yeah yeah at least up card something at least I'm up to it yeah or or or put a a sort of Pudin down there like something that you even give yourself a name but that doesn't exist it's a fake name fake it or something for [ __ ] sake I mean I was dying to know because like so when you got when I mean five bomb's pretty heavy to be honest you I know you're laughing at it but it is pretty heavy thing um was there much damage like was it just a little fire out the front of the door like I mean I just saw a flame on you know on on telly but what was the extent of the was it actual bombb like Molotov cocktail or something like that well see here's the thing they don't even know they think was but they're still doing lab tests but it's obviously some kind of petrol or something but the thing is uh it burnt I think everything except the back room in the kitchen of my house wow so it was all unusable and riddled with his bestes um I don't go there anymore why not but so how do you feel do you feel do you ever feel under threat like do do you ever sort of look over your shoulder think [ __ ] me I wonder if I really piss someone off I'm going to cop it across the back of the head or something do you ever feel that or that doesn't bother you no why not five B's pretty heavy that's the sort of [ __ ] that bike is and stuff like that do like uh not saying you're invol B but you know that's it's a heavy thing I don't know look I I know that everyone's always just saying that I don't know I don't want to play into the image of Bravery but it's it's just another thing that I've had ever since I was a kid I don't really I'm not really perturbed by be filthy though threats or you're filthy want know who the [ __ ] did it like do you do you get obsess I want to F who did that no you know what is really weird about that that's something else I don't care at all who fire bombs my house I have no interest in that I have no ill will towards them but I [ __ ] hate journalists you know like it's really weird it's just like they'll get under my skin a journalist saying something any lie at all I'll obsess over it for months but someone firebombing my house I'm just like oh well that's clearly a message wonder what it was well that's what I'm asking because like I mean I saw you hook in at Paul Barry pretty hard because he you know he was uh accusing you of doing things that he does every day of the week um G ask krie Packer what he thinks about well K's dead now but ask kri Packer what he thought about at the time when Paul Barry released a book on him um your and it takes me right back to the beginning your ability to efficiently say what you thought but at the same time give it as much Edge as possible was I thought was unbelievable um like it was so [ __ ] good it was ridiculous um and I'm I'm not a big PA Barry fan myself and U only because like I just think he's unfair and I don't mind someone being the way they if they're own up to it I don't give a [ __ ] yes you say what you think yes you you won't it to because you believe in it yeah and that's cool yes but don't double standard someone I [ __ ] hate that isn't that so that sense of moral superiority exactly mean dude like uh and I'm you know he's I'm probably not his he's probably not my biggest fan either but I don't I don't understand like why the [ __ ] do you just keep pulling everyone's pants down but someone someone pulls your pants down you get the shits and then you just put a highlight reel up about them and you just take them to town I don't understand that [ __ ] like I don't get it neither do I I really don't understand it play properly yes that's the way to put it play properly I get it why isn't that like I really don't understand like the need Behind these people to kind of give themselves this Arbiter of I'm fair and balanced and better than everyone I don't know why they need to keep that facade up well can I now just say something which probably I hopefully I don't piss off the people listen to my show but I said it before people older people of 50 frake look at your cohort of people and the people you talk to as oh you [ __ ] think you're entitled to do this that and the other you do whatever you [ __ ] want you have a sense of entitlement I'm of the view people in my category over 50 we think we're more entitled than everybody and I actually think that the audience that Paul Barry talks to and to a larger extent even the ABC generally but we are they talk to an entitled audience who also reflect on the and the person who's doing the talking the jour jist also thinks he or she's entitled they don't like you you're an upstart and you don't have enough runs on the road or runs on runs in the game and you haven't put enough Le rubber on the road I should say to have an opinion just yet or definitely not to have millions of people following you how dare you have a view on these things the underestimation of Someone Like You your accumulated knowledge in other words Paul Barry's probably never sat down and talked and realize that you are a student of everything you say that you actually read book after book after book and study things and walk through libraries and blah blah blah you understand all the stuff he probably understands too there's no reason why Jordan can't condense into 30 years or say his last 15 years what Paul Barry condensed into his last 40 years there's no reason that is an underestimation of let's call it the enemy and you should never underestimate underestimate the enemy never never and I think that's a fatal mistake that us older people make we underestimate younger people I'm like you four kids four boys all in your age category smart kids and they never stop surprising me about what they [ __ ] know at their age relative to what I knew at their age there nothing to do with me because me being their father but like you they consume [ __ ] and they they dive into things head first and they just eat it up we should never underestimate that in fact what we should do is you should be sitting back and actually encouraging these points of view you know but I might not agree with you or them my kids but I still like to hear what they got to say just like I like sitting here listening to what you got to say because at the end of day we all [ __ ] learn something from everybody I don't give a [ __ ] what the conversation is who it's with which is why I do the show I learned every single time about how to think and remaining curious older people lose their curiosity right right there's definitely an element of that isn't there you are curious about every [ __ ] thing yeah everything in your wheelhouse yeah and you opposed of me when I was your age you got access to finding out all this [ __ ] out yeah then what you want to do is prosecute it what's wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that I we need more energy this country more energy proper directed energy from people like you we need more of it which is probably the reason why you got such a following they're getting your energy yeah I mean look it's not very it's not very hard is it when you look at like an American political commentators there's a few that have some theatrics to them and they have some pmics but when it comes to the Australian talent scout I mean the fact that Paul Barry is a top dog he's basically an animatronic puppet it's no barely any life there oh I hope you're listening to this we'll send we we'll send that clip we'll just shot it straight into him but but you could say that about lots of leaders in lots of categories around Australia too by the way I mean you could say about the Reser Reserve Governor you say the same thing yes I mean you're absolutely right about that about Australia it is it's it's that lucky country mentality it really is there's not much energy well but people you're GRE aren't you GRE mom's Irish dad's GRE yeah yeah but that's that's a fiery country oh always man the Irish especially they're always [ __ ] protesting about something they like they love a protest and the Greeks are too like it's funny one of my sons there at the moment he said he text me yday said DL man Athens and he said dad every afternoon at 2 o' there's a March and everybody pulls down all their shutters and all thing and there's a March every day they're marching about something different there's thousands of them coming down the streets he say killing me so and and then about 4:00 because 2:00 CEST time they all going and have have a wine and a bit of lunch and have a sleep all the shop owners and then at 4:00 the March is over and everybody goes back to work and they put their shows back and back to business back to nor oh really okay so that's their cester a protest a protest so but but I like conflict I like seeing conflict I like seeing different ideas maybe it is because of my background Perhaps it is because I always saw people with opinions mom always had strong opinions of course always strong [ __ ] opinions and uh we very opinionated people Irish and gree totally and actually but it was good dra I got dragged into it exactly you know and I had to learn to be part of it do you think in Australia that we are scared of opinions I don't think it's so much this thing of scared of opinions I think it's just a very apathetic lazy country because we never really had to fight for much I think that's the difference it's like you know Greece was fighting over an area the size of a tennis court for what 2,000 years you know like and Iris the same makes you argue about ideas a lot and and the same they've been they've been defending against English for whatever and and that's quite an interesting point so I think it's just like we're a very resourcer large country with very few people on it it's really you don't really have to try that hard to keep your head above how do we change that how do we get people to be more aware I think you can I think that's just an environment Al thing I think that the general default tone of this continent will always be apathy it doesn't have the same conflict that Europe had so how do you how how do you succeed in your mission how do you measure that I don't really think because I think that that's the case with this country there's a lot of things to be extremely as everyone says I mean you know it's a platitude but really how often do you fly to some other country and then when you come back to Australia just like thank God I've got this passport there's like maybe two countries I've ever been to where I thought yeah I could live there everywhere else I'm like thank [ __ ] yeah 100% no you're right you're coming over the over over the botney there [ __ ] I'm glad to be dropping Mila back here yeah this is good such a good joint yeah but before I go I think I got to get the [ __ ] out of here um equally oh yeah yeah well there the the you know wanting to stretch your wings no but it but sometimes no but sometimes it kills me here like sometimes the abject failure of everything the whole system just [ __ ] me up like I mean I've been thinking to myself a lot lately what I've really noticed is you've opened up more you your body language is changing which the camera was on it he's actually he's now we're now chatting but at least I'm chatting anyway but um I've been thinking for some time it's nearly like we need a new party like somewhere it adopts the best parts of the liberal Coalition some adops the best part of the the labor party and maybe there's one or two elements of the the greens you could drag into it nothing out of the Palmer party um so what do you think about that conceptually like in a political sense do you think there's a a middle ground I mean know I know they're all occupying the middle ground the moment but do you think there was an actual Middle Ground party that could evolve in politics in Australia they're to polarizing my argument would be that the labor party is the middle party like I think there's this idea of there's always this elusive idea that there's going to be some I think this is just a thing of the human psychology isn't it that there there's some savior Force out there that one day is going to just ascend from the heavens remember this do you remember this phrase I can't remember who said it but like uh no one's coming to rescue you yeah yeah yeah you know like that is such a liberating thought to have I think that it's just when when it comes to this idea that there's this other party they they come and they go there's the Australian Democrats before that there was the Democratic labor party now there's the greens there's always this third you know savior party that's coming it's always a COR it's like that's pretty look I know that people have their qualms with KL Marx but I do think that he actually did Identify some very basic principles of how Society runs in that really there's two conflicting forces in every society ever and that is capital versus labor and I think that the labor party has always been this thing of no we should be representing the workers but they also understand that the business owners need to make a profit as well and they understand that that's how you move the country forward when you bring those two forces together I mean look the Golden Age of the labor party that everyone always goes back to the Haw heeding years those were the most economically prosperous years in Australian when it comes to Kevin rud no one wants to admit it he got us out of the global financial crisis no one else did they always just try and point to China well China was buying resources from every other country on Earth why didn't they fall into it it was because of strong economic management it's because these are people like you you met Bob Carr right like that's a that's a brain that is a very intelligent man you can't say that that man doesn't know what he's talking about you know like it it always attracts those people because it's a party of pragmatism it's a party of what works but they're interested in what works like that that's what I'm that's what I'm more and more interested in the more I go into politics these days I'm not interested in like ideals or like this this this policy would solve lives can you implement it has it been implemented somewhere else what were the problems with it what happens when you implement it oh it's not working okay we'll stop it you know like I think that's it it's just that if it's not broken don't fix it mentality mixed with if it is broken fix it my two favorite periods of politics you just hit on it was more about the characters as well so HW heting to me was one of the best periods polit political periods let me ask you something about that when it was happening did you think it was or were you saying H thiss side because when it was happening I was much younger and inflation got a bit out of control and early 90s as a result of the as a result of the exuberance the economy started to experience in the late 80s in the early 90s I had to sell my house cuz I couldn't afford my interest rate anymore because I was [ __ ] so my memory at the time was I wasn't happy with labor I wasn't happy with poor to be honest with you m um but then the Howard but equally I think the Howard per was very good too I think John Howard is a good politician MH but when I look at the politicians post Howard I don't think there's anyone in matches Hawk kiding Howard um at the time Ken Frank Frank and Simon crean back in the labor party days um I I don't really have much memory prior to that I don't have much memory PRI of the 80s mid 80s when the lab party came in but I just think there was a lot of good policy and in hind out a lot of good policy but great intellect that's what I felt today I think there was great intellect and but and also great commitment I mean keing today all right he's sort of gets a bit up everybody but at the same time he's still prepared to get up everybody MH and he's still has great intellect yes Howard is not as old as is older than Paul um but how it still has good intellect I mean and they're prepared to say what they bloody believe in you know what I mean step uph and they live by their belce by the way it's not [ __ ] I think they live by it so I would say to me that they were the some of the greatest periods I'm sure the greater period PRI of that but that I've ever experienced today I don't feel as I get the same characters I me I'm prepared to give albanesi and Jim Charmers and those guys ago because they've only been five minutes so I don't know the answer to that question but that's something that I I think they should aspire to well again it's it's the Beast of the media machine I really do think that I I think that like when it comes to all of these politicians they are still very intelligent people but there's two elements that are happening there the first one being that now if you want to become a politician really you have to start in University and you just have to go down that path your entire life so you become very very trained in the art of sound bites you become very trained in the art of if I say this this faction will get pissed off at me that that's how you move down that path because it's become a very professionalized industry there's definitely that I mean look that was what kading did but he was kind of the The Godfather of all of it I suppose um there's there is that but it's also yeah like I I frequently go back and watch Paul keting and Bob Hawk being interviewed by people and you can tell you can tell that there was that great intellect behind what they were saying but I think it's because the Press allowed them to say it now they're kind of just with these gotcha question remember that like how they tried to sink Al and Easy in the last election because he couldn't remember yeah I can't remember official cash rate the cash rate it was just like he's not ready to leave because he forgot something after campaigning for two Jord Paul would have remembered it Paul oh yeah yes Paul would have remembered the thing is we don't know that because the Press wouldn't have been that unfair they wouldn't have tried to get him on these like little like what's the capital of Iceland like this kind of [ __ ] you know you're right there's there's a new meeting but when I look at what Paul keing achieved I mean what he did for the union movement and in terms of Industry funds superannuation industry funds is phenomenal when you think it's huge it's massive there and what he did for the labor party by doing that for the unions and creating industry funds that now are equivalent to any Bank in the country in in fact if you're talking about something in terms of moving the country forward that's pretty much the only thing that's holding us together these days I think I really do think that I think the super annuation is really the only thing we see any Innovation anytime I ever have a friend that wants to start some kind of entrepreneurial business idea they immediately go to the Super funds yeah that's the first stop and I think it's like no one's really ever given him the accolay he deserves for doing that but that is like in terms of policy my God that is ridiculous massive massive yeah so big there's nobody who's done anything equivalent in the last 40 years in my my opinion and I had lunch with PA and he also was the very first person to remind me he came along and he bought a clipping of a paper that he kept from 1995 which had his handwriting on it was photocopy did me the actual paper game a photoc copy he said M he even went to my school and he said to me we're having lunch down at Bondo and he said he just gave it to me let's straight up um and had uh that business you own wizard business which uh allowed you to compete with the banks he said that's as a result of what I did how I reformed the banking system and made it able to made non-banks able to come into the marketplace and to prove it I have the clipping of the newspaper with my handwriting on it in not from 1995 thin review front page the guy is a beast intellectual Beast you know what's so weird I was thinking exactly that when I was driving here I was just like your wealth is a result of those reforms clicked in my head when I the cir stay they introduced in late 80s and they the cire recommended you know uh wholesale changes to the banking system to allow stop the banks having so much power yes but by the way the whole Trade union movement and the industry funds was stopped the banks from having so much power again and uh I don't know if you recall this but when they called The Raw commission the ha raw commission more recently um the Liberal Party included the raw commission to inquire into the trade the uh industry funds as well just to sort of give him a bit of a clip didn't work nothing happened um but and there's obviously a big deal in the liberal party's mind that Paul the labor party through Pini had introduced all this stuff back in the 90s that's it's actually nation building stuff that they did this is that's what I mean by policy nation building stuff that builds a nation yeah to me yeah and uh and it doesn't matter which way I vote I will call it the way it is what king did and how Hawk brought us Australia together by the way yeah he was just a brilliant leader but what keing did on an intellectual level nobody's repeated that no and you never will like there's only one Paul keting that's you you can't put everyone at the pedestal of like not usin bolt you know and he was a Hussein bolt in terms of politics I think intellect in I think world class honestly it was really weird if he was in America he'd be the president of the United States if he was in the eu' be the whatever they have of the EU he'd be there he' be at the absolute top of it and he'd probably actually be more appreciated than he was here yeah and uh and and we're lucky I mean I'm I feel as though I'm lucky to have met him but I feel I feel as though I'm lucky to I lived through a period where he existed but at the time I was filthy on him because they they put interest rates up to 7 or % and they just knocked me out of the property Market put me on the rental market and I had three four kids at the time um it was a tough period but nonetheless when look back on it to answer your question looking back at the time I didn't enjoy that part but looking back is brilliant but anyway I'm I've been wound up a 100 times by my producer of here and this been so good I really enjoyed myself Jordan I know we didn't talk much about your uh your YouTube series um but you are you don't you don't need my help mate you're killing it anyway I've enjoyed the the conversation hell a lot really no I really enjoyed meeting you thanks very much Jordan thank you