What is Healthy Dependency in a Relationship and How Do We Find It? with Nedra Tawwab transcript

There are actually healthy ways to be dependent. There are things that we have to do as a byproduct of being in a relationship with people. This podcast is a Deer Media production. Hi guys. >> Hi guys. Welcome to another episode of Girls Got to Eat. >> Welcome back. We've been talking some really hard [ __ ] the last I really like I feel happy in my box artic. We had to get some stuff out. >> Also, it's Groundhog's Day. >> Wait, it is. >> So, maybe if the groundhog sees a shadow.

Well, Groundhog's Day is in February. >> What? What happens Groundhog's Day? There's like three more months of winter. >> Yeah. If he sees a shadow or not. He should relate it to like the political landscape. Like if he sees a shadow, maybe this nightmare will end. And if he doesn't, we have 30 more years of this dictatorship. >> Wait, is it is it Phil? >> He's from Pennsylvania. >> Yeah, we've talked about him in his family. >> What's the thing?

How like if if he sees the shadow, is it three more months of winter or something? >> Or am I overstapping? >> Are you What? >> Every year this is like Groundhog's Day. No, because remember last year we talked about Punksatonyi Phil and how >> he has to live in No, he has to live in like a library or something or a museum and PETA >> is against it and Peter reached out. I thought that there was some scandal where Punksatani Phil got really skinny.

He looked like he was on a GOP one. People got upset. >> Everybody's on his epic. >> Okay, Groundhog's Day. Not you. >> It's said to Except for me. I'm the I'm the final one. I feel like it's becoming so accessible, right? Like pill form and everything and >> yes. >> So I mean every everyone's going to be pill form. >> I'm going to be the last person standing >> with a natural body. People like Raina, how did you lose weight?

How do you think I lost? >> Okay. If he sees his shadow, it's said to extend six weeks more of winter. >> Six weeks, not three months. Okay. >> Okay. And then February, our special month. >> Oh, it is our special month. So, we will talk about this at a later date, but we will be celebrating eight years of the podcast this month. >> That's crazy. >> It really is so crazy. >> I was always like, are we going to make it to five?

You know, and now it's like, are we going to make it to 10? >> Yeah. What else are we going to do? >> All right, let's thank our partner. >> We're not going anywhere. Thanks to Article, get a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed at article.com. >> And thank you to Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at liquidiv.com with code gge. And thank you to Revolve. Get 15% off your first order at revolve.com/ggge with code gge.

And I'll just say this really quickly. Ashley and I own a sexual wellness brand called Vibes Only. We have tons of amazing high-end vibrators for couples solo gift your friends. We have lube, we have handcuffs, we have massage oil candles, all kinds of stuff. So if you guys want to have just like a spicy, sexy Valentine's Day by yourself or with your partner, vibes.com. And the last day for ground shipping is this week.

It's February 5th. So beautiful packaging. feel really excited to gift to somebody. >> Extra sexy packaging. >> Yes. Give somebody orgasms. That's what they really want. So, you started your tour. We are recording this beforehand, but I'm sure it was great. >> I'm sure it was great. And you were with me all weekend. And I'm sure it was great. >> Let's hope something terrible happens where I have to come back in. Something terrible will probably happen, but it will be privately in your hotel room.

That'll be amazing. I hope a lot of terrible things happen in my hotel room. Terrible things. >> Disgusting things. >> Disgusting things. You guys stay tuned. Yeah. We'll let you know. We were at our friend's Bachelorette this weekend. Also, Alyssa Amaroso, who is a former guest of the show, so we'll we'll tell you about it next week. >> Yeah. Yeah. If there's anything we need to recap, we will do it then. >> Yeah. But thanks for coming and, you know, continue to give me your money.

Greenber.com. >> Yes. We have Nedra today. Oh, my queen. This will be our third our third time with Nedra and it's the first time in person. and we had her virtually and she walked in and I was like, "What are you wearing?" >> You're such a style queen. >> So, watch on YouTube to see her outfit and I have since bought it. You really went home and bought it. >> Yeah. So, I was like, "What designer is she wearing that is like inaccessible to the average person?

Like, it looked so couture." >> Also, I'm just like, we have a lot of guests show up looking like a wonderful full outfit, heels, she had like heels on, she'd look great, hair done, makeup done. I don't show up looking like that to other podcasts and I feel bad. >> We dress way better than we used to. I can't believe what we used to wear. >> Every day I put on clothing and I'm like, I cannot believe what I used to. >> We know.

And you know, we did start the podcast without video. So maybe if we would have >> I don't know. But even when we started doing video, I was still just really slumming it. And I >> for years >> I don't regret it because it's the growth. >> I was you've been able to be on the journey with us. But her outfit, it's it's Gap. It's like this Gap studio thing. I was able to find it. It was on sale like 70% off final sale. So, catch me in Nedra's outfit, you guys.

Check it out on YouTube. And I just don't think I'm going to be able to pull it off like her. I was saying like we just have different bodies, different looks. Like, I don't know. I'm just like I feel like I'm going to put it on and be like, "God damn it." >> You know, I like an all jean set. I love a jean jumpsuit. All jeans set. Is it jean? >> It's like It's denim. Yeah. But the matt the print I mean and she had a heel with it.

That silver heel. I'm saying people come looking like really nice to record with us. >> It is crazy when you see somebody in something you like, I'll buy that right now. I'll buy it now. I'm copying you. Exactly. >> Yeah. Lindsay Simick when we recorded with the almost 30 girls, those reformation pants with the studs down the side. It was like immediate add to cart. >> Yes. It's It is so flattering. >> Yeah. >> And it's like, you know, you and I do that too and we try not to wear the same thing on the same day, but it's just like that's girlhood. >> We haven't shown up in the same outfit in a while. >> Do you think our styles change?

Are our periods not synced up anymore? That's crazy. I don't get a period anymore. Okay, I have to read you this thing. >> Okay, go. >> I'm just curious what you would have done. Okay. >> And I can't decide if this makes me an [ __ ] or not. Okay, so >> I get a text from this guy. I've not seen his name in like I mean I want to say 14 or 15 years. I went on one date with him in New York City. >> Do I know about this at all? >> No, I just like one No, you know nothing about I went on one date with this guy.

It was sort of a weird date and then I'd see him here and there in New York, but we never I think we both mutually were like, "I don't [ __ ] with you." And that was that. He's gotten married and had a kid since then. Okay. >> So, I got a text from him the other day. >> What? >> And it said, "Hey, I have an actual work emergency, so I'm leaving now. It says 28 minutes. I'm very sorry. I really hope to get there earlier today." And I was like, I don't need to respond to this.

I don't care. >> Yeah. >> I don't need to be like, this is not for me. But it's it's so interesting for you to get that because of your name. Like I am way more prone to get something like that with >> Ashley. Totally. >> What other Raina do you have? >> Raina or Greenberg and like 412 from Pittsburgh. Like it's not a major It's a major city but it's not a top 15 city in the country. >> But you were programmed in his phone cuz he didn't just pull up an old 412 number from 15 years ago.

Yeah. Like your name was in his >> Okay. 2 days later. Hey, be there around 8:15 for breakfast. Hope that's okay. >> Wait. Oh, what? >> He keeps going. So I again am just like I don't need to respond to this. I don't care about this. >> No. What? Okay. I am having a stroke. >> A couple weeks later he goes on. >> No. Raina. What is happening? >> Hey, sorry but looking like 8:20 for arrival. Would love to still have breakfast if possible. >> Wait.

No. Why is it always the bre? What's He's just Was the first one breakfast, too? This has been three breakfast. >> The first one was not breakfast. The second one was breakfast. The third was breakfast. I still am not responding. >> And he And by the way, whoever he's texting is not responding. I know. >> Which is you, but I'm saying whoever he thinks he's texting. >> He's not It's not responding to him. So, he isn't like picking up any context clues.

Like, when you got there, was there breakfast? >> Wait, did did they go to breakfast? >> When you talk to the person, did they say I never got your text? >> Text, right? This is an unsolved mystery. >> I got I got a fourth text. >> No, the same a different day last week. >> Okay. He says a guy's name. So, I I won't say what the name is, but John John is just waking up now. So So, we will not be there for breakfast today.

Not breakfast again. How many breakfast dates is this guy going on? >> Likely we'll be there closer to 8:30. >> Wait, every day is 8. What? What time is he show? Who is he having breakfast with? And he's going with his wife. >> So I text this to Jeremy. I go, "This [ __ ] idiot. Why is he texting me about breakfast every day?" >> Remember this guy? >> Jeremy knows him. Yeah, Jeremy knows him, too. Okay. I'm like, "This [ __ ] idiot." >> Jeremy without hesitating.

It's clearly about his son and it washes over me. He thinks he's texting his son's school about his kids breakfast and this is the kid's name. He's just waking up now. So, we'll be there. We're going to be missing breakfast this morning. It never >> I still don't know what you're saying. >> I I think he thinks he's texting his son's >> school. School. >> Hey, he's just waking up today. We don't need to do breakfast. Okay.

Okay. Jeremy, what are you a dad now? What are you a parent? You are inside the minds of parents. Okay, so how did it get how did it get from Raina to the school? I don't I'm just like He'll figure it out. I'm not going to I did feel a little bad cuz I like realized this was some kid's school and I want the kid to have breakfast, but like >> this kid's starving cuz you weren't responding. >> Thursday a couple days ago.

We'll be there by 8:10. Not sure if he will miss breakfast, but he will if you're not okay with waiting. >> Okay. So, he is texting something that does not typically get a response. Obviously, that's the only reason he would keep doing it. So, >> yes, but like when you got there, didn't you realize there was or wasn't breakfast? And like, isn't it such a dad move to just keep texting? >> Wait, YOU HAVE NOT RESPONDED YET? >> I DIDN'T respond to the last one. >> You did? >> No, I didn't. >> You have not yet responded. >> I have not responded. >> Did Jeremy say you should respond as a parent? being an [ __ ] He was like, "You're being an asshole." But like, I don't know.

I listen, I'm not trying to starve this kid of breakfast, but like, shouldn't this dad Also, is he trolling? You think he's just trying Get back in. Get back with you. He's like, I'm a dad that cares about my kid and make sure he has breakfast, >> but I can't be on time. It's the most >> important mail of the day. >> What if I wrote him back? I'm like, "Sorry, it's it's really it's giving me the you can't be on time." >> No, seriously.

Like, you're a shitty parent. Figure your [ __ ] out. Pull it together. Your kid needs to eat. >> Like I hope John's okay. >> Like I'm calling Child Protective Services. You are not feeding your child. >> That's why I text him back the number for CPS. >> You have to say I think this is the wrong number. Cuz for me for the audience like we all want to know what happens like cuz you know he's going to say, "Oh, sorry. I thought you were the school." >> But now I'm too deep.

Like now I've gotten so many texts. I'm like really an [ __ ] No funnier all makes it funnier. >> Now I'm going to be like, I think you have the wrong number. You've texted me six times. You're busy. >> He He's still the one that's going to be embarrassed here. I wouldn't worry about that. >> Also, I'm confused because like I'm pretty sure like every school district is different, but are teachers giving out their personal cell phone numbers?

And if so, like then why are you you aren't getting a response? >> No, but everything is like text these days. is like I think it's crazy like stores are texting me all the time. Are you are you finding this? >> Yeah. >> Like randomly when I'm shopping in New York when I shopped at Mage and then Rag and Bone, they're texting the salesperson that helped me is texting me, which I think is a little out of pocket. I don't think you should be able to text me.

I didn't sign up for text, but there I'm getting personal messages from the store. My point is just like restaurants like everything is like text. So it feels it feels like he's texting. This is like the way a hotel texts you when you're in the hotel. >> I think it's an automated service. It's not automated. Like it's going somewhere, but it's not some something that's texting back. I guess I'm kind of going off on a tangent cuz I've been meaning to ask you, are you getting texts from [ __ ] stores? >> Yeah, but that doesn't feel weird to me.

That's just like you're just in their system now. But I didn't tell you you could text me. Rag and bone. I think it automatically like when when you pay for something, I think it automatically links it. >> But they're personal. Hey Ashley, it was so it was great to help you find those jeans. Man, I didn't give you my a personal staff member is texting. >> Yes. And this one lady at like one of the Was it Was it Mage? I think which we had a great >> Is that how you say that? >> Shopping experience.

Maj I I'm asking you. I have no idea. I don't I would never I would never be brave enough to say that word out loud. >> You're so brave. >> Like I appreciate it. We had a nice She was really helped me style something, but she was like, "Hey, this is so and so. Come back. See you next time." Like I'm like, "Wait, don't make me respond to that. I don't I have enough." >> That's got to be automated though cuz that's who's logged into the system when they're checking at it. completely personalized.

My name, her name, and what I bought. >> Yeah, but that's automated. That's totally automated. Yes. Whoever is logged in to the store and they know who checked you out and they know what you bought cuz the receipt. >> Let me read it. >> I know that you like these personalized emails. I know you like them for our company, too. >> Wait, wait, don't insult me. >> You like them. >> Let's have people weigh in on everything.

Here it is. Okay, read it. Hello, Ashley. Stop. >> You use your credit card. Let me finish. >> You use your credit card? >> Are you going to let me finish? I'm going to let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best albums. >> You're not even ready. >> Okay. >> Hello, Ashley. Thank you for stopping in to shop with us. It was great meeting you. I hope the comedy special taping went well. Please see us again the next time you were in the neighborhood, Nancy. >> Okay, I'm corrected.

How much did you talk to this person? >> You know how crazy that whole thing was? Me trying to find Yeah. And then I didn't end up wearing them, but Nancy was so wonderful. I kept the pants. I've since worn them, but like they were like my backup pants that I was going to wear. It's a whole thing when you guys see it eventually. One of these days, like it's a whole thing. >> It took me a second. I was like, "Wait, what?" They're like, "Oh, right.

You shot a special months ago." No, I promise. But no, so like we were on a journey together. I went in there one day, we picked him out, I told her to hold them, and I went back and got them. Like Nancy and I were like this and I really do appreciate her touching base. >> That is crazy. >> But I'm telling you, that's personal. >> No, that's really like that's taken it too far. Well, I don't want to insult that. I had a great experience.

Apparently, this is not this is the norm. I mean, I have stores that will text me and say like, "Hey, Raina, thanks for buying whatever the [ __ ] Text stop to have us stop doing this." This is just somebody's cell phone number. Did you invite her to your special taping? Like, what happened? I probably And let me see the Ragbo one. And again, I had a great experience and I appreciated the text. Honestly, I just am like wondering if people >> Okay, this is not happening to me.

I'm not that friendly. Okay. I think people probably would assume I'm friendlier. I'm not. Okay. But anyway, let me know if you that's happening to you guys. But again, that's not a dig towards them. I like did appreciate like we were we developed a relationship over those couple days in my desperate times. >> Yeah. Sometimes you just feel closer to like a store employee and they text you. >> But obviously they are allowed to do that.

Are they? >> No. It happens with Alice and Olivia all the time. >> I've been in Alice and Olivia with you and you will become friends with every person who's been in store. >> Every time we leave Alice and Olivia. Hey girl. Great helping you out today. Come back and see us. I'm telling you, this is happening all the time. you people like you. You were very friendly in those stores. The Austin, Alice, and Olivia, you and Zach were the sickest thieves.

I was like, "Can we go?" I feel like that's how I got on that friends and family list. >> You two were kiking in that store for 30 minutes. I was like, "Can we leave?" >> Yeah. Again, I just I don't mind it. I just didn't know if like I thought there might be like a privacy concern that they're just texting customers. But let us know in the comments. And then also let us know what you guys think about what Raina is dealing with.

I need to know. I need the parents to weigh in. Some people are gonna be mad at me and be like, "This is a kid and he needs to eat." >> Obviously, he's eating. But like, and listen, and I know that we're all proud of a dad for like doing something. We're proud of him for like driving his kid to school. Like, yay. Clap for the dads for like doing something that moms do every day. But I don't know. I just I don't feel like texting this guy back. >> Just do it cuz I want to hear what he has to say.

And now you want me to say, "Sorry, what do I say? >> Hey, LOL. This is the wrong number." Just you got to throw an LOL in. >> Hey, this is the wrong >> Hey, I think you have the wrong number. Lol. >> Now I'm all mixed up. Okay, I think you have >> watching what she's doing right now. I've never seen you try to do this. You're trying to keep the mic between your tits. >> Rain is titty [ __ ] the mic while she texts this guy back. >> LOL feels so rude. >> No.

Oh, really? Oh, I was doing it to soften. >> Otherwise, it's a little >> wrong number. Lol. Yes, you guys. LOL. Right. >> It's sent. >> Did it turn blue? It says deliver it and it's blue. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. I was just curious what he was texting with. What dads are using these days? We should ask Jeremy. The way Jeremy was like obviously that's somebody's kid. How is that obvious to you? I'm really smart and a woman and I it was not obvious to me. >> Wait.

And a woman. Like we're usually not >> like I'm the one that would have the kid. I see what you're saying. I thought you meant those two didn't go together. Like, guys, I'm really smart and I know I'm a woman, so it's crazy. >> You know us with our stupid, silly woman brains. Can't figure out anything. Okay. Well, we have one more email that we have had in the inbox for a while that we really want to discuss. Should we go over it? >> I'm not reading it.

Yeah. >> Okay. Sorry, she's so smart. Okay. So, >> you guys know I don't read. That's jobier. >> I liked the um the intro about you. >> What? the intro part about you. >> Oh, is it Was it about me? >> I think it just said something like sparkle eyes something something. Okay. >> Said something about Boston. >> Oh, yeah, it is about me. I'll definitely read that part. Okay. So, >> all right. I was trying to find the subject line.

The subject line is sleeping in/ waking up early in relationships. You posted this in the outline. You took out the part about me. Well, I just want to like get to the point. >> I thought you already No, there's a Delaware connection. She's been to the show in Boston where I met Shashank. So anyway, she's a longtime fan. I we love when you guys also say those nice things when you email us. >> Listen, I just I was I was letting us digest it privately. >> Anyway, she says, "I know you guys have talked about this before, but I'd be Have we?

I don't know. I mean, maybe not really in depth, so buckle up, okay? Have talked about this before, but I'd be interested to see what your followers think about sleep. It's necessary. >> Never met her." >> Yeah. I have been with my fiance for 11 years. We're getting married this July. and I am so in love with him. That said, am I toxic? Because I legit love getting up early. I love starting the day when the sun rises and I jump out of bed every morning because I love life so much.

What a brag. >> I love life so much >> in this in 2026. Do you? But this 31-year-old man can literally sleep until noon. Okay. They've been together since they were 20, by the way. Like she he's 31. So I mean this this is like a I find that fascinating. Together when you're 20, you're still you're going to get married. You're in your 30s. This 31-year-old man can literally sleep until noon. And when we were in college, that was fine because everyone did, and I was the outlayer who wanted to start my day.

But now that we're real adults, I feel frustrated that I'm jumping out of bed early to rock and roll, and he needs a reason to be up in order to emerge earlier than 9:00 a.m. Most Saturdays, if we have to leave the house by 10:00 a.m. for a planned event, I have to wake him up. This is the only part of life where I feel like I'm parenting this person. He is otherwise self-sufficient, self-starting, and can do life on his own.

We just get to be partners in it. I recently read an article called the oppression of morning people and how we're so annoying. So, I need to know, am I annoying? Like, should I just let this man sleep and be happy I got a good one instead of finding the one thing I don't understand to nitpick? Or is it fair to question why my man isn't jumping out of bed to live life like I am? I'd be interested to hear what your listeners think. >> If this is the only problem, >> if this is truly if this is the only thing you you dig deep and you ask yourself, she I mean, for her to write, I am so in love with him after 11 years.

It is rare. >> It's rare. Listen, I I like to get up really early. I get up 6 o'clock on the weekdays, 7:30 on the weekends. I like to get up really early. I like the morning when no one's talking to me. But like my that's my version of rest. Like I go to sleep really early, too. So like my version of relaxation recharging is go to bed early, get up early. That's not everybody's version of relaxation. I think that like it's sleep is so important and feeling like you've like distressed from the week.

I don't know what his job is, but if this is really the only problem, I understand her feeling like, man, this sucks. This is the only couple days we get together and you're you're asleep all day. >> Yeah. I mean, I have so many things to say and Rain and I talked about this privately, too. And >> it would be tough to be with somebody that really and I'm not as I'm not a morning person. I'm not as up as early as you, but it would be tough to be with somebody who went to sleep till noon.

Like >> noon is not the same as >> 10. Yeah. She's saying she has to wake him up if they have to do something at 10:00. Here's my question. Does he get up easily or is he like grumbling and he wants to sleep more? Like is he an easygoing guy? Like does he know that like sometimes he has to get up early and do stuff with you? I also wonder what their nights are like. Is she going to bed a lot earlier? I mean I curious with everything about their week and if they do both work traditional 9 toive jobs and then they only have the weekends together.

I mean vacations this is when it would bother me. We've talked about this before, like I do get up earlier on vacations, traditional vacations where not just like work trips like but I want to experience and do things and maximize my time but she's that really early person like we have that friend in our college friends group like even when we were all waking up so hung over like Alex was up and she'd been on a run and she is that person that like love her to death.

She's like, she knows she's that person and she's not waking anybody else up. But when this girl asks like, "Am I annoying?" It's like, we all have that friend. I don't find it annoying at all. But when we would all wake up, Alex is in the kitchen with her running clothes on and has been on a run. And I think it's like she knows she's got to get up early and she's going to do stuff before the rest of the world wakes up.

And I guess my advice to her is how she can reframe her mornings. Like, can she just kind of tell herself like, "I've been with this man for 11 years. I'm going to be with him till the end of time." like those mornings are my solo time and I really want to savor them. Like you wake up and you do your stuff and you like being alone. Like can she reframe it to be like I like that he's sleeping in cuz I get to do these things for myself.

And then I'm curious what the rest of their day looks like. Like once he gets out of bed, is he willing to go do stuff? Like is he like a lazy guy? It doesn't really sound like that. It sounds like it's just the getting up. >> Yeah. I mean some people have the ability to sleep until noon. I've never been like that. And like all my friends that have had partners like that, they make brunch plans with other friends and they make coffee plans and take walks.

And I love the advice of just like that's your solo time. You should enjoy it. I guess I'm curious if they live in a house or an apartment cuz like I live in a house now. I could be downstairs making all the noise in the world and I don't really hear it upstairs like when somebody stays with me. If somebody gets up before me like you don't hear stuff, but like an apartment it would be like out of the question for me in my New York apartments to like turn on the TV and cook and do stuff cuz you're like bother. >> Oh that's the worst. if she feels like she has to tiptoe around.

But if I were to guess, I don't think she feels like that. I think he thinks he knows he's going to sleep in and she's up and I'm sure she is able to get up and live her life. I like what you said, too. Like, if you are that person, get up, find a friend to go have breakfast with. But my question is just how he is the rest of the time. She says he's self-sufficient, self-starting, and can do life on his own. If she's asking if it's a red flag that he's a night person that he wants to sleep in, no. all these studies that show that sometimes more creative people are night people.

Like, does he go to bed at 900 p.m. and he has to sleep till noon? He might need to see a doctor or but does he stay up late and he wakes up late? It's just sometimes how we're wired. Like, I have really worked on it, but I know that naturally I am a person that functions better staying up a little later and not waking up at the crack of dawn. I'll never do it. My body rejects it completely when I have to wake up that early.

It doesn't even really matter how much sleep I've had. I feel sick when I have to get up so early for a flight. I've realized what's the earliest I can even take a flight these days at this age that I can function the next day. Like >> I don't know. It's just kind of who we who we are, how we're built. I wonder what time they go to sleep at night too. Like did she go to sleep a little bit earlier with him? And like this is just one of those things that I'm like when people say to me like we don't we had an episode last week about fighting like we don't have any disagreements at all.

Like I'm always like you're not like a little annoyed at somebody every once in a while. Like to me this is just like something that's a little bit annoying about your partner, but like we're all a little bit annoying. So is this the only annoying thing about him? >> Yeah. Or does she feel like he actually doesn't want to live life to the fullest? He can totally be a person that loves life. He just wants to start life at 10 a.m.

Like it doesn't necessarily mean that. But she has to ask herself that like am I writing this email and trying to get advice from these girls because my question is deeper than this and I'm just kind of masking it with the morning stuff or not. So that's for her to decide. But if this really is it and once he gets up he's reliable and he'll go do stuff then I don't think it's certainly a dealbreaker of this 11-year relationship. >> I'm curious what his job is too.

Like I think about something like my brother who gets up at like 4:30 5:00 in the morning to go to work. He works in finance and then doesn't get home till like 6:00 p.m. Like my brother is like out at work for like 12 hours a day. And so on the weekends like if somebody wants to sleep in I you have to just kind of let them that's like their recharge time. And it would annoy me if somebody was constantly like get up, get up, get up cuz like I deserve to relax as much as you do. >> Yeah, totally.

I mean I do want to validate though that this can be an issue in relationships. I mean with Shashank like we he was going in at 9:00 and that worked really well for us. He wants to get up at like 7:30 and then we were having like coffee together in the morning. It was like really nice and now he is going in at 8:00 and we don't do that anymore. Like I am getting up sometimes when he's leaving. Like I like to be up and moving by 8.

I try and he's gone. So we just had to be like we're not doing that unless things change. Like I can't get up at at 7 or 6:30. like just I that doesn't work for me. >> Yeah. You're on the night shift. >> Yeah. And so we're you know we still go to bed together nine nights out of 10. But it's just kind of like I don't know if if he had to get up every morning at 5:30 and the alarm went off and it woke me up and I had trouble going back to sleep.

It would be a real problem. I also like again I'm not suggesting you have any problems. If this is the only problem, great. Go for it. You're killing it. It's amazing to have been with somebody for that many years from the time you were 20 because like she's saying like this used to be a different lifestyle choice. Everybody in college in your early 20s is kind of like a piece of trash and you sleep all day. And I think that's the hard part about relationships like that was when you meet somebody they're just in a very different stage of life and you hope to grow up together. >> And some people do hit that age where they're just like we just are in we're in different phases of life kind of.

Yeah. And we talked about this with drinking recently. When you do get together this young and let's just say you're drinking and partying a lot and then you grow up and one person stays in that drinking, partying, getting drunk, blacking out, being hung over lifestyle and the other person doesn't and can you work that out? And this is I mean we just are not who we are in our 20s versus our 30s versus our 40s and so on.

So, if they really have grown together since 20 >> and everything else is aligned and she can still say, "I'm so in love with him." And she's really excited to marry him and like this is it. I would say just figure out how you have to reframe your mornings. Let him live and good luck. >> I agree. We solved it. >> Mhm. Good luck out there. >> Okay. All right. Well, let's just thank our partners and then we'll get into it with Nedra.

Yes. This show is sponsored by Liquid IV. We are such fans of it. So this is going to be your maximum hydration. It is scientifically formulated to support physical energy, hydration, focus, mood, and social stamina. It has natural caffeine and electrolytes, five essential vitamins, fast hydration, and three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink. So you were just going to rip open a stick of liquid IV and put it in your glass of 16 ounces of water.

We like really ice cold water and so we always share our personal experiences with liquid IV. Raina put them all in the gift bags at her 40th birthday at Raina Palooa. I put them all in the gift bags of my for my wedding because this is really what you need to get through a marathon weekend like that. Like >> I also just wasn't feeling very well on Sunday and so I just put some in water and it just like made me feel a little bit better. >> Totally.

So we are such fans of it. You can get the sugar-free as well. I stick to the standard. I like lemon lime, grapefruit, and guava are my favorite flavors. But if you guys want to do sugar-free, they have strawberry, kiwi, blackberry, lemonade, and guava pomegranate. All is just so delicious. I really do love their flavors. There's no like aftertaste. They taste really naturally like the the fruit or whatever the flavor is.

And so, we just love that. We love the benefits. And again, like we said, just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. So, you guys can show up with better hydration and energy from Liquid IV. Zero sugar and zero crash. Tear, pour, live more. Go to liquid iv.com and get 20% off your first order with code gigg at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code gge at liquid ivy.com. And you guys are always asking me how I decorated my home.

I might be decorating a new home soon. Article makes it article makes it effortless to create and style long- lasting homes at unbeatable prices. So, they've been a longtime partner of ours. I really, really love their furniture and decor. They do a great job. The prices are unbelievable. So, if you go on the site and see what they have, my house is mostly like coastal and sort of bohemian, but they have mid-century modern as well.

They have Scandi inspired pieces, and you can see how they style everything. Also, their Instagram and their website is a wealth of information and photos of how other people, like customers, have styled everything together. There's meticulous packaging. The weight and feel of the products is great. It comes mostly assembled, and it's just a really nice quality for an unbelievable price, truly. And I'm just thinking like, you know, what do you want to do right now?

It's cozy season. Let's get a new couch. So, I'm looking at this Beta 98 in modular sectional in Cypress green. I'm really enjoying like green tones right now. My gosh, seriously. They have a lot of the options. They have linen couches. They have velvet. They have leather. But I'm just liking these like really like warm, lovely, like cozy couches now. And they have fast, affordable shipping and assembly across US and Canada.

They have great support whenever you need it. So, the team is available 7 days a week offering knowledgeable support. And they have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. So, if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you could easily return it. If you're in the market for a new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com. >> Okay. And Revolve. Oh my god, Raina. What are you shopping for right now on Revolve? >> I just ordered actually the entirety of my tour outfits from Revolve.

So, >> totally. I feel you on that. >> We're going to a bachelorette party, which we just got back from, and I just want like different cute tops for the tour. So, I just did like a giant haul. There's obviously tons of brands and styles and there is nothing better than their shipping time which is two days usually and their customer support. I mean I love all of it. >> It's the best. Yeah. So for Alyssa's Bachelorette, she did some themes and just color.

Nothing crazy, but like one night was like a neutrals and nudes theme which I was obsessed with. So I got right on Revolve and searched by brown and beige and whatever. Yeah, you can search sets by color and of course they have their different collections and stuff. So you can shop by vacation. So, I was looking at their vacation shop clothing for the was stuff that we were going to wear in this boat. And I mean, everything I'm I'm wearing for that weekend will be from Revolve.

So, anything that you guys need, I mean, these jeans are on Revolve or they used to be. They're a little older, but they are Paige, so they have all your great denim brands. So many different incredible brands. I mean, >> I did Resza for my tour tops, RSA, and AFRM for a lot of like little dresses and tops. >> Yes, I love Lovers and Friends. They have Amanda Up, Norma Kamali, a Goldie, Superdown. That's like a Revolve brand.

It's really affordable. Really cute stuff. Free people. There is new arrivals daily inclusive sizing with options from extra extra small up to 4X. We just love it. It's the best customer service. So easy to do returns and exchanges. And again, that fast free shipping. You just cannot beat it. It is just a go-to for everything. And you can get all your clothes for any special event, wedding, night out, vacation, the whole thing.

So whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or just a muchneeded wardrobe refresh, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com/g. Shop our edit and take 15% off your first order with code GGE. Fast 2-day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com/ggge to shop our favorites and get 15% off your first order with code GGE. Okay? And the offer ends February 19th.

So shop now. They don't do this a lot. We say this every time, but take advantage of that deal, that 15% off, and it is going to end February 19th. revolve.com/gg. And now we will get into it. All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guest back for a three repeat. She is a therapist and a highly soughtafter relationship expert, plus the author of two New York Times bestsellers, Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and Dramafree.

I think soon to be threetime New York Times bestseller of her new book, The Balancing Act. Please welcome to the show My Boundaries Queen, >> Nedra Glover Tab. >> Thank you for having me. Such a warm welcome. You should wake me up in the morning. I need to record that so I can You could be like my alarm. >> Like the opposite of the calm app, the Get Hype app. Wake the [ __ ] up, [ __ ] I've got your third bestseller in the way. >> Now, Dire, I feel like I tell you this every time we record. probably quote you the most of any gu you and Esther Pel >> the most of any guest.

Do you think that that's accurate? >> 100%. >> Just in in conversation all the time I talk about you. >> I like you've changed Raina's life. >> Yeah. >> Is that A JOKE? DON'T LAUGH. >> Who was she before me? >> Exactly. >> I mean was she even Raina? >> No. I don't remember Pedra Raina. >> Right. Who does? >> Yeah. like fix a lot of stuff. >> Like if a week has gone by and she hasn't brought you up for the last 3 years, two years. >> I appreciate it. >> Yes.

Yes. Well, I'm sure you've changed a lot of people's lives and you I joke that you're the boundaries queen, but like you really taught us and a nation about boundaries and this has become such a buzzword and then your follow-up book was specifically boundaries with family members. And this is kind of a pivot, the balancing act. And it's well tell us about it. Tell us about the book and the pivot into a sort of a new topic >> and inspiration. >> A pivot.

Um I see it as an integration of how to do boundaries and dependency. Well, >> great because I think that there is this idea that for some of us that boundaries apply to everybody in every single way and all the time. And in this book I am saying there are actually healthy ways to be dependent. There are things that we have to do as a byproduct of being in a relationship with people. It's not always convenient. It's not always fun, but it needs to be done.

Yes, codependency is not always great, but aren't we happy when the codependent has someone else and not us? Like they need people too, >> you know? So, I think we need to look at this as a fuller picture in terms of boundaries and not just like boundaries for me and no one else. So I do some talking about like what if a friend wants space with you? What if what if your partner wants some space? You know, we we have heard so much about like I need I need I need we're in community and unfortunately we're in a loneliness epidemic.

Not just because of boundaries, but you know, we're more inside. The world is more virtual and we are just losing connection. So, I want to help people feel better connected without the stress of I don't know how I'm going to be in this relationship because I either go in with no boundaries or I'm codependent or I have this problem. Like, you can do it. I'm I'm rooting for you. You can be in these relationships without losing your mind.

Well, we have a lot to talk about, especially on the dependency, healthy dependency, codependency. But since you brought it up, let's talk about this concept that we discussed on an episode a few weeks back about everyone wants a village, but no one wants to be a villager. And we want to ask you, boundaries queen, are people over boundaried? >> Some people are. I've never seen us all do this in the middle of an episode. >> I know.

I have that effect. >> Yeah. the outfit >> in some instances we are over boundary but I also think that when we haven't practiced something we go at it very hard >> and there is this like high and then we sort of like smooth out >> and many of us because boundaries is such a new practice and we're like yes I have the juice now and we're giving everybody the boundary we're not doing it softly sometimes we're doing it aggressively and not assertively we're overdoing it in some instances.

So, it it does happen, but but I would say it's a it's a good thing to have boundaries. It always has been. But I do think we need to consider who, what, where, how. Well, we asked you if someone just doesn't want to show up to your birthday party, is that a boundary? Like when where's the misuse coming in for when it comes to not showing up for your community? M so if I Nedra Tawa was to not show up to a friend's party I would one send them a message with the reason why two I would let them well before that I would let them know in advance so you are already not expecting me there >> and two I want to let you know why because I care about this relationship I'm not coming just because I don't want to be there I'm not coming because I'm out of town or I have something else booked that day that I can't get out of.

And three, one of the things that I think is really important is repair. So, if I'm not coming to your birthday party, hey girl, can we grab a coffee next week? Can we have dinner separately? I still want to celebrate your your birthday. I just won't be able to make this thing. >> What ruins relationships is, and I've been in this situation, people no call, no show. >> They no call, no show. They act like nothing happened.

Then they're texting you, "Have you watched his and hers? You ain't even come to my birthday party." >> Forget it. I'm so confused. >> Like, yeah. Like, you have to keep your people in the fo. You have to keep them in the loop. And these are not toxic relationships. Like, I I think some boundaries apply to toxic situations, toxic relationships. But if you're applying a boundary where it doesn't need to be, you're not using it using it for its intended purpose. >> Mhm.

Some people are a little fast and loose. And I mean, it's a real trigger for me like when we have live shows and we include people in it. We give people tickets and we invite them and like it's happened once or twice to me with a friend that like the night of the show they'll be like, "Hey girl, I can't come." Anyways, have a great show. I'm like, "Are you going to >> or no apologize to me?" taking money out of my pocket, taking a seat away from somebody that would have used it, treating something that's important to me like it doesn't matter.

All those things really, but like Yeah, you could cancel plans on me if you do it ahead of time and not when I'm about to walk on stage and act like you don't care. >> Yeah, >> that's the trigger for me. >> Yeah, I I lost a friendship once because I had a friend who was always on her way to the thing but never showed up. >> That's crazy. What happened, girl, on the way? >> Are you alive? >> But was she on She wasn't really on. >> Yeah.

Hey, I'm I'm on my way. It's like, but she never showed up. Like, what happened on the way? So, after she did that a few times, she lost her invite privilege. >> Yeah. >> You're no longer on the list. And then that's when she's like, hey, you didn't invite me to the thing. And I had to say very clearly, you don't show up. >> Right. >> You don't show up. >> That's not an insult. That's just >> that's just the fact. And that doesn't mean I don't want to be your friend anymore.

So, here's the thing. I think sometimes we have these conflicts and in instead of it just being a conflict, we take it as the relationship is over. No, no, >> you're just not invited because you have not proven that you'll show up. If you want to regain privileges, you need to work on that. >> I don't need to help you through that because a lot of times if I'm planning something, I'm accounting for food. I'm accounting for entertainment sometimes, >> you know, like these things cost.

So you not showing up still cost me $100, >> right? >> Because I I have a wedding in advance. What do I say? Hey, hey, that money that I gave you, give me some back. They not coming. >> No, but like some people I think are like, it's my boundary. And it's like, this is just a crack of [ __ ] Don't therapy language me into your bad behavior >> or you're just tired or or you had a long day, but that's life. Like that's what we talked about in our podcast.

Like we understand if you are going to show up to a social event and have a panic attack, >> but if you just are a little tired or it's a minor inconvenience, I I'm still showing up. That's I want to be the friend that shows up if it's not the thing I want to do the most in that moment. >> Well, two things here. One thing is I recently had a friend and I already knew this about her, but I'm so happy she said it. I do not invite her to things where it's going to be 10 or more people.

I personalitywise, I know she's going to dislike it. It's not her vibe. So, recently she said to me, "If it's going to be other people there, I don't want to go. So, just include me for one-on-one things," >> which is on brand for her because she will she'll let you know in advance. She'll let you know, she'll give you some reason. She follows up with an independent thing. She does all the the right protocol. But after a while, I it's just like she doesn't want to be here. >> She doesn't want to be at a large gathering.

She's like, I prefer a one-on-one experience. >> So, she doesn't care about being invited to the birthday party, the dinner. She's like, I don't want to be here anyway. Please don't make me come. >> Exactly. And and for her it's like I feel our connection one on one and not with yes 14 people around and you're going and you're talking and and I'm okay with that because I have other friends who will come to every single thing.

I'm not saying that every friend has to do the same thing. Our connection is very deep despite her not doing that. >> Totally. The other thing is what is a boundary? It is a need. I wouldn't say is necessarily a rule, but it's something to keep you safe and comfortable in your relationships with other people. I think sometimes when you have a preference, is is the preference a need? >> Is this a a rule that maybe you have or is it a boundary?

And I think there needs to be some distinction in how you're you're saying it. But the boundary of I won't come to your party but I go to other parties. Is that really a boundary >> or is that a preference for your party in particular? And if so, can we communicate something about that? >> We love this. >> Yeah, I can talk about this for the rest of the time, but we want to talk about your book. So the book is about creating healthy dependency.

So, could you maybe talk a little bit about like what is what's quote unquote healthy versus non-healthy? And then we can get into the subcategories of like codependency, but broadly what does dependency look like? >> And I do really want your definition of codependency cuz I feel like I have still can't seem to get a grasp on that word. >> Well, let's talk about healthy and and unhealthy and like get into these like subtopics. >> Yeah.

Well, codependency when is when you are helping in a counterproductive way >> to another person. there is some emotional tie to that situation that really gets in the way of your growth and the other person's growth. The word codependency became popular from the AA community, right? So, it became a thing in that community around like people who have helped us stay addicts are codependent with us and sometimes I've been codependent in helping people in their addiction.

So I'm giving them money. I am, you know, um >> enabling >> enabling. I am, you know, so it it sort of came out of that branch of things. >> However, we can be codependent in other ways. You can be codependent in a friendship. You can give people so much advice that you're like, "Oh my gosh, every time they have a problem, they have to call me and I'm on the phone for 4 hours problem solving." So that can also be codependency.

So it's really attached to a negative or unhealthy behavior of some sort. Enshment would be another form of not necessarily codependency but a unhealthy dependency. In meshment, I will say, is only problematic when the people start to pull apart from each other. So it's really not a problem until you like go home and you meet your partner's family and you find out that he sleeps in a bed with his mom, >> right? Okay.

And we do want to talk about enshed families and friendships. >> Yeah. And you're like, "Oh, wow." Or you notice that they have this whole cuddle situation going together on the, you know, on the couch and you're like, "Wow, like we typically hold hands, but I didn't know you like really get in there with your mom." Like, so then it's like, "Wow." And it's like, "Yeah, this is how it is." And mom is calling all times of the day.

And so that's when it starts to be a problem because now you're like, "Oh my gosh, my partner cannot separate from his mom or from his family." So >> imshment is one of those things where if two people agree to it, >> totally >> no problem. >> Yep. Yeah. >> It's not until one of the folks decides, I want something different or typically when somebody else comes into that dynamic and it's like, >> what am I watching? Mhm. >> It's like, >> right, someone challenges them. >> Yeah.

It's like, what am I seeing? So, it's it's normal for your mom to cut your food. >> We're like brothers and sisters or >> brothers and sisters. >> Best best friends. >> I see a lot of best friends. I mean, Ashley and I are business part. We're so imshed in each other's lives. We have the same friend groups. I spent holidays with her family and we're in business together almost a decade. We have a second business. >> Yeah.

It would be a real problem for me if I didn't like like her partner. I mean, I can't it's my worst nightmare in the world that like I wouldn't like love the person she was married to. >> But I mean, the scenario I feel like you see more often would have been that he came around whether you liked him or not and you were really jealous and you were like calling me all the time where aren't you like it just and we've all seen that and I think that happens a lot when you're younger too.

This happened not at all by this way. I'm just kind of the scenario would have been you freaking out. >> Yeah. like Regina George and she was like and then all of a sudden in seventh grade I got a boyfriend and she was like why didn't you call me back? >> Yeah, she was in love with me, right? >> I can see that in like friendships with with people that are very close. >> There's more to the unhealthy. I think those are some of the things we're more familiar with.

But also on the unhealthy spectrum is hyperindependence. >> When we do not accept help, we do not ask for help. We have this spirit of DIY. Okay, >> anything that needs to be done, I can do it. I am self-sufficient. And what happens in those cases is when you actually need someone, you struggle to find anybody because you have disconnected so much or you are just without resources. >> Do you think that comes from people that like grew up in a household where like it help wasn't available to them so they became super independent >> sometimes?

But I think all our wounds aren't always childhood. But >> maybe that could be it. But what if you what if you were in >> I don't know a dating scenario where your partner made you feel that way and so now going forward you like question it about yourself like I think there's any sort of >> traumatic impact that could have happened to sort of change the way that you open your arms to people and sometimes it is really a protection >> because you have been hurt by people whether that's the family or other folks and so it it may seem easier it may seem seem u more appropriate for you to figure it out rather than lean on other people or go to them for any support.

I love that you said that it's not just from your parents and that a partner can like rock your sense of self cuz I had a girlfriend recently who we're friends with and a relationship and her ex said to her like you're totally dependent on me and I have to do everything for you. And I it really rocked her sense of self and I was like that's not what you're like. This is how this person has made me feel >> but you're so independent.

You're so I mean she's just I don't know. I like that you said that some a partner can rock your sense of self cuz that's how they see you through that lens, but that's not how we see her at all. >> Yeah. >> Helpless. >> I mean I and like I can see a world in which maybe innately someone has always been super independent and they finally let the walls down and they leaned on someone and they got burned. And I mean I you would just never want to do it again.

Whether it was a a family member or a friend or a partner where you're like, "Okay, I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to reach my hand out and ask for help." and you felt some sort of like it wasn't what you expected or you felt rejected. So, I can understand why you wouldn't want to do that again. >> Well, different people, if we're meeting different people, we're not dating the same person. We're not meeting the same friend.

We can't get that sister or that brother again in this lifetime. If we're meeting new people, there is the potential for us to practice what we learned. You are aware of those indicators of a person who will use certain things to their advantage and not yours. You are aware of a person who will >> maybe call you needy or do these things. So I I understand that our natural reaction is just to retreat and to forget that we even have that need because it's been, you know, thrown in our face or it's been abused or we haven't figured it out.

But, you know, I think it's really important to reclaim that that we can be needy and and that's a healthy thing when I think about neediness. Like, you know, I'll have a client here and there be like, am I being too needy? And I'm like, it depends on the person you're talking to. >> Some people love to talk on the phone every day, and that's not needy at all. Others do not. >> So, I don't want you to feel like that behavior is inappropriate.

For some people, it doesn't work. It doesn't mean they're bad people, but if you have enough people in your life, you won't even notice the person who who doesn't like that thing because you have seven other people to talk to, >> right? The village. You need the village. >> So true. I mean, there are pe I don't read myself as needy, but like there's probably some people that would see my need to send all these voice notes all day long, talk about all my thoughts and feelings as needy or annoying.

That's not true. That's not my person. And some people love them. People generally love them for >> like I love this point. You know how you can act with certain friends? Like I'm thinking of the way that we again we're best friends. Let's just take us out of it. I have friends that um I have a friend that like she is just she's bad on text and she's not always available and I really love her and I can rely on her but I kept if I thought I could text and voice note with her all day the way I do with you, I would be >> sorely mistaken.

Like I would be rejected and let down. So we all kind of have to pick up on the way people communicate and want to be your friend. Yes. Yes. And if you're not getting enough, you're not getting anything at all and you feel like someone you can't rely on somebody that's different. But I think the communication is I think about that. I have friends that I'm like, I can't I can't be like that with them. That would be crazy.

Or sometimes I've beaten a dead horse so much with one audience and I need to move on to a new audience. >> Yeah. I had someone tell me, you know, my expectation is that if people can't respond to a text that they text me and say that they can't respond or look at it and I was like, what? So, they have to respond even if they can't to say they can't respond. Yeah. It's like they ghosted me. If I text you at 12:00 and I text you about this scenario and by 4:00 you haven't said anything, you should at least look at it and say, "I see this." I think you'd start to I don't know.

You start to pick up on people's communication. I have friends I've made here and they are slower to text. We might it might be a day, >> but they're doing other stuff. They're working. They have emails. Like I think I've learned to expect more that we don't get immediate responses from people all the time. >> Sometimes I'm like I have all these DMs and now what you've given me an art project. I have to respond to all this.

You decided to communicate with me. I did not communicate with you. >> And so sometimes I need to get through my day before I'm available to respond to this cuz you decided to communicate with me, not the other way around. >> Yeah. So, it's it's really about managing our expectations and not putting that on other people to always fulfill our needs because of our expectations. Like sometimes we have to adjust based on the person.

It doesn't mean that they're toxic. It doesn't mean they're emotionally unavailable, but it might mean that they didn't have their phone in their hand for eight hours, >> right? It it might mean that, you know, they had a busy day and they want to decompress by not looking at a bunch of, you know, messages that or they might not have an answer, you know, like I think when you're making plans, it's like >> sometimes people need to check their schedule.

They need to see if they can make it. And some people might write, "I'll get back to you." And some people might not. And that's okay. >> I like this idea that we can show up as different people in different relationships, too. And I wonder like what you would call this, but like I had one relationship when I was my early 20s who's like my first boyfriend in New York. And I've always been a pretty independent person.

I could figure things out myself. I think of myself as very like type A. But I had this boyfriend who was pretty controlling. He made the decisions for everywhere we went, where we would eat, all the things. I felt like he was he made me feel like he was smarter than me. >> I do relate to this being a very young trait as well. I was 22 or 23 in this relationship, but I really became this version of myself that was so dependent on him for like my thoughts and feelings and my ideas.

And I don't identify as that, but like I suddenly needed to defer to another person for how I thought and felt. and that was really outside of my body and I've never since or before experienced that. But like I showed up as a different person in that relationship because of that person and I guess that's codependency kind of. Um yes it it it is codependency but it brings me to u thought about attachments which I talk about in this book and so you know a lot of people may believe that your attachment is fixed right like if you have an anxious attachment that's how you are in every relationship and what you're saying is different relationship different me there are some people who we meet in the world where they show up a certain way and we respond to that he wanted to be the leader he wanted to be in charge he wanted to be the smarter person.

So you showed up as this like I don't know anything and and you went with that, right? So that doesn't mean you're always that way. It doesn't mean just because you're avoidant in one connection that you will always be avoidant. That there is some flexibility in how we show up in spaces. I will say that with attachment styles that, you know, some of them do lend themselves to to maybe a more hyperdependent or hyperindependent when you think about like a disorganized or anxious type of attachment, you're probably going to lean a bit more towards that codependency end of the spectrum.

And when you're more avoidant, you're more hyper independent, right? Like, yeah. So, you know, what is the middle of that? Secure attachment. Mhm. I I think that's comforting for everybody to hear that you can kind of change your attachment style depending on your partner. >> So that type of relationship I want to discuss where let's just say you have a woman who's in a relationship and is feeling like she is becoming dependent. she has lost her independence and she can't live without this person and he or she makes all the decisions and you really have a loss of self and can we kind of discuss what that looks like and how we get there and how we make sure that doesn't happen cuz I think a lot of women are like I wasn't this type of person before.

I don't know what happened to me. I used like your friend we were talking about I used to be independent and make my own decisions and not have my emotions regulated by my partner and here we are. Yeah. Well, maybe this relates, maybe it doesn't, but I want to talk about it. Recently, I have rediscovered my love of playing solitire with playing cards. >> Okay. >> It is so relaxing >> to just get all of these stacks and every seventh game maybe win, right?

I used to do this all the time as a teenager. I would be on the telephone talking to my friends, listening to some music in the background and playing solitire. Like that was my thing. >> I don't know why it was my thing. >> I learned on the computer when I played on the computer. >> Yeah, I I did too. But it's something about playing with the cars that just feels really good. And I started doing it a few weeks ago >> and my husband was like, >> you know, he's like watching me do it and my kids are like, "How do you know?" Cuz I know all these different versions of it with the playing cards and they're like, "How do you know this?" I'm like, >> "I used to do this all the time. >> I don't even know why I stopped." Nobody said, "Hey, stop doing this." It was just like we have it on our phones.

And the reason I rediscover it is a way to use my phone less. Right? So now I'm like, I'm going old school. >> And so sometimes it's not anybody asking us to abandon this part of ourselves. It's us giving it up. >> Mhm. >> Because we think is necessary for this relationship. >> Yeah. I thought with that guy and again I being 22 is very different. I was super young, but he was six years older than me. He made more money. he was more successful in this industry that I wanted to succeed in.

He made me think that all my thoughts and ideas were >> immature and stupid and his were better and he had more experience and I just kind of went with it and there was a lot of good stuff that came with that too. You know, he had a lot of great connections in New York. We were always a great restaurant. Everybody would want to show up at the table and give us free food and he knew a lot of people. He taught me a lot of things.

I got good things from that relationship. But I did just defer to him and I remember feeling like who the [ __ ] is who am I? what happened here. >> So, how do you maintain your independence in a relationship and have the healthy dependency? I guess those are kind of the same. >> Yeah. I think you have to make time for it even when it feels like it's no time. >> Mhm. You have to have those friend dates. You have to have that time with your partner.

You have to have time with your kids. And you have to have time with yourself. very often we try to figure out a way to give this one area a lot of our focus and I think there are times like if your kids are babies or something like that but you know the more they grow up it's like the more freedom you get the longer you're in a relationship with your partner is like the less you have to be imshed it's like okay we've been sitting in each other's faces for a year that's enough right it's like I'm I'm going back to my girls nights you know you have to figure out a way to reinccorporate some of that stuff that you have been holding back on.

And if you never had that stuff and you feel lost, you have to figure out what those things are. You have to give your um village the opportunity to rise to you having other things on your plate and in your schedule. I had a friend last year who is a very busy lady say, "I'm going to do a triathlon." She didn't even know how to swim. She first had to take swim lessons to learn how to swim to do the triathlon. So now she's doing swim lessons multiple times a week and training for a triathlon with three kids.

Busy lady, never had time and she's like, I need to do this for myself. It's a test of my strength. >> So even without having the time, we have to make it because if we don't, we get to, you know, many years and it's like h I never did any of the things I wanted to do. I am not the person I thought I would be and nobody did it to us. You know, sometimes we're doing it to ourselves. But I see how it happens. I don't feel like this about my relationship and I don't think anybody would say that about me, but I see how it can happen.

I see how it can creep up on you. How every night you're together and then if one person has a more robust social life, which would be be me, it's like I don't want to leave him at home. I don't I don't think like this. I'm just saying I can put myself in the shoes of it's like you become so imshed, you have your thing you do every night and then the girls want to go out and you're like, "But I can't." Like I get how it can slowly start to erode that independence.

And so >> it is harder to change once you've gotten into the rut. So it's like never stop the things if you can help it. >> But I also understand you're in a new relationship or you're raising children and you want to commit more time to this thing. But I can see how it happens and you know those people who are like I can't leave him at home and yes you can. What do you my and my parents are a great example of like they've my whole life and they've been married 40 plus years.

They travel separately. They travel together too that not exclusively separately but my mom does her girls trips. She has a million friends. My dad does his ski trips. My mom doesn't ski. And they have always kept those things of their own. >> Separate interests are so important. >> Yes. >> For long-term relationships. There are some couples in the world where they don't need anybody else but each other. >> Yes. There are.

There really are. And if they're happy, that's great. >> And and if that's working for you, that's great. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the people who are like, gosh, we spend every minute together and I would love to have some friends, >> right? >> I feel like I was very heavy in the season of parenting. And I would say about 2 years ago, I was parenting very heavy and I was very busy with work. Probably at the time like four books in, like super busy.

And I had to send a few texts out just acknowledging that I have not been present in some of these relationships. And I see why y'all be on Instagram together and I ain't there cuz I have issued so many nos I can't that I'm no longer on the guest list. >> Yeah. >> And so now that I notice that I will try my best to make myself available for this thing. Give me the day. I'll figure something out. I'm going to try to be there.

And if I can't, again, we're going back to, okay, I couldn't do it that day. Can we do it on this? Can we connect at another time? I'm also initiating the invites. But I have been that person where it's like, oh, everything is going on. I got to go home. My man, my man, my man. The the key is the keys. The key is in work, right? But it's not full. Life is not full. Like I I need some things for myself as well. We all do. >> I feel for people though.

They're like, I have to be a parent. I have to have a relationship with my spouse. I got to work now. I got to work my friends into this. Like, that is so much to take on. I mean, I feel for people that are like, I got to do all these things. >> It is a lot. It's a lot. And even promising yourself like once a month that you'll go out and have something outside of all those people like your job, your spouse, your children, >> I think is great. >> I don't know how I would find the time honestly. >> Yeah.

And I think people understand especially kids. I kids and then for those early days of falling in love and you really want to prioritize that person and my uh best friend since I was a kid has three children. One's a stepchild and she has a special needs son. And she the what she did to make it I'm going to cry to be there for me for every day of the bachelorette, every day of the wedding cuz she came in a day early.

Like I think some people were like is she going to make it? She's cuz they know what she's dealing with and it had to be so planned in advance. The whole family had to rally around and watch the kids cuz her husband came too rally around and watch the kids and like everyone had to step in and make sure she could get away. >> Is she taking new best friends? >> Seriously. I mean, it sound like amazing. >> It meant the world.

And she can't up and go on a trip here and there. She doesn't always have that luxury, but I think those things that meant the world to me. It didn't go unnoticed, of course. And you and all my friends were like, "Wow, she's first person here, last person to leave, and she's got the most on her plate." >> Yeah. >> And sometimes you just have to to to do that. >> Yeah. I I think a part of most relationships is inconvenience.

Mhm. >> If you're not being inconvenience, you might be the problem. >> I like people can't even rely on you, >> right? >> But that's what we talk about the protecting your peace. Has it gone too far? >> Yeah. It's like if No, if if you have not been inconvenience, mirror, mirror on the wall, >> right? Like I do think about Cy like what she had to go through to make that [ __ ] happen. It must have had to be spreadsheets on what parents are coming.

Like it must have been to organize them to get away for four or five days is an insane amount of logistics that same with my brother bringing two kids to LA. All the things, the cars, the car seats, like that [ __ ] is was so much admin for them to come and they made it work. And like he wasn't complaining to me, but we talked about how [ __ ] annoying it is to to do this to show up. >> Yeah. Wow. And and I think even scheduling a night out with friends, you guys are on these texts.

The back and forth >> I can't >> of scheduling with a lady >> I can't >> is like not a lady. >> Let's stop let's let's stop the friendship because we can't even be women. We just have so Oh, no. Oh, not on the 17th because on the 17th at 5 I have this. Oh, no, not on the 27. It's like a constant thing of just trying to get those schedules together. So, when you can get out with that person, it's like what a gift that we we have worked so hard to be here >> worked so hard to be here >> together.

Let's just say together >> we deserve a a reward because we have really strategically >> placed our schedules on the same day. That is that is worthy of praise. >> Yeah. And put your phones away like soak it up cuz it's not going to happen for another year. >> This is our Golden Globes. >> Yes. >> Like this moment is is our award. Our >> Super Bowl. >> I think we've like lost friends to their kids and I am that that's fine.

I'll get them back at some point. you get them back. I'm not I'm not worried about that. You have a past for life. I couldn't do what you do. I don't want to do what you do. It's I spent an hour alone with a kid. It was too much for me. So, cuz you don't want to hang out with kids. That's your boundary. >> That's my boundary. I don't want to hang out with your kid. But for an hour for an hour, it's fine. But like when you lose friends to cuz they are so codependent on their relationship.

It's like really disappointing. We've seen it in our adult I really thought this was like a high school college type thing, but we lost a friend to her relationship. a friend >> and it's pretty crazy to me and I do see how people are like I have wanted love and partnership for so long and I will do anything to protect this is the most important thing in the world but it is so disappointing and I mean I think that you do have to just force yourself to like schedule plans with friends but let's say we have a friend like that it was a great friendship and then they got married or they did whatever and it's like oh my gosh this has really shifted does that mean the friendship is over or is it in another season. >> Exactly. >> Like maybe this is now the friend who you speak to by text four times a year. >> Mhm. >> Or maybe you get together once a year versus you see each other every weekend.

Like it doesn't mean like this person is gone. It's like this is a new iteration of our friendship, right? Like we're we're just doing something different in this season and when this person comes around, you know, maybe I'll be here, maybe I won't. But it doesn't mean that we have to completely lose the connection. It's just in a different place. And if I need that type of friendship with another person, I have to go find that person in the world.

It's not this person anymore. And that's okay. >> And that's for you to decide. Yeah. Cuz when they show up, are they a value ad? You got to are what scale of 1 to 10. Do how much do they bring to the party? Well, I have several friends with no kids who are happily without children and and they don't even want any kids. And I don't try to make them have a relationship where it's like, well, can I bring my kids and my kids want to come out?

It's like our friendship is about us as adults, our history. It doesn't have to be this. I'm never inviting you to my kids' birthday party. Like, it's not my expectation. >> I I love you for that cuz I always want to be around my nephews. That's my family and those are the only and Cory's kids too, I guess. But other than that, I remember getting lunch with a friend. Can I bring my son? No. >> No. Why is he here? >> Let's reschedule.

Six six years old or whatever the [ __ ] What? I don't I don't want to go to lunch with you and your kid. >> Yeah. >> I have other friends who are childless who are like sending my kids Christmas gifts and they want to talk to them on the So, it's like what is the relationship? Not my expectation for every single human is not the same. I guess it just yeah it depends on the kid. >> Everyone is unique and the kids personality sometimes just like your personality.

There are certain kids who have a certain warmth with certain friends and not others. >> But also the parent because however you want to parent that's your business. But there are parents who if the kid is there that's their attention. You can't tell a story. You can't get their focus. >> You must know my kids. >> Are you that parent? No. No. No. I said the kids. I'm not the parent. I'm trying to ignore them but they're talking. >> Thank you.

And then there's parents that are kind of do the whole like mommy's talking and you got to figure your [ __ ] out and you have to entertain yourself and it's just I've been on both sides of it and it's really hard to be with a parent that is that the second the kid needs their attention they are on it. >> Well, what I've said to my kids is do I disturb your playdates? Do I disturb your playdates? when you have your they'll have their friends over and they're watching I don't know zombies or uh what's the new thing that keeps getting demon hunters K-pop demon hunters and y'all have popcorn and all this stuff.

I don't come in there and sit in the middle of y'all and start bringing up random stuff. Don't do that to me. Don't do that to me. I don't do it to you. My kids are nine and 12. Yeah. So, we're at that phase. But if you let them, they will certainly be like, "Ma, ma, I don't do that to you. I just want you to see how I'm not treating you that way." Now, if you want equal treatment, >> if you want equal treatment, I could give it.

You keep interrupting me. Wait, wait till Christian comes down this street. >> I'm I'm going be all up in there. >> Oh my god, I love that. >> And the other day when Yeah. I'm like, we you have to be respectful. >> My friends are not over all the time. So when they come over, find your business. >> Do you see people create like unhealthy dependency with their children? I'm sure you do. >> Yes. Yes. >> Like can't break that.

Like >> I'm watching this show. Tiffany Hattish uh has some like adventure show or something. So I'm I'm watching it and one of her friends on the show I think moves to the state that her daughter goes to college. And all of them are like, "Oh my gosh, like you're codependent. You need to get a life. Like why are you >> Those parents are so interesting to me. Why are you in the same state as her? I don't have enough information to make an assessment.

You know, I'm I'm thinking what if her child really does have some some like emotional issues and need that level of support. I don't know. Or it could be the mom where she's like, "Oh god, oh my gosh, my baby is gone. I want to be there all the time." So, yeah, parents have it. That's helicopter parenting, right? That's the parenting where, you know, you have these kids going off to college and they can't survive that first semester because they don't know how to do anything outside of the parent helping them.

So, yeah, of course, people have dependency issues with their kids. >> You do see that and girls are like, I call my mom five times a day. I could never related to anything less in my entire life. Maybe we would talk once every two weeks. Like, >> I used to when I was younger. >> Yeah. And I just I to your point earlier, like it depends on how you digest that relationship. Some for some people that's very healthy and they love the safety net of their mom being their best friend.

For other people that would really annoy them and erode their boundaries. So I guess it's just how you digest it and how your partner digest it. I I can see a partner being like I would like to not have your parents involved in every single thing. >> Parents are highly involved and then it wouldn't be a problem. >> Well, God, what does that look like to a couple where both are imshed with their parents? What are we even doing? >> But have you dated anybody like that that's just like I gotta call my mom or a sibling every time anything happens?

Yeah. I I mean, my college boyfriend was like, "We're really like that with his mom, but we're so young, too. It's I can't do it. I It's not going to be for me. My parents aren't like that. We don't have that relationship dynamic. I have a guy friend who I've only ever been platonic with and I've spent time with him and it's fascinating to watch his relationship with his parents and it is non-stop all day. got to talk to the whole family.

And it's a problem with his relationships >> cuz the mom is the top. She comes first above anyone else including a romantic partner. And I have mixed thoughts on this too. I'm just like I don't think a romantic partner gets to come in and be top priority over the family you've had your whole life and all these things. But it Yeah. Like so we want to talk about this like maybe we start with family like ashment with family and if you're dating someone like that can you get through it?

What can you offer to those people who are dealing with this? >> Yeah, I think you have to tread lightly because you're new in the system. This is the way that they've operated. Perhaps you see it as a problem on first sight. However, I think you have to really get into the system to understand what that is. Sometimes our initial reaction, especially you think of a person who's hyperindependent, >> they do everything themselves. they don't have that like family loyalty and tie and then they get into a relationship with someone who's talking to their parents several times a day.

Of course, they're going to see that as a huge problem. >> But is it possible with healthy love? >> Mhm. >> So, I think it's what's happening in those interactions. Can this person make a decision without their parents? Yes. But do they want to have somebody to talk through it with them? You know, I think that part of it matters. like or is it like okay mom I'm about to like is it a reporting or is it an informing and notifying?

So you know I I think it's it's really based on you know what we need in a relationship and we have to think about how we attach to people and how others may attach and maybe it is unhealthy and maybe it's not. That's a good point. I my sister-in-law and her mom talk four times a day. I think it's cute. I think it's adorable and her parents don't erode the boundaries of her romantic relationship with my brother. I think that they're like there's like a clear boundary, right?

Like he still comes first to the marriage and things like that. But yeah, her mom calls her all day every day. I had a sandwich. This is what I put on it. It's cute. It's nice. It's it's a nice support system for her. >> And sometimes when we see people in relationships that we don't have, we automatically think of it as negative. So, if I'm dating some person who has this this relationship with their mom and I really talk to my mom, it's like why are you talking to your mom every day?

You know, it's like what's wrong with you? And it's like maybe nothing. Like this is just our cadence. It feels good. Like what is the unhealthy part? Is she coming over and like >> rearranging your drawers or something? But if if that's the case and it is like you said, they can't make a decision without them. I mean, where do you go? Do you just kind of lead with curiosity? Do you start asking questions? Like, you can't come in guns blazing.

You can't you can't act like this. You're obsessed with your mom. Like, what? Obviously, >> I think it's curiosity. >> Yeah. >> Because that person has had such a long-term relationship with their family, your partner is not going going to hear you being critical right off. >> Totally. So, you have to tree it lightly in how you bring that up, but definitely bring it up, but in a curious sort of way. And, you know, hopefully they'll start to see it. >> Well, that's I know we've talked about that with Lorie Gotautle.

Like, >> if you can plant a seed >> Yeah. >> that they could reflect to, >> right? Versus like, here's your problem in your relationship with your mom. Like, most people aren't going to take that. But if you're saying just like, >> "Hey, I noticed that, you know, we were making this a decision about buying a new car and I thought we were talking through it." Then you, you know, >> caught your mom. Like, what was that about?

Like, does she have really good experience on that? >> Was she paying for this? >> Yeah. Like, is she a car dealer? So, I I don't know, but maybe she is. >> Can we talk a little bit about a meshed friendships? >> Yes. And you said something earlier that I want to circle back to when people need space and >> that's tough to be in a situation where your friend wants space from you or you know the neediness we talk about.

So I just think I want him to talk about these like a mesh friendship relationships. >> Yeah. Well, we have to choose our words carefully in relationships when we want to keep them. And so I don't think we go to people and say >> I need space from you. >> Totally. No, I agree that it's like a dagger of the heart. >> It's not what to say, but I think sometimes we do say that. And what we need to reflect on is why we have that need within ourselves. >> I am doing a lot of healing work.

I am, you know, having some personal shifts and I'm noticing that I need more time with myself. What that will look like for us is >> maybe we don't do every Thursday whatever we were doing, right? So, I I might not be available for this thing. That's not making it about them. >> That's making about you >> about you and what you have going on. Not every week I don't want to go to this thing with you. Whoa. >> Mhm. >> Way to ruin a friendship, >> right?

Yeah. >> But there are ways to let a person know that, you know, based on the shifts that are happening in my life, I, you know, this is how it will reflect on you. Like things are changing. I was going to Pilates for like I don't know six months with a friend and she was like upon reflection. Um that this is not really on my driving path. >> Oh, that's sad. >> Yeah. She's like this is >> my Pilates friend. >> Yeah. She's like this is not on my driving path and getting here from work and changing in the bathroom like it's just >> it's just a thing.

It's stressful. Like I'm I'm bowing out of Pilates. And I was like, "Okay, cool. But I'm I'm seeing her tonight." So, >> okay. Good. Okay. You plan you guys are going to go to the comedy show? >> Yes. Okay. >> Yeah. So, it wasn't a ruined friendship. It's just like I get that my day is a little more flexible. So, at 5:00 I'm free to, you know, I might be done at 3:00. So, I'm going to Pilates now. That's fine. But she's working all day and getting off at 5 and going straight to, you know, so that's a different lifestyle.

I understand that. Thank you for coming for the six months. That was kind of you to make that stretch. We can find other things to do during other times where it's more suitable. >> When I want space, I take it. There's nobody that I've ever been annoyed with that's been like, "Rina seems so great with me." Like, I I do wear it on my sleeve, but it has been a lifelong battle for me to address those things early, dip them in the butt.

Like, I'll take the space, but people feel that I'm taking the space from them. And it has been like a lifelong >> battle for me. I mean, you and I talked about this a couple summers ago with your book, Dramafree, and me avoiding conflict with my family and my brother saying to me like, "When you don't talk to me, it makes me feel like you don't love me." >> And he I just thought I was like sparing him the uncomfortable conversations.

But he was like, "No, if I'm pissing you off, just tell me, right? I'm an adult. I'll get through it, you know?" And trusting that other people can hear those things and it's not going to ruin the whole relationship. We had a friend recently talking to me and she said, "I I avoid conflict." And I said, "What are you scared of?" And she said that people will leave me and trusting that people aren't going to leave you.

I think that it is like a lifelong battle to like take the space and be able to be like I need some space. >> Absolutely. >> People in a nice way. >> Yeah. >> What do you say to the best friends, the imshed friends, and on the other side where the one feels like she's losing her best friend to let's just say a guy romantic relationship or whatever or whatever it may be. >> Yeah. I I I don't think you fill the void, but I think you incorporate more people. >> People have the option to want something different for themselves. >> There are some things that we can't give our friends.

Sex, you know. So, I I think it's one of those things that we have to acknowledge. I get it. Like, you want that companionship, you want that level of relationship, and I am not providing that. I need to maybe figure out is this available with someone else in my life or do I need to incorporate some new people. It is not an attack on our friendship. This is a growth thing for you and I'm I'm proud of you. I want you to be married and also this is how it will impact our relationship. >> And can you have a standing weekly date?

You know, like we've all been in those situations where you're like, I'm losing her, you know, and you know, maybe I'll get her back. back like I feel like this is when we were in our 20s a lot and so is there a world in which you're like can we do dinner can we do Pilates can we do can we have a >> can you meet me halfway can I rely on you to >> cuz you're right like we can't give our friends this romantic relationship unless we want to but you don't begrudge your friend for going to find that you're probably happy for them but to feel like I've lost the friendship because of that is >> probably a pretty common experience >> well yeah or can I come over for dinner you know it's not always going out maybe you know your husband goes in the other room or your boyfriend goes in another room and we sit down and we do our dinner and and that's our night.

Maybe that's the way you you fold this this third person into the relationship. So, right, >> you know, can we have something consistent? Yeah. But it's it's really on the two people in the relationship to figure out what that new cadence will be and that requires some discomfort maybe with some conversations. >> That's a great call. Even when I reflect on friends when I felt like that, I'd be hanging out with them and their partner.

I'd be like, "I'm coming over." You know, like >> every day of my life in LA is third wheeling, fifth wheeling. I don't have a single single friend. I don't have a single single friend in LA anymore. All of them. >> All of my all of my social activities are with my friends and their husbands and boyfriends. And I was I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE ACTIVITY EVER. Friday night, Saturday morning. I'm like, I can't push back on this. >> I mean, my I mean, I'm going to move back to New York and Ashley's going to come with me.

I'm I am really lucky. I was thinking the other day, >> just I'm really lucky that my friends have chosen partners that are really wonderful and all of our friends here have husbands, fiances, boyfriends that I really like. I've It's important to me to ask them questions and engage with them cuz like that is my life here right now. >> Yeah. And it's like I look at when we're hanging out as just five friends, you know, like two dudes, three women.

Like it's just like not two couples who were on each other sitting on each other's laps, you know, like. And I get if you're around a couple that's really truly making you feel like a third wheel or a fifth wheel, but like luckily when it's like that, it's just we're all >> Yeah. And I understand that like I have to tell myself adults want to be with their partners. >> Adults want to be with their relationship. >> It's just a new a new friend. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

It's like an addition to your friendship. >> Yeah. >> Or you move back to New York to go find your single friend. >> But there's also nothing wrong with saying, "Let's do a girls night." And I've need that. It's It really fills my cup. like I don't want him to be with like attached to the hip. He doesn't want that either. If you say, "Can we make it a girl's night?" to your friends who are partnered and they are offended or push back, I don't really know what to tell you to do there cuz girls nights have been around since the history of time.

Like that's that's no that doesn't mean I hate your man. >> It means can we just do a girls night? >> Absolutely. >> I have a good balance of of both. >> So maybe we close it out with what healthy dependency looks like and I think we've touched on it. I think it means that you show up in your relationships in a reflective boundaried boundaried on both sides and considerate way. We have to have care in our relationships.

We have to accept help. We have to also offer it. >> We have to be willing to support people and we will need support. So I I think things in terms of dependency, we have to think about the person who we're in a relationship with. There are some people where our dependency cannot be healthy and it can only be codependent, right? And then we may have to adjust there. But in most of our interactions, if we can strive to have some healthier situations, I think that's really helpful and it makes us feel more connected.

So our our goal should be to have not necessarily more people, but deeper connections. >> I love that. I love it. Nedra, every time you're on the show, it's so amazing for us. >> Is there anything else you want? >> No, I think that's I think that's great. We want people to buy the book and read the book. It's a great book. All of your books, honestly, are fantastic. Whether you're dealing with boundaries or dependency, anything you want to address in your life, I mean, buy them all.

But also, your Instagram is a wealth of great information. So, tell people where they can find you and anything else. >> Yes. So, I have a website, nrawab.com, and then my Instagram, my threads, all the places. Nedra. >> Okay. And congrats on the new book, The Balancing Act. You guys can get it now. >> It's so funny. I remember how I saw you. Do you remember? I was home during co I was at my parents house in Delaware.

You were on the TV. My mom was like, "Maybe you should watch this. It seems relevant to what you do." And we had wanting to do an episode of Boundaries. That's how it happened. But I remember like Today Show or some news or whatever, Kelly somebody. I don't know. >> Did you put out a book that year in 2020? >> 2021. But 2020, I could have been on TV talking about it, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I just had a flashback of just that's how I saw saw you for the first time.

She'd be good. >> Okay, guys. And you know where to find us. Girls got to eat.com. Girls got to eat podcast on Instagram and Tik Tok. I'm Ash Hes. Raina is reaina.ggreenberg. Greenberg.com for her tour tickets. And you can subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. And we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye. Fire.