How To Actually Get Rich In Your 20s | Naval Ravikant transcript

If somebody can tell you when to be at work, and what to wear, and how to behave, you're not a free person. You're not actually rich. What you really want is freedom. You want freedom from your money problems. >> Right. >> And I think that's okay. Retirement is when you stop sacrificing today for some imaginary tomorrow. >> Okay. Yes. >> When today is complete in and of itself, you're retired. There are three things everybody wants.

There's actually more than three, but let's let's just start with three. The three basics. Everybody wants to be wealthy. Everybody wants to be happy. And everybody wants to be fit. And I know there's a lot of virtue signaling that goes on. Like we don't want to money and, you know, I don't care about being happy and happiness is for stupid people. But let's face it. Like you want to be rich and happy and healthy. Like that's the trifecta.

Now, of course, you also want an internally calm state of mind. You want a loving household. So, there are other things that come into it. But those three, I think they can actually be taught, right? And the fitness I'm not going to teach. There are a lot of people who you've had on here, including yourself, who know a heck of a lot more about fitness and health than I do. Um but I was born poor and miserable. >> [music] >> And uh I'm now pretty well off and I'm very happy.

Uh and I don't and I worked at those. And so, I've learned a few things. There are some principles. >> [snorts] >> Well, today we have this wonderful invention called money, where you can just store stuff up in a bank account. Okay. And you can basically you can work really hard. You can do great things for society, and society will give you money for giving it things that it wants and it doesn't know how to get. And then you can save that up, and you can live well below with your means, and you can find a certain freedom in that.

And that will give you the time and the energy to pursue your own internal peace and happiness. There are no get-rich-quick schemes. That's just somebody else trying to get rich off of you. So, how do you get there? Well, one is you can have so much money saved up that just your passive income off of that, without you having to lift a finger, covers your burn rate. Keep your burn rate low. Right? >> Mhm. >> A second is you just drive your burn rate down to You become a monk.

A third is you're doing something you love. You enjoy it so much it's not about the money. >> Right. >> So there are multiple ways to that path. >> We We like to view the world as linear, which is I'm going to put in 8 hours of work, I'm going to get back 8 hours of output, right? Doesn't work that way. Guy running the corner grocery store is working just as hard or harder than you and me. How much output is he getting?

What you do, who you do it with, how you do it way more important than how hard you work, right? Outputs are >> non-linear based on the quality of the work that you put in. The right way to work is like a lion. You don't You and I are not like cows. We're not meant to graze all day, right? We're meant to hunt like lions. We're closer to carnivores in our omnivorous development than we are to herbivores. Um we >> Don't tell vegans that. >> Yeah, sorry.

Look Look, I wish all that stuff worked. I don't want to eat meat. Future generation will look back at us as worse than slavers, you know, because the holocaust we're committing with the animals, but they'll have artificial meats that taste and are healthier as uh than the real thing. So >> Allegedly. >> Allegedly. But so as a as a modern knowledge worker athlete, as an intellectual athlete, you want to function like an athlete, which means you train hard, then you sprint, [music] then you rest, then you reassess, you get your feedback loop, then you train some more, then you sprint again, then you rest, then you reassess.

This idea that you're going to have linear output just by cranking every day at the same amount of time sitting That's That's machines, you know? Machines should be working 9:00 to 5:00. Humans are not meant work 9:00 to are not meant to work 9:00 to 5:00. >> No, I agree wholeheartedly, but that's for people that are working for someone, there's not really that option. >> So that's unfortunately the the rub, right? That That's kind of where my tweetstorm starts, which is the first thing if you're going to make money is that you're not going to get rich renting out your time.

Even lawyers and doctors were charging three, four, five hundred dollars an hour. They're not getting rich cuz their lifestyle is ramping up along with their income and they're not saving enough. They They just don't have that ability to retire. So, the first thing you have to do is you have to own a piece of a business. You need to have equity either as an owner, an investor, shareholder, or a brand that you're building that accrues to you to gain your financial freedom.

But really today in society, you get rewarded for creative work, for creating something brand new that society didn't even know yet that it wanted, that doesn't know how to get other than through you. So, the most powerful money makers are actually individual brands, people like yourself or Elon or Kanye or Oprah or Trump, right? These are individual brands, eponymous name brands who themselves are leverage, like you're leveraged.

You have [music] podcast media going out to everybody, that's leverage. The podcasts work for you when you sleep. They have knowledge that nobody else has, which is your knowledge is the knowledge of being Joe Rogan. You just have a unique set of skill sets. So, because of this unique, what I call specific knowledge, because of the accountability that you have with your name, because of the leverage that you have through your media, you're a money-making machine.

You're I'm sure at this point I could make you start over tomorrow, wipe out your bank account, you'd be rich again in no time. Because you have all the skill sets. So, once people have those skill sets and the beauty is the way you've done it is you don't have any competition. There's no substitution. If Joe Rogan were to disappear off the air tomorrow, it's not like random podcast number 12 would step in and fill that thing.

No, it's it's just gone. So, the way to get out of that competition trap is actually to be authentic. The way to retire is actually to find the thing that you know how to do better than anybody and you know how to do that better than anybody cuz you love to do it. No one can compete with you if you love to do it. Be authentic and then figure out how to map that to what society actually wants, apply some leverage, put your name on it so you take the risks, but you gain the rewards, have ownership and equity in what you do, and then just crank it out.

And I think the smart people have already started figuring out that the internet enables this and they're starting to work more and more remotely on their own schedule, on their own time, on their own place, with their own friends, in their own way. And that's actually how we are the most productive. So, the information revolution by making it easier to communicate, connect, and cooperate is allowing us to go back to working for ourselves.

And that is my ultimate dream. Even when I run a company and I have employees, I always tell those people, "Hey, I'm going to help you start your company when you're ready." Because I think that's the highest calling. Maybe not everybody will get there, but it would be fine if we were even working at 10-person company or 20-person company is way better than working in a 1,000-person company or 10,000-person company. So, this idea that we're all factory-like cogs in a machine who are specialized and have to do things by rote memorization or instruction is going to go away and we're going to go back to being small groups of creative bands of individuals setting out to do missions.

And when those missions are done, we collect our money, we get rated, and then we rest and reassess until we're ready for the next sprint. >> I think people have to be very careful to not get trapped along the way with things that you can afford with your current lifestyle, like the way you're living in the the way you're earning, but they're also imprisoning you in the fact that you are now going to have to work this 40-hour week job in order to get this thing that you can afford, but now you you are saddled down to this job.

You have no you're not saving, you're not you're not putting things in a in a good place, and you're working for these things. Working for things as rewards is a real trap that a lot of people fall into. >> It's the biggest one. You know, Nassim Taleb also says that you know, there two great addictions, heroin and a monthly salary. >> [laughter] >> Right? And and that's why you can't get rich renting out your time. Because even when you start charging more and more for your time, it's a slow upgrade loop and then you upgrade your house at the same time, you upgrade your car at the same time.

You move in the neighborhood. You really also have to get used to ignoring your peers. Or upgrading or changing the definition of your peers. There are a lot of There are a lot of people here who are poor here, but they would be rich if they were living in Thailand and Bali. And if they have the luxury of a remotely doable job, they may want to be living there. Uh and saving up money. >> Well, the ignoring the peers is an issue because the keeping up with the Joneses is a real phenomenon. >> Yeah, envy makes the world go around, right?

[music] >> Yeah. And then there's a there's a other thing that people have to avoid even allowing their mind to think. When they're hearing what you're saying and all this logical, fantastic advice, there's these six dirty words, that's easy for you to say. >> Yeah. >> That is a terrible trap. >> I mean, look, I grew up as a first-generation immigrant uh in Jamaica, Queens uh with zero money, single mom, two kids, working day and night, going to school.

Uh >> [music] >> you know, I washed dishes. Uh I was I was working catering jobs. I was mowing lawns. I was working since the age of 11 on and off here and there. Um didn't have two cents to rub together, you know? Uh I had to borrow $400 to go to college. Like literally, I was short $400. And >> $400? >> I had to find $400. I didn't have it. Um you know, got rejected from a job at Dunkin' Donuts. So, like okay, it's not to say that it's easy.

It's not easy. It's actually really freaking hard. It is the hardest thing you will do, but it's also the rewarding thing. >> Those people that peak too early can do the Elon Musk thing and just abandon it and start something new and then learn the the the joys of sucking at something. >> Yeah, and actually the in our profession, especially when you're high visibility, the problem with peaking is that you then get drowned in in death of a thousand cuts.

People have expectations of you. Hey Joe, can you come to my event? Hey Joe, can you look at my business plan? [music] Hey Joe, can you give me advice on this? Can you you know, talk to my friend? Can you come on this podcast? You're just being assaulted all the time with inbound opportunities. So, you have no time to start over with anything. So, you have to ruthlessly ruthlessly disappoint everybody, eliminate and clear your schedule, drop all the meetings, not even respond to the emails.

It's the only way you're going to be able to start over with anything. Really where it comes from is when I was young, one of my principles was I knew I had to make money. It was my overwhelming desire. >> [music] >> And one of the things I did was I said, "Okay, I'm never going to be worth more than what I think I'm worth." Okay, no one's going to pay me more than what I think I'm worth. So, what am I worth? So, I picked an hourly rate for myself that I was worth.

And I said, "I'm never going to squander my time for less than this." So, if if originally it was 500 bucks an hour, then I upgraded to 5,000 bucks an hour and you know, it's ludicrous, but pick an aspirational hourly rate. Aspirational, it has to be a little ludicrous. And then what I would do is if if I have to return something, I'm standing in line to return something and it's below my hourly rate, I'll throw it away.

If I have to if I have or give it away. If I have to do some task and I can hire somebody to do it for less than my hourly rate, I would hire them. And so, I just became extremely jealous of my time, which doesn't mean you can't have fun, rest, leisure, spending time with your friends and family. That's all great. Don't count that. But if you're doing anything you don't want to do, [music] which is the definition of work, it's a set of things that you have to do that you don't want to do.

If you're working, it better be for your hourly rate, otherwise don't do the work. And so, once it came out of that, then I just realized the cost of meetings. The cost of meetings is so high, especially given all the people who are in there, right? One person's talking, seven people listening, you're literally just dying an hour at a time. As you get older, you just realize that there's no happiness in material possessions.

Now, lack of material possessions can make you very unhappy. So, being poor can make you unhappy, but being rich is not going to make you happy. And what happens unfortunately, a lot of people struggle through their whole life to make money. They make some, they're exhausted, and then they're like, well, now why why am I not happy? I guess I'm just not a happy person. And smart people aren't happy. That's like a great little way that people feel better about it.

They say, well, if you're smart, you're not happy, right? Whereas I posit the other way. If you're smart, you should be able to figure out how to be happy. Otherwise, you're not that smart. One of the secrets to happiness is to really embrace what you're doing in that moment. That's trite, but where that where that comes from is saying, I only want to do actions that are complete in and of themselves, right? If I'm looking for some ulterior motive down the line, it's not going to materialize.

And and if you think it is, maybe even if it does, it'll be very short-lived. Anything you want in your life, whether it was a car, or whether it was a girl, or whether it was money, when you got it, a year later, you were back to zero. Your brain had hedonically adapted to it, and you were looking for the next thing. >> So, what lights your fire now? Like, what what gets you motivated to do things and to act? >> Art. >> Art? >> This is art. >> Oh, okay. >> Art is just creativity.

It's just anything that's done for its own sake. >> Mhm. >> So, what are the things that are done for their own sake? There's nothing beyond loving somebody, uh creating something, >> [music] >> playing, art. To me, creating businesses is play. I create businesses early stage cuz it's fun, cuz I I I'm into the product. Even when I invest, it's because I like the people, I like hanging out with them, I learn from them, and I think the product is really cool.

Um so, these days, I will pass on all kinds of great investments because I'm like, I just the product's not interesting, it's boring. I'm not going to learn anything. >> That's a beautiful luxury. >> It is a luxury. Art and learning, yeah. It is a luxury. These are not 100% or zero things, right? You can in your life start moving more and more towards that. >> Right, but it's a goal. >> It's a goal. When when I was younger, I I used to be so desperate to make money that I would have done anything, right?

If you'd shown up and said, "Hey, I got a sewage trucking business and you're going to go into that." I was like, "Great, let's do it. I'm going to make money." Thank god no one gave me that opportunity. >> [laughter] >> I'm glad that it went down the road of technology and science, which I genuinely enjoy. Uh and so I got to like combine my vocation and my avocation. I mean, what are you doing? You're playing. You're having fun.

You're doing art. You're not You're not working. >> No. That's what I always say when people say I work hard. I'm like, "Sort of. Not really." >> I'm always working, but it looks like work to them, but it feels like play to me. And that's how I know no one can compete with me on it. Because I'm just playing 16 hours [music] a day. And if they want to compete with me and they're going to work, they're going to lose cuz they're not going to do it 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.