Your Knowledge is Currency: Creating Premium Online Courses - Dr. Sonia Murrey (Exodus Summit 2025) transcript

My name is Rashidita Dao. I am the co-founder of Exodus Summit and I am excited to bring you our first >> teaching session of Saturday morning which is let me give you the full title so I don't make this up. Your knowledge is currency creating premium online courses with Dr. Sonia Murray. Uh before we kick it over to Sonia, I want to introduce my co-founder Stephanie Perry. >> Hello friends, I'm Stephanie Perry. We're very excited to get things kicked off today with this session.

Okay. Dr. Sonia Murray is the founder and CEO of Jump First, a company dedicated to helping high-erforming founders, execs, creatives transform their expertise into powerful mentorship programs and coaching offers. Uh let's see. Dr. Sonia is a forwardthinking leader. She believes we all deserve to be free and that transformative knowledge is our key to freedom. Welcome very welcome Dr. Sonia. Thank you for being here this morning. >> Thank you very much for having me.

I'm super excited. Yay. All right, because we can't teach anything about premium courses, we're going to hop off the screen and leave you in Dr. Sonia's careful hands and we'll be back for a Q&A a little later. So, hint hint, there is a Q&A tab. >> Drop your cues in the Q&A tab. Put the Q in front of it, of course. And don't and put your chat in the chat tab. Two different tabs for two different things. Let's do this.

We'll see you guys in about 45 minutes. >> Yes. Perfect. I'm so excited. I'm excited that you are here. I'm excited to be bringing this. And I know that Rashidita says she can't teach anything premium courses. Okay. But my goal is that at the end of this, you know what it is that you want to talk about, what you want to teach, and you understand that your knowledge is your currency. Okay. So, let's get right into it uh and jump in.

I love doing this. All right. So, again, for those of you all who are new to my face, my name is Dr. Sonia. I'm founder of Jump First and Jump First Academy, retired professor, mentor. I've created several different movements. One of my favorites has been the global authority movement where you are taking and packaging your knowledge, your wisdom, your life experiences and turning it into something that can reach people globally.

Okay. Now, I have been dubbed the premium online course queen. I did not give myself this title. My peers did. I'll tell you the quick story. I was at a mastermind uh retreat in Mexico uh with some of my mentors and some of my peers. And around this time, it was about four years ago, nobody was selling, not a lot of people, I can't say nobody, right? But not a lot of people that I had run into were selling $5,000, $10,000 courses and programs off a webinar.

And so my peers didn't believe me at the time. They started to see the stats and behind the scenes and I showed them how I was doing it. Um, and they were like, "Okay, you are the premium online course queen." And so I got that name and it just stuck. All right. I've been running this sevenfigure premium high-end online course business and coaching brand that I grew to multiple six figures in under a year. I did it in about nine months and since then I've been helping thousands of students around the world globally to create sustainable online course businesses and brands.

And so I've created again several different programs to help with that. Sixfigure CEO society 10K launch incubator all of those things. And now I want to show you how you can do this easily and profitably even if you have no idea what you want to teach. We're going to jump into it right now. So again, welcome, welcome. Extending a warm welcome. Here's what we're going to cover today because I like to be succinct and to the point.

No fluff. All right? I'm going to show you how not to put fluff in your courses as well. So, we're going to do a quick intro. I don't like to make these things all about me, but I do need to show you where I've been so that I can show you what is possible with where it is that you are and where we've grown to. I also want to talk about what's stopping you from launching your premium course right now and what to do about it.

You're also going to identify and debunk some common myths about premium courses. I'm going to give you my freedom freedom blueprint. Freedom, okay? My premium course, freedom blueprint. Say that 10 times fast. And I'm going to show you how to use it to turn what you already know into currency because it's already in you. All right? So, my question to you, and I want you to think about this a little bit, is why freedom?

And then to go even deeper, why right now? Right? Maybe it's something you've been thinking about doing for two years, three years, six months, you know, maybe 10 years. All right? No shade. this is the time right now. Like this is the best time to do it. Now, I want to want you to start to think about that reason again. Why is freedom for you and why right now? Maybe you're feeling like you're wasting time. All right, time is ticking.

You've been spending a lot of time researching, trying to find this balance between what you like to do, serving others, creating, leading, just living your life, managing your household, and also making more money. But all of these conflicting thoughts and information online right now are causing you confusion, overwhelm, burnout, all the things. Maybe you've been feeling some imposttor syndrome, right? About especially around premium prices, like if I price my course at this or I price my service at this and I really want to work with these types of clients and I want to serve them at the highest level, but if I bust out with premium pricing and nobody knows me, like people are probably not going to want to buy from me, right?

You're going to think maybe other people will think that your courses are overpriced, your products and services are overpriced or somebody else is already doing it and they're charging less than you want to charge. Then there's some imposttor syndrome that comes up, right? I felt it. I know it. Maybe right now you're also feeling perfectionism. You've been spending all these hours, weeks, months, you're perfecting your website, your brand colors, your fonts. or researching the perfect technology and hosting platforms, not just for courses, but for any product or service that you really want to offer, and you are just not sure that this thing that you're working on, that you're developing in the back of your mind, there's this little voice going, "But who's going to buy it?

Who's going to show up and buy it?" And so, perfectionism is that thing that's holding us back, right? Maybe there is this fear thing. I don't even know how that word got in there because what I meant to say procrastination and there is again fear. All right, hold on. Back up a second. is really procrastination. All right? And I like to do little quirky things. This is like an example of I need you to be yourself. Okay?

Procrastination, perfectionism. These are these are just symptoms of fear. Like you're really deep down inside, if we get down to it, you are afraid of putting yourself out there, of launching the thing. And so you've been procrastinating because you feel like I don't have all the pieces together. And honestly, you're afraid not just to fail, but of the judgment that's going to come with failing from family members, friends, like all of these things that you are thinking in your head, feeling in your heart that maybe you are afraid to say.

Then there's also this other piece, okay? This nagging feeling that if suddenly, let's say I gave you a hundred customers, they were guaranteed and I dropped them on your doorstep and they were ready to purchase. if they purchase from you right now, there's this nagging feeling because you know that maybe you don't have all the systems in place to support them and you would be completely overwhelmed on the delivery side of things.

So it's one thing to make the money but then how are you delivering and you know you as a high performer high achieving woman all right you are here and you want to do it to the best of your ability. Everything is at a high level and so you've been procrastinating but here's the thing about all of that. You just need clarity. That's it. So all of the muddiness, all right, that's going on in your brain, you just need clarity.

So let's wipe it all away for a second because your clarity is going to create your confidence. And the confidence is what you need in order to create the authority. All right? So I'm going to show you how to do that today. And this is why you want the freedom in the first place. Because it's not just about the freedom that comes with moving abroad because wherever it is that you are, you are taking yourself with you.

Okay? So wherever you go, there you are. All right? So [clears throat] you want freedom where you are so that you can truly be free if you do decide to take the leap and jump and move abroad. You just want the freedom and this is why you want it now. All right, let's quiet the noise, all the doubt, all the fear, all those things. Today I'm going to show you how you can develop, design, sell, and scale a premium high ticket online course that you can confidently charge 5,000, $10,000, even $20,000 for.

Now, I know some of you all are watching this like, "What?" Right? I've been thinking about charging $1,500. I've been thinking about charging $2,000. And even that sounds expensive. I need you to elevate with me today. But for one second, like push all the stuff that you've heard about online courses to the back of your brain for one second. All right? For the next 20, 30 minutes. All right? And I'm going to show you how you can start charging higher price points. 5,000, 10,000, 20,000.

I've seen people charge $250,000 for four hours. Okay, so this is you don't need the complicated tech to do it. You don't need to become a content creator to do it. And you don't need to build confusing funnels. I'm going to show you the easy way to do it. This is a premium course freedom blueprint. All right? And this is the same system that I am using, the same system that I'm teaching my clients and students to use as well.

And so I want to give it to you on today. Now remember I said I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about myself but I do need to tell you where this started so that maybe it will spark some ideas about what it is that you can teach and where you are currently starting from. Now when where I started from over eight years ago I was sitting in a cubicle with a PhD and you see me this was my cubicle. I was on the front line.

So when we didn't have a receptionist at that front desk it was me. All right. And I was like literally this was my face every day I showed up to work. I was like, there is no way that they sold me this dream. This is not my life. Like, yes, the money is great. Yes, I can go do what I want to do. I can buy what I want to buy, but I don't like it here. Like, I did not go through all of the school um the schooling, understand, you know, been reading my whole life, doing all the things to sit in somebody else's cubicle and to further propel somebody else's dream.

And so, I had also been teaching university courses. Now, still at this time, and here's the pro tip, at this time, I didn't even realize that I had a gift for teaching. I literally was doing it. And how often are we doing the thing that feels so natural to us, that comes so easily to us, and we overlook it as a gift, as a talent. And so, it dawned on me one day, I'm like, I got the PhD. I've been developing courses.

I'm teaching courses, university, developing courses for colleges, universities, businesses. Why can't I do this for myself? And so that's what I decided to do. Now, I'm not saying that you should jump and quit your 9-5 today or Monday, okay? Or write your resignation letter this weekend. I'm saying that's what worked for me, okay? I needed to make myself uncomfortable enough to follow my dream, to do the thing that was laid on my heart because I started the business.

I formed the LLC and everything back in like 2016, but it took me two years to actually execute even after I had been fired from jobs and all sorts of things. And so I'm like, what am I doing? Right? And so I decided to mind my own business literally. And I said, there must be other high performers. There must be other high achievers. There must be other people who are thinking this, especially women sitting in corporate jobs or sitting in somebody's cub cubicle thinking about their own ideas and how far down they've pushed them.

Okay? And so I was like, let me go ahead and come up with this plan to teach other people how they can create their own platforms. We don't have to necessarily work for somebody else. And so when I did that, I launched my course. I did $12,542 in less than two weeks. And that was the indication that I needed to know that I was on the right track. I had just quit my job, y'all. So, I was really trying to figure out what am I doing?

Is this right? Um, and you know how we can go back and forth to self-doubt. That was like, okay, this is the right thing. Then amazing other opportunities started opening. I love women and youth. I love working with them. I love helping them. and that's always been my passion. And so I wanted to be a pediatrician when I was like seven. But then we started cutting things open in the labs as a biology major and I was like absolutely not.

Um so I decided to go this route, right, and really start helping women and youth uh with my voice, teaching what it is that I knew. And I started being booked for speaking opportunities, um traveling more because now I have this freedom, right, where I can make money from my laptop. I can set my own hours, do what I want to do. And as you see here, um, that top picture there, on a food mission always. It doesn't matter where I go, I'm looking for the food.

I was in Prague at the time on a food mission. Okay. Now, this has also opened other doors. Remember I mentioned private masterminds, retreats, um, book opportunities, publishing opportunities, um, all sorts of stuff. meeting my mentors, you know, people that I looked up to, people that I have learned from uh online and being able to go see them face to face and then just enjoying the lifestyle. There's food in every picture, I promise y'all.

Okay, so those are the doors that start to open when you step into what it is, who it is that you truly are. And it's not luck. It's clarity and confidence. Okay? It's understanding what it is that you want to do, what you know you're going to do, and being confident and stepping into it boldly. Now, I had another hiccup, and this is the part that people don't talk about. When I got into business, yes, I was making the money.

I had the clients. I had all those things, but I was still burnt out. And this is why I was burnt out. I was focusing on all the things that people told me I needed. The email list, the website, the Facebook ads, the technology that I had no idea how to run because I wasn't techie, and I'm still not techy to this day. All right? The expensive software, the course hosting, and I was enrolling the wrong students on top of that.

Like these are things no one talks about even being successful in business on paper very successful right like profitable all those things but all of this stuff was stressing me out and this is actually a picture a still that I took from one of my client meetings I just was not happy and it wasn't the client it was all the systems in the background and so here's what I decided to do I raised the prices of my courses again bold and confident right but I was clear that I didn't want how I looked in that last picture I didn't want to do that anymore I added more value.

Pro tip for your courses. Always add value first before you set your prices, before you raise your prices. The value that you're putting in your courses should be 10 times the price of that course. All right? And we'll talk more about pricing in a second. I also started telling my story more boldly. I was like, you know, this is my story. This is nobody else can tell it for me. So why am I not talking about my accomplishments?

Society tells us this is happens in traditional education. This happens in corporate. This happens in every institution you can think about. You're supposed to be humble. But I started finding out that humble doesn't mean less than somebody else. It doesn't mean that I have to downplay who I am or downplay what I've been through or downplay my accomplishments and the things that I've been able to achieve. I can talk about those things because if I don't, who is?

I got to talk about my story. I got to talk about my accomplishments. And I found that when I did that, it started to attract more of the people that I really wanted to work with. And so I leave these numbers in here like this is one of my favorite screenshots to go back to these screenshots of when where we started and when we started actually becoming not just profitable but more impactful. And you also see in that middle picture plus 836.7%.

Okay, that means we weren't doing that. Now that means the profits shot up tremendously at that time. And I'll tell you this, it was over Christmas. People were telling me, family members, friends, this is why you can't tell everybody your goals, your dreams, and what it is that you want to do until you have momentum going for yourself. And so people were telling me, "Oh, you can't sell education or information over Christmas time.

People are buying gifts for their kids and they're doing other stuff with their money." And proof, the proof is in the pudding, okay? People were buying education. And this was the first time we started doing consistent $10,000 months. Now remember I was sitting in that cubicle and my goal was to do six figures a year. Okay, at the time I launched my digital education business, this online course business and we started doing six figures every quarter and that was a year and a half into the business.

And that's when I knew, okay, this is a real thing and I really need to be teaching more people this. And so everything shifted from that point again. I raised my prices again because I was like, I'm attracting the people I want to work with. They're getting amazing results. The bottom line is increasing as well. we're making more money, right? So, I raised the prices again. I added more value of course and I started telling my story everywhere like obnoxiously and this is what happened as you can guess.

Okay, we started making more sales and this started happening on a daily and so I was like, okay, this is it. Daily, weekly goals being hit like that were once my monthly goals and now we're doing it daily, right? So, I'm like, okay, it's not luck, it's clarity and confidence. That is the theme for today, okay? For this presentation is clarity and confidence. You have to be clear about what it is that you want and confidently go in the direction of it.

Know that your knowledge is not random. It is rare. What you know, your story is rare. Nobody else has gone through all the experiences that you have gone through. The way that you have gone through them in the order you've gone through them, they haven't heard the things that you've heard, seen the things that you've seen in the way that you have seen it or felt it. Your knowledge isn't random. It is rare and you got to start showing up like that.

So, what does this mean for you? Selling your online courses at premium prices can be effortless. Forget what everybody else is talking about, okay? It can be effortless and it doesn't take a long time to start seeing results and sales. So, here's my big promise to you on today. If you follow everything that I'm going to show you in the next 10-15 minutes, I promise you are going to make way less mistakes than I did.

You're going to make more money faster than I did. You're going to stress way less than I did because I was crazy. I was stressed out. You're going to reach your goals faster than I did because now you have somebody telling you, "Okay, don't step over here." That's what mentors do, right? They go, "Don't step over there because that's a landmine." Okay? You want to step here instead. And so the authority methods that I'm going to teach you today were born out of straight burnout and frustration of chasing industry norms.

That's what I mean by like don't listen to all the noise in the market or all the noise in your industry. Whatever it is that you want to do, if you go confidently and boldly, you will achieve it. Okay? So what I'm going to share with you today is not normal. This is completely different especially for high performers. Okay? high achievers, like you know that whatever you set your heart to do, whatever you set your mind to do, you can accomplish and achieve it.

So, if you are ready, give me a jump. Let's get it. All right, let's get it. Let's get it. I'm super excited. All right, so most people think that they're not an expert. And I worded this it this way for a reason because a lot of people don't believe they're an expert, but most people just think, "Hey, I'm not an expert." And this is particularly true for women. Now, my past um corporate experience, like you saw the cubicle, right, was recruiting and sales.

So, I was recruiting people and placing them in jobs, okay? And that meant I also had to go out to different jobs and figure out what it is that they needed and make those connections as well. A lot of the résumés that I saw about 75% and there's not a real stat for this like anywhere. I've done the research, but people assume, and it's quite accurate based on what it is that I've seen in my experience, 75% of women can be overqualified for a position, especially corporate executives, right?

Overqualified for a position and never even apply because the verbiage in the job description doesn't match what they have on their resume or what they think about themselves. Whereas, you could tell a man, and this can apply to anything, okay? They could apply to jobs, whatever it is. Men will literally commit to something even though they know they're not qualified and they will figure it out as they go. Women, for some reason, we don't think like that.

We go, "Well, it says this. I must not be qualified." But you're actually overqualified. So most people, especially women, think that they're not an expert. But the truth is, everything that you have done, learned, or overcome can become a premium offer. You already are the expert. So you remember the freedom blueprint, right? The premium course free freedom blueprint. We're going to focus on the red one first. All right.

Knowledge. This is your first pillar. Knowledge. This is the blueprint that you need to be free. All right. Through premium courses. This is what I started with. And it looks crazy now and I laugh now. This was my original setup for my first course. You don't even need all this. But this was like very low maintenance, right? It was a quick mic, the little cover for the mic, and I think I had a soundboard over there somewhere and some headphones.

And that's how I recorded my first course. That's how I got started podcasting. It's It's hilarious to look at today. But guess what? Most of my clients and students don't even use this. They use their phones, their iPhones. That's it, okay? In order to create their courses. So the first things first, if you have no idea what it is that you want to teach, the first thing you're going to do to identify your profitable course topic is start with your expertise, not your niche.

Two different things. We do need to combine them, but they are two different things. So your expertise is what you're really good at, what you're really knowledgeable in or around. Your niche is who you're going to offer that to, right? So two distinct things. Now, we do need to combine them. That's how we're going to be able to have a premium profitable course. So, what are you really good at? And this goes deep into when people think expertise, let me tell you what it is real quick because I don't want the word to scare you off.

It's just your knowledge and lived experiences combined. That's it. Knowledge and lived experiences. What do you know about? It's like I went to school for biology, but then I started getting into the labs and cutting open baby sharks and earthworms and raising baby chicks. And that's where it crossed the line for me. I was like, I'm I'm done because I don't know what we're about to do with these baby chicks that we have hatched and raised.

So, I'm out of here, right? It was too much. But that's the point is that I did the book work, learned the book work, understood it, and then got in the lab and started practicing. So, that's what expertise is. It's your knowledge plus your lived experiences. That's expertise. That's all it is. Don't let the word scare you away. Okay? And then your niche is how you're going to show up and serve the people in a very segmented part of the market.

Okay. So, who could use what it is that you know? All right. That's your niche. So, here's the questions you're going to ask that are going to help you uncover that a little bit more. What problems do I help solve? What process do I use to solve those problems? And then, what transformation have I created repeatedly for yourself as well as for other people? How many people are asking you advice about one particular area of expertise?

Okay. or something that you're really knowledgeable about, raising your kids, cooking a meal, um playing an instrument, uh corporate law, like whatever it is that people keep asking you advice about. That is a hint that maybe you should be creating a course about that. And I want to give you this real quick because I always like to show my clients and make it make sense. This is Diana. I'll tell you real quick. She had a boutique um a boutique uh sewing she was sewing handbags for her boutique essentially. and she came to me and she's like, "I need more time to spend with my kids and all of those things." And so, how can I do that?

And I was like, "Let's create a course." She did it. She owns now a physical space. She has online courses. Again, her expertise is fashion, right? But specifically, she's servicing people who want to learn how to sew, which is wild to some people. They're like, "What?" But people are coming into her physical location. People are buying her online courses. She has also expanded her niche to not just serve women, but men as well.

Okay. So, men are coming in and sewing sweaters, all sorts of stuff. She's been on the news all because she decided to focus in on what her actual expertise was and bring that forward to a specific niche audience. That's the piece. All right. The other thing that I want to put here if you don't remember anything is your most profitable course topic is passion plus expertise. So, what are you passionate about? Passionate about what do you know the most about?

That's going to be your most profitable course topic every single time. So, you start with your expertise, not your niche. Don't let the market determine what it is that you want to show up and teach or what it is how you want to show up. Again, remember, your story is valuable. Your experiences are valuable. When you do that, the people will come to you. You're not going to go out and have to find people. They're going to come to you because you're passionate about what you know about.

All right. Second thing, most people think authority comes from their titles. Okay? PhD, JD, MS, like all of these things, certificates and degrees and all those things are amazing. But your authority doesn't come from your title. You're already the expert. Your authority comes from your lived experiences. What have you truly been through? Okay? What have you lived through? And not just like the worst things, but the best things.

What is it that you have accomplished? All those things. So that's the second pillar. The first pillar is knowledge. The second pillar is how you position your knowledge. How do you position what you know? How do you position your lived experiences? Remember, authority is clarity and confidence, not titles, right? How many times have you seen people with titles, they have like degrees coming off the end of their business cards, but they're not profitable in their businesses, right?

Or and I've seen this too, and again, no shade to anybody. This is truly because I want more of us to step into our stories, okay? are authority of our experiences. In my recruiting experiences, right, when I was in corporate, I saw people with two PhDs, three PhDs who could not get jobs. Again, your authority is in clarity and confidence, not the title. So, I'll explain this how to use it to position yourself as the go-to authority in your niche.

You're going to lean into your expertise, lean into what you have lived, not just something, not secondhand knowledge that you've read from a book, right? or something that somebody else told you l lean into what you have lived your story. Here are the questions you're going to ask that are going to help you get clear on this. What specific parts of my life's journey can I quantify into frameworks and teachable concepts?

Now, I say that because everybody can't teach, right? It's not like and it's not that you can't learn it, but giving advice is something different than teaching. You have to be able to put what you know into a framework into concepts that you can teach other people. Advice and teaching two separate things. You need a framework to teach. All right. Number two, how can you use your life experiences to demonstrate that you understand and can relate to the people that you want to serve so that you can build those transformative relationships.

The people that you want to serve need to trust you in order for you to lead them into the transformation that they desire. Right? So your story, that's the reason you lean into your story. You lean into what it is that you lived because your life experiences show that you understand where they are. They show that you are relatable. But again, you have to be able to package your story into a in a way that demonstrates that.

Okay? So that you're able to teach it. So here's the big idea around that is become a specialist. Too many people are generalizing advice. They're generalizing um the lessons that they've learned from their lived experiences instead of becoming a specialist. You need to be able to stand out. And this is specifically to attract premium clients, okay? Your premium buyers. So, it's not a $500 course, a $5,000 course, a $10,000 customer or buyer.

I want you to think about it like this. Grey's Anatomy. I stopped like in the middle of the series. I think it's still going. I don't know. But I saw that like season 13 or something. Um, but aside from that, here's what I want you to get from it. It's just like in this series, there were there I think like two general physicians maybe, and then everybody else had a specialty, at least up until the point that I watched.

It's the same thing as you go to your general physician, okay? You go there, you say, "Hey, I got this pain, let's say in my knee or my elbow, and I'm not sure what's going on." Your general physician is going to give you a physical, and they're going to be like, "All right, I think everything else looks good. not sure what the pain is. Maybe they have an idea, but they're going to refer you out to a specialist, to somebody who has spent more time, energy, and invested more money, okay, to figure out, okay, what exactly is going on.

When you go to the specialist, they're able to identify what's going on in like two seconds. All right, two seconds. And it's not just based on their book work. It's likely based on other clients, other things that they have seen. And they could tell you sometimes better than you could say what's going on with your elbow or knee. You can't even put it into words and they're telling you this is how you feel. This is probably what's going and you're like yeah right.

You need to be a specialist in that way. People who pay premium dollars are paying premium dollars for you to diagnose a very specific problem in a very specific way. So keep that in mind. Okay. Become a specialist. This is Chanel was in nonprofit newbies is her course. She's been in the nonprofit space for over 20 years. She didn't go create a a a course like Diana on how to sew handbags, right? She stayed in her niche, in her lane essentially.

And so she created courses around nonprofits. She has a course for people who want to create nonprofits. And she has another course for people who need grant funding for their nonprofits. Okay. So again, she's staying with her niche, her expertise, her story, her experiences, and she's using that to relate to other people and help them to get the transformation that they want. Same thing with you. Don't just create, okay?

Document your story. So when people are like putting content out there, sometimes they're just creating content. Use your space, the spaces where people trust you, social media or whatever have you, to document your story. What is it that you're truly able to help people with? and how can you show and exemplify your specialty or your expertise? Third thing, most people believe that you have to start out charging less than you're worth because no one knows you yet.

This I struggled with this a lot, especially being in service, okay? Service industries, growing up a PK, being in nonprofits, okay, I was like struggling with service and charging premium dollars. And so, here's the truth. You cannot scale quickly, especially if you want to create a side hustle, a business, whatever it is, if you're using the old model. And the old model is again serviceoriented, serviceminded, everything has to be free.

You don't have to offer everything free. You honestly don't need to offer anything free in your business or side hustle if that's not what you want to do. Like, you started a business because if you didn't want to make money, then you would have kept doing it for free, right? You're starting this business. You're starting this side hustle because we we want to make the money. And so the premium course freedom blueprint, the third thing is all about pricing.

So let's talk about premium pricing because I know this is the thing that's going to shift your mindset and how you think about showing up, especially when it comes to courses. This is going to shift how you view courses forever. You're going to be looking at like courses online and clicking links and you're going to be like, "Wait, wait a minute." Right? What does this happen here that can truly help shift and transform you?

So this is me again burnt out. Remember earlier focused on all the wrong things and my pricing just wasn't what it was supposed to be. Remember I raised my prices twice. Here's the thing about premium pricing. It requires premium energy. Okay? You can't charge premium prices and show up lacking confidence. Imagine you went to your specialist, your doctor. Okay? Your generalist referred you to the specialist. You walk in the office to see the specialist and they are sitting there shaking like a leaf, scared, okay, to give you a diagnosis, not really sure what's going on. you going to turn around and walk out and ask for a different um referral?

Okay? Because absolutely not. Who are you going to trust? All right? You're going to trust a specialist that's charging you $500 to let's say you needed something a knee replacement. You going to pay $500 to the specialist or are you going to go and pay $50,000? Like which one would you choose when it's something that you really really want? Premium pricing requires premium energy. So you attract what you believe you are worth.

You have to show up in that confidence and in that clarity. Now, I want to do some math real quick. I know it's early, but we're going to do it because I truly believe this is going to help you start to realize the prices that you should be setting. So, how much is an hour of your time worth? That's the question I want you to ask. Here's the math. The first thing that I want you to write down in a journal, okay, or on a piece of paper, like physically write these down.

It's very, very important. Is how much you want to be worth 5 years from today. That's the first number. Second number, how many weeks are you going to work per year? Third number, how many hours will you work per week? Now again, if we're working for ourselves, let's this is not a nineto-5. This is you for you, okay? How much do you want to be worth five years from today? How many weeks will you work per year? We are not working all the weeks of the year, okay?

In our own businesses. and how many hours will you work per week is definitely not 40 or 50 or 60. We're not doing that. Okay? So, make sure that these numbers reflect your dream life, what it is that you truly want. I'll give you an example really quickly. Let's say that you wrote down you want to be worth $10 million five years from today. How many weeks are you going to work per year? Let's say 42. But I only want to work, let's say, 25 hours per week.

All right? Totally doable. Here's how you're going to get the total. All right? And this is you're going to take the first number divided by the second number divided by the third number. So when we divide $10 million divided by 42 divided by 25 and you're going to take your numbers and do the same thing. This is what we get. $9,524. That is how much an hour of your time is worth when you start showing up like that. When you start showing up like, oh, if I'm not making whatever your total is, so let's round up.

Let's say $10,000 for this example. If I'm not making $10,000 an hour, what am I doing? So, every hour that you don't have a premium course, this is how I teach my clients, my students, my mentees. Every hour that you are afraid or operating in a lack of confidence, somebody like you're not making that $10,000 an hour and somebody can't get the transformation that you were supposed to be affecting through your story, through your service.

So when you start thinking like this, oh my time is worth $10,000 an hour is what my time is worth. You start showing up differently. You also start pricing differently. So the question is, would you rather sell one course for $10,000 or we'll do the math. All right, I'll show you real quick what this looks like. If you sell a $297 course, this is how many leads you're going to need in order to make a bare six figures.

All right, like so that first number, 20,000 leads. That's a lot. conversion rate, industry standard is like between two and 3%. So, I'm going to take two. Um, some people are doing 1%. So, we'll say between 1 and 3%. Um, the middle number is two. So, we're going to take a 2% conversion out of the 20,000 leads that I have at 2% conversion. I enrolled 400 people. So, I made a bare six figures. Okay? So, and that's not bad depending on what your goals are.

However, 20,000 leads is not where I want to be. You can't necessarily do that through organic unless you have a huge following. And most of the people um that are getting started with premium courses are like, I'm not techsavvy, don't want to do the social media thing. How do I show up? So 20,000 leads requires me then to cut into my profit because now I got to run ads, right? If I want to get 20,000 leads fast, I got to run ads.

I probably need to hire some people because I have 400 students enrolled, right, to help me manage my classroom if especially if I want to serve at a high level. That's a lot. So, that's a $297 course. Here's a $1,000 course. In case you're thinking, okay, I can get to a,000. You still need leads, but not as many. 10,000 leads. We still need to run ads probably to hit that if we want to hit it quickly. We still took the 2% conversion rate.

Okay, industry standard. 200 students are enrolled. we still probably need to hire at least one other person, probably two, right, to help serve at the highest level. We're still cutting into our profit margin. So, it's it's six figures. Now, we're we're kind of at the bare six figure mark, but we're kind of getting over the hump, right? So, we're at $200,000, but again, we're cutting into our profit. Now, let me show you something.

This is Chanel. I like to make it make sense, and I'm going to show you the best way to do this in a second. Now, Chanel worked with me back in like 2021. So premium wasn't the same as it is in 2025 going into 2026. But I just want to show you the disparity here. Enrolling less people, okay, in at higher price points is going to help you make more money. So she did four people at 5.97, three people at 117, which was her premium level at the time.

And since then, she has raised her prices. Okay? And remember, this is Chanel who teaches nonprofit courses. But the point here is that you can enroll less people at a higher price point and make more money. And I'm going to show you real quick what that looks like. Of course, here's the launch map. Let's say you have a $10,000 course. You do not need 20,000 leads anymore. You don't need 10,000 leads anymore. There are 100 people that you need, okay, to hit to reach.

There's a second another line here for accepted. So, this means that now we have a way to confirm whether or not someone is a right fit for our program. Okay, so we have 100 leads and we have 80 people accepted. So that means 20 people weren't this wasn't necessarily the right fit. We are converting now. I don't know about all the industry standards, but I know for my programs, my clients are converting at about 40%.

Because now we have a way to confirm whether or not this is the right fit for the people coming into our programs. Okay, so you can say an application form. All right. So, you have a 100 leads. You've accepted 80 of those folks. 40% converted and said, "Yes, I want to come into your high ticket program." That means we enrolled 32 people and we made almost We're getting up to the middle six figures, okay? Like $320,000.

I'm cool. I'm cool because now I also don't need to cut into my profit. I have a hundred leads. We can hit a hundred leads through organic social. We don't necessarily need ads, but imagine if we did run ads. Why not? because now our profit margin is higher. We also are converting at a higher rate. So, you have to be intentional. This is the the point of this is to be intentional, right, with your pricing, but also to be intentional with your programs.

If you're going to charge $10,000 or more per course, you do need a way to screen your applicants. Okay? You need an application system or some type of system where you're able to confirm if it's a good fit or a good match for your people coming into your program. But you can enroll less students and you can maybe hire another person if you want to or you can run it on your own for the first year, see how we do and then hire somebody the next year.

Okay? Because you have 32 students enrolled. That's it. Not 400. All right? This is looking better, right? Like I like that launch math better. All right? So premium pricing again is premium energy. You attract what you believe you're worth. Remember quality over quantity. And the other pro tip that I want to put here is to charge the worth of the transformation and results. So, imagine that you charge, let's say, okay, when I first started, I was not charging$10,000, $15,000, $20,000 for my programs.

Imagine me charging $3,000 for my program. And then my clients go and they start making like Diana Chanel, right? Like they're making uh six figures in under a year and I charged $3,000, right? You are charging based on you're people will never be able to pay you based on what your value is. You are invaluable. However, the worth of the transformation and results are what we can set a price point for. Okay, hopefully this is making sense.

So, you have to figure out who you are attracting. Who are you attracting based on your pricing, based on how you've positioned your expertise, your knowledge? You need to be attracting aligned clients. When you price higher, your clients who are coming into your programs are inherently getting better results, okay? Because they have paid more. Think about it like this. If you give someone something for free, how much do we typically value it?

Versus when we pay a certain amount for something, we pay a higher amount for something, we start caring about things a little bit more. It's just the way that it is. It's pricing psychology. So, you have to understand your align clients don't need convincing. They're waiting for clarity. All right? So, think about like the Toyota dealership versus the Lexus dealership. I love Lexus. Okay? If you think about the two, someone walking into a Toyota dealership might be shopping around for a day, two days, a week, two weeks.

Someone walking into a Lexus dealership, they know what it is that they want. They didn't walk in for the free keychain. They walked in because they wanted to buy a car. All right? So, this is who you need to be talking to, your aligned clients. They don't need convincing. They're already there to buy the car, to buy the thing, to buy your course, your product, your service. So if you want to be known globally, you are going to have to become a specialist.

This is how you stand out. This is how you are not flooded, okay, in the market saying the same thing that everybody else is saying. You stand out with your story. You become a specialist. This is what took Diana from $5,000 months to $4,000 days. All right. This is what took Chanel from no courses. She was sitting on her course idea for two years. She went from no courses to two courses and six figures in nine months.

This is the same thing. is just really focusing in on what's your story, what's your expertise, how can you turn that into a specialty. All right? So, I want you to imagine enrolling two to three clients in your courses priced at $5,000 or $10,000 per week. Imagine an an additional even if you price it at $5,000 and enroll two students, that's 10 grand a week. If you price it at $10,000 and enroll two students for the month, $20,000 for the month.

What can you do with an extra five grand a week or 20 grand a month, right? You only need a few students at those price points versus selling that ebook, all right, and selling a thousand copies or however many copies in order to hit your monthly sales goals. You hit your monthly sales goals in a day if you wanted to. And all you would have to do is enroll one client, one or two clients. Your dream clients are watching and waiting for your clarity.

They know what they want, know what they need. They may not be able to verbalize it, but remember that's why you're the specialist. That's why you're the expert. All right? They come to you because you can verbalize what it is that they actually need or what they've been thinking about wanting. It's not about hustle. It's about harmony and alignment. When you are in harmony, you are confident. You are in alignment. You don't need to be posting constantly every little thing, okay, all day, every day in order to attract aligned clients.

All you have to do is align, be confident, and step into it boldly. Start telling your story and your clients will find you. Okay? It's a matter of you stepping into and I love this quote. One of my students pulled it out one day and everybody kind of latched on to it. But it really is this. It's a matter of you stepping into your expertise more powerfully, claiming the value of the transformation. You have to offer the market.

Remember, nobody else can tell your story. You are the only person who can do that effectively and accurately. You might as well do it while you are here. All right. So the freedom blueprint again is your knowledge, your positioning, and your pricing. Those are the three pillars that are going to help you start to even pre-ell your courses before you have created them. And that's the method I teach because that's empowering.

Imagine somebody pays you $5,000 or $10,000 to learn what it is that you know to for you to teach your story before you even have a product or service finished. It is amazing and it is truly like freedom. I can't even like explain it. Okay. Also that fulfillment that comes from your students and knowledge and knowing that you have impacted somebody else's life, transformed somebody else's life is I cannot explain that feeling.

So your knowledge is your passport, your story is the strategy and the strategy is your freedom. It really is that simple. Now it's your turn. Let's jump. Okay, I'm super excited uh for questions and all those awesome things. I hope that you have gotten so many amazing insights and you can scan this really quickly if it is something that you're looking to figure out what can I teach. This is scannable and there's a downloadable PDF that I have called the teach it sheet that's going to walk you through exactly from start to finish.

Teach it is one of my proprietary methods. So, it's topic expertise, it's your audience and understanding who you want to serve, creating your content and how to start crafting that, how to package it, how to introduce it, and then your timeline for scaling up. And so it's a digital course planner that will walk you through every single step from again choosing your course topic to scaling your premium course. I'm excited.

Thank you so much, Dr. Sonia. I wish we had another hour or two hours for Q&A, but we have a little bit of time. I'm going to try my hardest not to be the selfish person and ask my questions only. Rashida Rashida and I will uh ask the audience's questions, but I do want to start off with where to tell the story. So, you were very um you talked to us about positioning and how to make sure that we share our story and our life experiences.

That's part of our positioning. Where do we tell this [clears throat] story? >> Excellent. Excellent question. So, it's social media is like you can reach anybody. And that's the beauty of it is it's just getting started on social. And I know for a lot of people it's like this scariness of jumping out there, putting myself out there. What I like to tell my clients is make sure that you're teaching from places that you have healed from, right?

And sharing from places you've healed from. So scars, not wounds. Wounds are those places that are still open that we're still And sometimes we may touch a scar and it still hurt a little bit, right? So, we want to back off a little bit because you don't want to cause further injury to you or somebody else. However, social media is one of these places. It doesn't matter which platform you choose. And the teacher me, excuse me, the teach it sheet will go through the A is for audience and tell you exactly who your person is.

And then you figure out, okay, where's this person hanging out? Now, most people will, you know, say, choose one social media platform to get started. And you absolutely should. It should be the place that your people are most hanging out. Um, however, understand that your person on that social media platform, they're also on the other platforms too, right? Like cuz how many of us have LinkedIn, Instagram, you know, Facebook, we have all the things.

But the place where you want to start telling your story is the place where your story will connect with them most emotionally on an emotional level. So, you know, people on LinkedIn are typically looking for job opportunities or business opportunities, those sorts of things. And so, you would just want to tell your story, start telling your story in the place you feel will most connect with your audience. But social media is key, especially today, 2025 to 2026.

It's all interest based. So, you the people don't even have to be following you anymore to really see your content, which is amazing. >> Yeah. All right. Questions from the audience. Oh. Uh, how do you know if you're adding value to your course versus doing too much work? >> Oh, that's a good one. That was me in the beginning doing worksheets, [laughter] worksheets and workbooks and all the things and nobody needed. My clients were like, we that's fine.

This is great. It looks pretty and all the things, but we actually need more of this. And so my advice to you would be to pre-sell the course. Pre-ell it. Let the people coming into your program who have voted with their credit cards to go, "Yes, I want that." Because we shouldn't be taking advice. This is my opinion. We shouldn't be taking advice from people in a in business who haven't purchased our products and services.

It makes no sense. You will always find conflicting information and opinions and advice. So, focus on the people who purchased your products and services who have voted and said, "Yes, I want that." And build with them. Like, allow them to help you build and create the content that they really want to see in your program. That way you'll know that it is valuable and impactful and you're not creating for the sake of creating.

That was a great question. >> So, >> yeah, I want to follow up. How do you how would you tell someone who's never made a course before to sell pre-ell a course? Like what what what should they be doing? >> Excellent. First things first, you got to show up. You got to show up on social. And you know, one of the ways a few years ago that actually really helped is yes, telling people, the people, you know, relatives, friends, all those folks about what it is that you're doing, but not necessarily selling to them, right?

Like I've had some of my friends or associates purchase my products and services, but they did that on their own. It wasn't like a proclamation to go, you need to, you know, buy this or send somebody who, you know, to buy this thing. So, it's a proclamation for you to go, I'm doing this. And then once you do that step, it is easier for you to start putting yourself out there. But social media is free, okay, right now as it stands.

And I don't think it's going to stay that way forever. We're not going this is not going to be this version forever. However, you got to just start telling your story. Just hop on social and go. I got this thing. I promise you, there are people who are experienced the challenges that you've already overcome. And it's on you to show up, tell your story so that you can attract them to you and start talking about, hey, I have this offer.

This is what I'm offering. This is what I'm doing. The more you start talking to people about what you're doing, the more concise and succinct your offer becomes. >> So then how do someone who is pre trying to pre-ell and it's not working, how what how do they know what to test? Do how do you know whether you need to scrap this whole idea or if it's just some some other problem that's meaning that you're not getting pre-sales? >> That's a really good question.

Um, you just need a lot of data like and I'm a data person so you just got to talk to enough people like sometimes is that you haven't tested you know the the actual um product or service or course enough people haven't seen it yet. So, let's say you haven't made a pre-sale, and this has come up for my clients. They'll like DM me and they'll go, "Man, I I talked to people for like a week or two weeks, and you know, no one's bought yet." I'm like, "Well, how many people has it been?" And they're like, "Oh, 15, 20." I'm like, "Just keep going." You know, [laughter] and then that next WEEK THEY'RE LIKE, "I MADE MY FIRST SALE." SO, it just really depends on how you're showing up, like what your influence is, how many, you know, people that you have touched or reached out to.

Uh, and it doesn't have to take 15 or 20 people. I've seen some of my clients do it in 24 hours. You know, they've sold $5,000 worth of uh services and courses. And so, it just depends on how you're showing up. It depends on how you're telling your story. But my advice to that question specifically would be keep going. Like there's >> for a hundred nos, you're gonna find a yes. Okay, but you got to keep going. Don't be discouraged.

Keep going. >> Listen, friends, this is serious advice, okay? Rachel Rogers told us yesterday, get it, get your get your thing in front of a thousand relevant people, >> right? This idea of asking six people, your six your six YouTube subscribers, and nobody purchased is not enough of a test. It's not enough for you to say it's not working. No, asking the group chat if a course is a good idea is not that's not it. >> Oh my goodness.

Especially not family and friends. What? They don't. And they're typically not even going to be your buyers. They're not your customer avatar. If that were the case, they would have been taking your advice for years, [laughter] right? >> All right, Steph. >> Oh. Um uh I want to talk about there's a question about a topic that let's let me just ask the question for those of us who have a skill that people are going to go to AI to learn right with the advent of AI how can I different differentiate what I offer versus what AI can do? >> Excellent question.

I love these questions and I am I like AI but also okay AI cannot replace you as a human like literally it cannot be like oh this is your story from when you were a kid and how you grew up and how you felt and what you saw and what you heard right like it can't replace the human touch and I foresee especially in the next few years especially as we start to lean more into AI which there are great tools okay for um helping to spark ideas and helping to give you that one little thread that you can pull on, but it will not replace a human touch.

And for premium courses specifically, your premium buyers are looking for the human touch. They're looking for mentorship. They're looking for the coaching piece. They're looking for give me this succinct, specific result. All right? And help me skip the time because I don't have time to be researching. All right? I don't have time to figure out all the stuff. Like, I know you know it because you did it. And so that's what your premium buyers are looking for.

They want the result in less time. And AI is it just not it doesn't give the human touch that is necessary for those buyers. I mean, think about the example I gave about car dealerships, right? Luxury car dealerships. Your premium buyers are walking in there knowing what it is that they want and they they don't necessarily if they wanted to, they would have bought it online, but they're walking in because they want to see it in person.

They want to talk to an actual person. They want to talk to somebody who knows about how it rides, how it drives, all those things. They want to get straight to the point. And so AI will never replace you. Somebody can go online and type in and figure out and see something. But also AI is a tool that does not encourage execution either. So your human touch is the thing that your people need to start executing. That's the accountability and support they're looking for. >> Your auto dealership uh analogy hel.

So what you said was aligned clients don't need convincing and that is we Rashidita and I are witnesses of that right we don't convince people that you need to move abroad we don't convince people whatever we're like here's some tools to help you if you need the money here's let's here are some problems we know that you have if you need the money come Dr. Dr. Sonia is going to teach you how to make the money, right? Uh, friends, aligned clients don't need convincing.

I wrote that down with stars and asterisks and underlines, and I hope y'all did, too. >> I love that. >> All right, a related question, Dr. Sonia. Um, should the premium course be a live course interact with clients or could it be pre-recorded? >> Oh, another good question. I mean, these are great questions. Um, you can pre-record the course. All right. So, you can pre-record the course, but the mentorship aspect of it like needs to be live.

You need a live component to it because that's what your premium buyers are paying for. They are not paying to sit and go through all the information that you want to put in your course. All right? So, don't overwhelm them in that course. They are going because again, back to my earlier point, this is what I need. This is what I need right now. You just give me the answer. Okay? They don't want to go searching through all this stuff.

And so, don't overload your course either with a whole bunch of information. It doesn't need to be what you learned when you were three all the way up to, you know, 53. Like, we don't need [laughter] we don't need the playbyplay. We need what? And this is why it's clarity and confidence, right? Because you got to know what's the course that you're creating. What's the outcome that you are delivering for your people and it has to be something very specific.

That's what premium buyers want, very, very specific information. And so, um, yeah, to that point, just make sure that it's succinct, specific, and also the it's not a trend. It's what is happening with premium courses today instead of people sitting and going through a bunch of pre-recorded content. You as the human, as the expert, as the mentor can point them directly to what the answer is. So, let's say you have the content laid out in your courses. when you hop on your coaching and mentorship sessions with your premium buyers, you're going to go, "Okay, go to module four, um, lesson two, and the answers, I need you to review that." That's something that is going to, um, give you more information or guidance about this particular question, right?

So, they don't have to even go through it module by module anymore. It's really about pointing them to specifically what they need and want in that moment. >> Okay. Um, I'm gonna jump in real quick, cut Stephanie off. Um, when you're doing that, you already talked about building a team, but how do you know what team members to add at what point? Because I can imagine that if you have 20 people in a premium course and they're all like, I'm where do I do with this thing now?

And they've paid you $10,000, they want responses pretty quickly. That can get overwhelming for one person or you may not be able to have those weeks off. um that you want if you don't have a team. So between the execution of the course and the marketing and all the other things you have to do as a premium course provider, how do you know how to build out your team? >> Excellent. So some of the team can also be AI, right?

Which is amazing and happening uh as we you know continue to find these developments with our technology. You just need to know which systems like number one, you need to know which season you're in. I always say this, know those are your season of business. Like where are you currently because I tried hiring when I first started. I was hiring mentors, coaches, and people for the team. Um, and I wasn't ready yet because I didn't know my season of business.

I was hiring people to help me with email marketing and social media marketing and ads. And it's like, well, wait a minute, not all at once, right? You need to know what season of business you are currently in and where you want to grow to and you hire based on where you're going to, right? So, let's say that you do have 20 people enrolled or 32 people enrolled in your programs and courses. Some of the systems on the back end can be you can use AI, you can use technology to fulfill some of those systems, have it all scheduled out that gives you back your free time.

You may have another coach or a mentor that you hire to assist um you know when you are not available. But the other thing I want to put here too and a VA, right? Like it just depends on how you want to structure your business and the systems that you can put in place on the back end. But I want to put here too, your premium clients aren't as demanding, >> right? >> They understand like they're like, "Yeah, I'm on vacation too, girl.

[laughter] I'll be back." You know, your premium clients aren't they're not hassling you like that. Like it's just it's a different type of again goes back to the luxury car dealership analogy. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Listen, time that was quick. I told you we we could use another hour, but real quick, what's your favorite ads platform today? This is our question. >> Um, it probably has to be Meta. So, yeah. So, Facebook.

Yeah, Facebook ads. Yep. >> Okay. Facebook plus IG. >> Yes. Facebook plus IG. But then, you know, I mean, that's like, is it a favorite? [laughter] >> You know, >> it's the one that works for you. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> One more question in the same vein. What's your favorite course platform? >> Oh, that's a good one. Um, we don't necessarily have a course platform at uh this. Yeah, because premium clients, right?

They just want access. So, we do individual um client portals, >> which is fun. >> Cool. >> Yeah. >> And you can use any software for that. But yeah, that's the up level. That's the luxury experience that your your premium level clients are looking for. So, you don't need a platform. And even if you're just getting started, you don't need a platform to do it. Okay. Wait. No. No. [laughter] No. >> Okay. So, you're create are you creating something specific for each client or are you duplicating the same thing over and over for a client?

So, maybe a small twe small tweak. >> Yes. Small tweaks. So, things can be duplicated, but then like depending on the premium client and what it is that they need. Remember I talked about like directing them specifically to what they need, where they need it, and when they need it. So, everything is already created, right? And then we just add things or remove things to remove distractions. We keep it clean and simple depending on um the type of client that we're servicing. >> Okay. >> And then your portals include like Kajjabi or >> No, we you actually use is a different type of software.

So we do use Clickfunnels. Love Clickfunnels. Hosted my courses there for a while before we started moving into other platforms. So this other platform that we use is called Sweet Dash. Um, and so that's been very helpful in setting up uh private client portals. >> Okay, thank you. >> That's helpful. Yeah, I would have never considered that. So, thank you. >> Yes, please do. Please do. It's fun and it's easy. Yeah. >> All right.

So, Sonia, Dr. Sonia, the QR code you shared, is that to the same teach it sheet that you that your team sent us? >> Yes. Yes, it's to the PDF, the downloadable version. >> Okay. So friends, if you didn't get the QR code, that's already the what she linked to is already linked to in the description of this course. So you can download it there. Fill it out. Dr. Sony made it just for us. So go ahead and grab it. We we want you to have it. >> Yes, please. >> Yes. >> Enjoy. >> All right.

Thank you. >> Thank you. [laughter] Y'all are awesome. >> Was wonderful. Wonderful. Fantastic. Super helpful. Thank you, friends. This is one you're gonna want to watch this replay many, many times. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Dr. Sonia.