S1E12: "Odd Man Out" | Writer/Producer Karyn Usher | Creating An Escape Plan In Real Time | PB Logic transcript

[Music] hello Paul hello Sarah um welcome back to this episode of Prison breaking with Sarah and Paul we are actually really picking up steam here yes we are the episodes are getting like crazy I I thought you meant the podcast was crazy our podcast is also in fact f it has less twists and turns the podcast does less twists and turns in the show certainly this episode of the show that's true and less shanking there's less shanking on the podcast there yes I mean so far okay episode 112 of season 1 odd man out stuff is really starting to heat up in Fox River and out in the streets of Chicago this is a big episode this is a big episode and there's some real questions of conscience uh in this episode we've been talking about the sort of ethics of what it means to be a good person um in the show we have some come to Jesus moments uh in one case quite literally uh quite literally it's all stuff we want to talk about and it turns out that we have the perfect guest to discuss just that we really do we have Karen Usher with us um Karen wrote on Prison Break for its entire run um we have a lot of questions with her we've got your fan questions from our Instagram but before we jump in with Karen let's get to our favorite callese index yes odd man well I was PR then you there's something in called a dramatic pause I'll be quiet we'll talk about I know that on TV they're like pick up your cues there's no space but now we're in Peak we're in Peak podcast we can take long meaningful okay the cisin index for odd man out it premiered on November 21st 2005 was written by Pati sharing and today's guest Karen Usher and was watched by 10.08 million people the TV ma.com summary reads with proof that his Escape Plan is working Michael gets suited up to overcome the vertical limits of his last obstacle back in pi as the Escape attempts draw near the group tries to reduce their number by one and targets teabag who has some insurance in his pocket outside the Prison Walls LJ Slips Away to attend his mother's funeral which is also attended by her murderer Veronica gets a call from an unlikely Source Who sheds light on the night of teren Stan's assassination and as uh usual now the show is up against Two and a Half Men on CBS Las Vegas on NBC in the Monday 900m time slot and Monday Night Football uh over on what would that have been ABC ABC um the Vikings beat the Packers 20 to 17 in world events Germany went to the polls not the Polish people people polls but the voting booth polls and Angela Merkel became the first female chancellor of Germany or wait hold on maybe they didn't go to the polls is that a parliamentary Federation is she elected by moving on in other history she sorry um but in other things that are good for women around the world uh Ellen Johnson surle was elected president of Liberia becoming the first African woman elected to lead that country and on November 21st it was the last time a human being won a chess match against a top performing computer under normal tournament conditions ultimately the man versus Machine World Championships saw the computers beat the three former world champions 8 to four odd man out indeed oo seamless segue bringing us back to Prison Break episode 12 odd man out we're gonna rewatch it shall we yeah here we go come join us we're gonna do it now 5 4 3 2 1 go I would love to watch West Morland just beat someone's butt I love your sound cues I don't think I have a sound qu I don't think anybody has a sound CU on the show like you guys do oh wait she's absolutely pregnant that's what the Pio means that's they were having a baby music CU you didn't put a false ad in the paper did you we just knew to follow just knew to he's going to show cuz if you planted the ad of the paper too that would be super smart awfully badly nefarious and super smart and Dastardly and that's everything we need to know about teabag okay wow that was an episode of Television that was a lot and there's a lot to discuss we'll be right back to talk about all of it here okay we are back and we found ourselves during this rewatch asking ourselves even more than usual how did they come up with that one um it is just full of of amazing twists turns reversals surprises um which is great because this is perfect timing because our guest today co-wrote the episode as well as writing or co-writing and astonishing 14 episodes of Prison Break across the series a few of Karen ushers many many many many credits include bones Backstrom the Lion's Den the Playboy club and One Tree Hill I love you Joy lens uh it is important to say not only did she write or co-write for episodes of present break but as a coep on the show she was crucial in shaping the entire series uh she was also one of the very few female writers on the show we'll talk about that Karen hello hi Karen welcome it's so strange to hear the context of when this happens that's right yeah it's been one of the it's been one of the things that has been blowing our minds weekly um how things are so different yeah no particularly television Vision yeah I would I would have never guessed and I also forgot we were up against Monday Night Football yeah and also 10 million viewers yeah which now is like you know those are Super Bowl numbers unheard of yes yeah unheard of yeah um so okay so many questions so many things to talk about would love to start with and we'll have you back on the show if you want to come back on the show we don't have to cram it all in today but just to start with if I remember right our order was not 22 Episodes right which tells me at some point we started with what 13 or something yeah you guys had an escape planned and at some point fox goes we love this we'd like more episodes and you guys have to go cool Co cool co co cool now we'll write eight or nine or 10 more episodes of breaking out of prison yeah yeah is that what happened well I mean it's Mar I mean in broadcast television that you get an order after your pilot you get like an order for 12 episodes and then you get what we call the back nine if the show is successful um you always notice that prison break every season had kind of like a finale not that we were going to get canceled Midstream but we had two segments essentially so every season has a big twist around episode 12 13 whatever that break is and then something kind of completely different like there's a there's just a big paradigm shift in the middle and it is because of exactly what you're saying uh I'm honestly I don't remember what the plan was going to be if we didn't whack but um you know especially back in those days you have you you're kind of writing right behind you don't have much time between writing and airing right by the time we were airing probably number four we knew we were on good shape so okay it so we kind of had a mid-season finale which I remember we would maybe go even go off the air for a few weeks yeah give every you guys a chance to catch up and post a chance to catch up and then but it it brings up a larger question we keep asking the pilot was made and there is obviously this incredibly detailed plan with the tattoo and with all these things tattooed on his body that are going to pay off down the road how much of the Escape Plan and the kind of intricacy of it from cute poison to English Fitz and Percy to this water tunnel to all that stuff was there like on day one of the room or was it like okay you guys we need to figure out how to break somebody out of prison I would say I mean as kind of like also customary with TV back at this time um we were really like we all got in the room and sort of started from there you know in a big white if you would have looked at Michael's tattoo in the big wine shot at the end of the pilot it did not have right little details that's why a lot of times not only is it on his arm so that he can look at it but it's also on his arm because it's not in that big wide shot we were adding his as time went on Paul sharing wrote The Pilot beautifully shot by BR um and he I don't know if this was good or bad but I in Paul's mind he imagined Escape based on the actual out like based on the layout of Juliet so oh so if you look at that overhead shot of Julie the where the cell block where where Michael and suit gry cell was where the infirmary was if you drew a diagram as we did many times we kind of really were breaking out of that prison I mean we were taking a lot of liberties with how it worked but that layout in Paul's mind it was important and it kind of was fun honestly to like take these pieces and go okay this is where he is today but by the time you're like let's say that by the time we're in we're English fits and Percy which is I think two episodes or three episodes previously did you also know that there was going to be this um shaft of water that got them to the top we had like temp PES of the Season where we were going but that said we didn't break those episodes in minutia and quite honestly that episode prior to this we didn't exactly break it to be this way and when Zach turned in his script and the end of his script said that one of us can't go was not original the plan and I oh my God what did you do to me and Alstead was like no I like it so like we kind of had to go back in and we do some rejiggering so um that's a big Liberty to take yeah yeah no but it really kind of the best part of best endings on Prison Break gave you that like how are they going to get out of this and there was also we did not know how we were going to get from the bottom of that shoot I don't remember why why in our minds this thing this this drain was so big but we didn't know how he was going to get up it when we started breaking this episode and it was not easy it was bad oh wow so can I just ask a question that I think would be fun to answer and you can absolutely say no what's the worst idea like do you have any from the four or five season first of all was it four seasons did you write on season five the Reb I did not write on the reboot but like was there anything that you can remember a moment where someone goes you guys let's try this and everyone kind of goes o i mean the two moments that come to mind are that the original um you know when Michael uh has the devil fa like projects the devil's face on the wall somebody might have already told you this in this but um originally that was Jesus like on a like on like that on the cross right yes that was not that like Fox wasn't super down with that and because then you'd be hammering on G like hammering and in yeah the what are they called the what things Stigmata yeah Stigmata basically this is where you nail oh so that didn't yeah we that didn't play we had to change that you did get your Jesus imagery back though you did get and we were actually very shocked that that much Jesus made it onto network television yeah actually I'm I'm shocked about it too like looking back at it and I didn't yeah honestly on this show sometimes I think like hearing things and like oh wow we I'm surprised like a character named t or avocado balls Johnson like we spell we would spell it like balls b a l z Johnson and it went clear and it's like no no I hate to bring us to the gutter but like how we we've talked about it at least three times did the teabag was that were you guys like they still haven't said anything did they just don't know did they just miss not know show was loaded with Rusty trolls yes I heard that the other day yeah and yeah so um I mean I think the teabag I don't no one ever yeah no one's oh wow wow and I love that it's later that someone's like oh theater Bagwell be like right exactly we're gon that that is reverse engineering that's what that means I also love somebody's got to go there's this whole AB bruty storyline about him kind of finding God and then tag slits his throat and it's an incredible reversal it sends the series it sends the whole Escape Plan in a completely different way yeah we knew a Brut we knew that was going to be a bruty was going to die we knew we wanted it to be a a Twist we knew we wanted a big episode for a britsy if he was going to die um we all know how things work on prison break so I killed the bruty twice we've all died at least once I died twice I died at least twice yeah I know um so yeah I killed the BR twice but we did know and that's why he has this you know this big good story I was very proud there was a website called The Futon Critic back in the day oh yeah sure I remember one of their hund best episodes of the year so I was like congratulations so I remember being very happy about that because I do that's good episode wait can we back up for one second Paul is that all right of course back up for how did you end up writing on the show and I'm asking that partly because I'm curious but partly because you were one of the only women writing on the show I think we had one female director um we we have gotten now to episode 12 we've got one scene that passes the beell test like this is a super dude heavy show at a time in television when the mythology was women can't write action women can't write sci-fi you know what I mean like they're again 2005 um I'm not saying that everything's better but things have changed a little how did you end up on the broest show with the broest writers honestly I went through the Staffing process I'm trying to remember if the show before was One Tree Hill which was kind of out of my wheelhouse honestly like back at that time we would write back episodes we called them that were of existing television shows and that's I remember when we were when you were a lower level writer because you did not get born at the top definitely and my I worked for the female showrunners at John Wells who like everyone told me when I was a baby writer like you're going to do this for 10 years before you write a pilot so we um I had most of my samples were things like The Sopranos and I actually used to write with a lot of male protagonists so I had examples that were probably relevant and then I just got called for a meeting with Joe hips probably off that that sample the who worked with Don and Marty at their company and I remember reading the pilot on the way to that meeting and going this is so Preposterous this is so crazy toally my agent and I can kind of remember talking to my agent he's still my agent and I was like what is this and he's like no no it's good it's good it's good you've got to see the pilot it's so good and so it took me a minute to like wrap my head around it and then I met with you know Paul and Matt and everyone and I got the job and it ended up being my it's my longest it's the longest run I've ever had was um and you don't we can obviously also cut anything out we want um we're not live um was it a broy writers room you you can address as much or as a little of that as you can it definitely a different time let's just be clear like it was a different time in terms of how in terms of how all writers room were I mean I had never been on a show where we did things like pay the assistants a hundred bucks to shave their heads but at the same time sorry yeah we'll get back to that okay I'm making a note yeah but um but at the same time um the sort of the I think almost the subject matter being a male prison being like such a small you know if there just were you know there's like Sarah on the screen and there's like me in the room and we had Monica meser we had clinda Vasquez during the the run of the show but um I wouldn't say honestly that the humor or anything that was handled was any different than a lot of other shows that I've been on and the showrunners were definitely like really excellent showrunners both Matt you know Matt allstead is I still have an inner mat allstead in my head that like when as a showrunner now I'm like I get into a mess I have like my inner onstead that's like do this do you know what I mean so yeah Paul was so creative honestly Paul is crazy in like a good way so we had really strong leadership and I think um I look back at some of the other shows that I was on on Fox and with far more women in the room and they were equally broy well and you know which by the way was a game that we were all taught we had to play right like you have to be you have to be one of the guys I have a very dark sense of humor I developed in high school I'm I'm definitely a Gen X cynical dark sense of humor person so it really I'm there might have been a certain sentiment back when I was younger where it's like we have to hire a woman so I guess we'll take Usher you know what I mean well and you know I think both you and Paul make a really good point which is what you see on the screen and the numbers of men versus women don't necessarily Define what is and is not a sort of broy world or even a healthy culture I mean you know you're coming off of One Tree Hill and like I've worked with both Hillary and joy and they've talked extensively on their podcast about like I don't speak elicity people publicly Mark Schwan and I did not get along I'll be honest about that and I felt everyone on that show was a prisoner and I pretty much I was not on the first episode so when I got there on episode 13 or whenever I walked in and I was like what is going on here I mean it really so coming from that culture to have like Nick santor telling jokes that sounded like they were like bche belt humor was not off I mean it just there was it wasn't you know so it was a really good group it also every writer's room is sort of functionally different yeah and um this room was one of the most functional rooms I've ever been in people did not agree on the story necessarily but it was the right mix of people to come up with the best story that you know what I mean so it was a really functional room and everyone could write the show part of that that is you know just the expectation that everybody had to write the show but um yeah it was a really good group but we didn't ever get episodes being like Oh God it's this one you know like we've all been on shows where you're like there is one writer who can't write the show and you get that episode and you just go I just have to wait for the blue Pages this doesn't make sense for a show that was so intricately plotted there was not a a ton of rewriting going on between production draft and shooting I mean there were obviously pages and there were changes but I mean I've been on so many shows that get blown up over and over and over even mid episode that seemed to almost never happen with it yeah no I mean that is because that is a lot of that comes from onstead who was from like the bodco camp John Wells Camp is the same way where basically there's not going to be like this is the script we're going to get it in on time blowing up can happen on any show but honestly once the show started rolling this I felt like the studio and network were almost reading it from the place of the fan that was like oh we can't wait to know what happens next which ended up being really great for us the hard part for us was reconceiving at the end of every season everyone wanted to debate what the next season was going to be and that's when we would get batted back and be told no and then that's when Matt would tell them that they could take it or leave and we were all going bowling and we would literally go bowling until they agreed to do he was like you can fire us we'll be bowling and then we would get to do our show so like You' go bowling every day until you heard from them it usually was a day where we were bowling was a day that we would go bowling and they would be like okay wow that did happen like on as we were Reinventing the show you could ask him about it well because every season was radically different yeah was that was the hard part yeah and TV didn't do that then can I just small thing for the fans botcho camp for people who don't know what are the botko shows that Matt was coming from because they were a big deal NYPD Blue like Matt from NYPD Blue and so which was a great show that I yeah I was like in college I mean I didn't I didn't watch it until later but it was it was great but it phenomenal show yeah and a lot show Runners don't necessarily um espec now you're going to have showrunners that don't that didn't have to do this thing where you learned the whole process and you so at that time a lot of us Zach you know his he was like a second generation writer I mean there were just we had to learn what we were doing and so we were prepared which brings me back to another thing we felt I felt from the room there is a sense of joy in the storytelling and I think there's a sense of Joy coming from the writer room like there's a real Vibe one thing that was different about this show is writers can self censor themselves and kind of overly like um think too hard about what's logical nobody ever gets to the end of any story and goes like Oh my god did you see that episode it was amazing it was so logical that's not what's entertaining and so true times um our stories on Prison and break were would be something that would be that would we'd be like oh my God are we really going to do the story where teabag is taped to a toilet on network television like are we really going to do that and then would' be like yeah yes we are that yeah yeah I mean there's an irreverence to it yeah I mean I think in a lot of ways it was um Prison Break was kind of the first or second idea that came out of the room that was the good idea and I think a lot of canceled shows frankly are especially back at that time were shows were you had big huge rooms that were too large so everybody was you know you have TW 12 people can't make a story um and they and the eighth best idea would win and I what was there a total a tonal guide that you guys would sort of stick with like we talk a lot about the tone of the show and I remember Wentworth was talked about it being like a little bit comic Booky a little bit like it's not a gritty slice of light this is how life is yeah I mean the pilot was so good in terms of executing a specific tone that I think good Benchmark to go by um and I think that is you know that's what hard about doing like the show I'm doing right now we don't we're going to start shooting them and we don't know what they are until we shoot all eight of them so Pilots can help really set that tone um I did find it comic bookie particularly in some of the shots frankly and the height and nature of the world there are lots of things that are not it's not overly researched frankly like what was the most fundamentally um accurate thing in the show is sort of a depiction of generally prison like the function of a prison like how we did a lot of we were in a lot of prisons and and so we did do like prison research but when it comes to like how electricity works doesn't work yeah right um by the way I remember season 4 we went to Comic-Con went and domini and my initial I was like why are we going to com this is by the way this is whatever 2009 so ComicCon San Diego was still awesome it was still like Geeks and nerds and people who were truly in love with it it wasn't this sort of overblown insane Film Festival um and I turned to Wentworth and I was like what are we doing at Comic-Con and he was like this is this is a comic book yeah we are shooting a liveaction comic book and I thought that was a really it was interesting and kind of Apt and I love that you guys didn't spend so much time with the logic police that the show got less fun because it was so I mean it was so fun to watch him plug this hole and then you're like what are you doing with this garbage bag and then there's drips of water and it's not until you go oh my God he's so whing in this beautiful extraordinary wonderful comic book shot yeah without for a second going but is a bag full of clothes G to keep a pipe yeah sh what of the water sound of the water like shut up it's fun yeah speaking of fun can we go back to paying the writers assistance $100 to shave their heads I'm so excited about this tell me everything because one of those assistants was a guy was Seth from my college and Seth has never told me the story um it was Seth and I believe Seth did shave his head and I just remember it was first it was like first season it was in the first we were in an office that we didn't stay in very long I don't think um and I had been in the office that's what I was not one Tre Hill it was a show called Northshore and I was in the office and the show changed and I stayed in the office and the show went from being Northshore to this new office that's what it was and the assistants were paid 100 bucks to shave their heads and they all went for it amazing they maybe assigned that assistants are underpaid if I was in my if I was 22 and I was like someone offered me 100 bucks shave my head on the street I probably would have well and I know Monica mesar was a was a story editor probably at that time and she's like can I shave my head can I shave I get Paul if I offered you a 100 bucks right now would you shave your head no oh okay 10,000 1,000 um no no would you I mean that's probably inflation no but it's gon but it's gonna take me six years to grow my hair back you look great you'd have a great Ripley you'd have a great alien for look like an alien yeah the back of my head is not shaped properly in fact one of the things my husband once said to me like we were early dating and he was like giving me a head massage and he's like do yourself a favor don't ever shave your head said with love oh can I ask you one and feel free not to answer this question but one last question that has come up a bunch of times um actors changing lines I I mean it happened on this show in a way that I've never really seen on other shows and you guys work hard on episodes and I just you know like we also and this is somewhat inside baseball but a lot of shows like the last show I was just on WE shot on the Paramount lot if I had a question about the script I would walk down to the writer's room and I would go hi guys can I have a kombucha and can I ask a question about what this is how do I make this work right because I my understanding is clearly off because I don't get it and they would go oh no no no you're not you're dumb it's left not right oh okay great we're going right okay great we figured out you guys were in La we were in Chicago or Dallas or whever but we were almost never in La how does that sit like was it like oh okay well they got the sense of the scene and that's fine or would you sometimes get dailies and go oh I labored over this baby and this baby is now dead and nobody said it you know what I mean I've worked with kefir southernland so if you want to know about like not saying your lines like it I don't be right as he goes oh my God like you just like oh my God they're paying a lot of money for these scripts that he isn't Sayang um the I don't remember um I don't remember our stories falling apart in that way I don't think that we weren't like you know I don't know there's uh the writer Erin Soren who's famous for writing like his first show was the westwing now famous for writing so many things um that she would be really like you can't change this if to a but right mhm um in general this is just my opinion in general I want to sound what I want the dialogue to sound like it's coming out of the actor's mouth rather than coming off the page it's more important so like if if I'm in casting and somebody comes in I I would rather them understand the material and say what they would be saying and so that I can get a of how they're going to play the rule then stick right to every that s dialogue isn't particularly precious like I don't I just the way I write if it's a joke and you botch it up if it's something that's like you know what I mean like I I don't want you to like mess up humor and then it has to be cut out that's what I that's what I frankly worry about also um for someone who's been on both sides of it s I'm sure you're the same way like I feel like there's there's too many actors that want to just make it sound like them and so they will put it in their own voice no matter what character they're playing and that's to me that's lazy that's not not like a character anymore but like look at the show where you're like that is not Wentworth that is Michael scoffield I mean that is a totally or the one that always um SU amudi is the like when I first met him out you know I hadn't I didn't I didn't know him until I went to the set and I was working with him and you know he was just like on high town on Stars he's like this like drug kingpen and this is all by virtue of his eyebrows I'm pretty sure he is like the most elegant guy right he literally is like the most elegant and it's so interesting to me going back and watching the show at how everyone like everyone's playing a character here it's a credit to the performances on this show that that I don't think anybody's playing themselves around here um and but I don't I guess I've been on shows where you know I've worked with Rob low um Kyle honestly changes his lines I think I that you know Friday night might that was um running at the same time as this you know K Kyle Chandler Chandler kind of famously you know would go off script I don't think this show was like famous for going off script our stories I don't remember our stories being blown up by anything and the stories were pretty intricate well and I remember calling you and again most of this was season two I would call you and go can I cut these five lines if I promise to put it on my face you know and it was it was that conversation and you'd be like yes I have to get this draft through the studio so they need to see the line yeah but if you don't I need to get from you this feeling yeah if it's in your face or if it's not you know because Wentworth changed his lines quite a lot and so I would call you and be like here's here's what I'm planning on doing in response because if I say my lines as written they're now not going to make sense and you know I remember having those conversations with you with sentur with with Zach but even not even what you're saying there is so different than even I think what happens a lot on Seth where actors just show up and change their lines for sure I mean that's much different than writing an email are calling someone and saying hey I'm doing this scene tomorrow or next week can we talk about it is much different than showing up and saying to some guest director that doesn't really have a lot of power no I'm saying it this way well and that's actually that's it's a it's a terrible place to put the director in terrible we can't give that approval yeah and you it really it really bothers me frankly when actors want to change things on the day because I can't think very well in that moment I can like I don't even think the best in a writer's room because I don't know how to explain it but like it comes out of my fingers not out of my mouth sure I don't like if somebody comes to me on the day and they're like I don't want to do this and I don't want to do this and like could you have told me when I had time to like answer this typing and even when it would be you know I worked with R Wilson once who was used to comedy and he's like he's doing a lot of like extemp and he wants not that he wouldn't say his lines because he would say the line but he would want alts because that's how Comedy Works right like they would in drama you're kind of saying you're kind of you're doing what's on the page but in comedy you're doing what's on the page and then you're going through all so he alternate lines is what I mean and so he ask for them and I would literally have to walk off the set and text them to him because I couldn't oh that's so cool so basically I'd be like he'd be like can I have these and I'd be like okay and he'd have to like get his phone and then I would go away from the people be like this one this one this one so that's fascinating that's so interesting that that's the so many people are talkers and not writers that are writers and you're you comes out of your fingers also uh almost on every show that I've ever been on that goes for more than a season somewhere in season one or in season 2 there becomes a rule that is if you have something you need changed or want to talk about 24 or 48 hours after that it's locked you cannot do it on the day it's it takes time onset it screws up guest directors it's just it's just not good process yeah it really I just I I also just don't like that it signals that you haven't internalized this by by the day and and I'm like you're not going I'd like to see all the Nuance here so think about this before I mean everybody's put a lot of time to this I W saying it's easy to be an actor because I think it's horrible like just to be I wouldn't want to um have to shout that much and I wouldn't want to like go through there's like a lot of stuff that you guys have to through um but at the same time but it's still part of the job to have fully digested and be completely prepared for showing up it is not your job to roll up read the sides in the like I learn I learn it in the chair I mean maybe if you want to memorize the lines in a chair for that your process is fine but I haven't thought about this till rehearsal is not good yeah and then to with their actor also it's so self to the whole production flows that's a thing everything down you also see it so much in the last 10 to 15 years as as um feature film people have started working in television that they're moving at a kind of luxurious one to two page future fil pce where they're like let's sit down and talk about this scene for a while and let's shoot and you're like and it's like this is TV dude we do not have 30 days to say like yeah that's you know what's GNA go away after these strikes and all of these mergers not yeah yeah I don't want to name names but I well how do I not yeah anyway you can't do that that's where the feature film Pace doesn't work in television yeah you can't do that and quite frankly uh for most feature films it doesn't work that way either do you know what I mean most feature films you now have 25 days to shoot your movie um if it's not you know a giant film and I think there's something to that too I um am super super super grateful for that answer also again your time so we're going to do a little commercial thingy and then we'll see if we've got time to answer a few fan questions although I think actually many of them we've already covered we'll be right back with Karen Usher to answer some of your questions and then ask her a couple to wrap up all right welcome back everybody thank you for leaving your questions on Instagram are prisonbreak podcast um who do we have here what do you Paul do you have any questions out of this one that you like mjh 4192 asks is there any character you wish you could have changed their story over the over the entire series is there anybody you wish like oh I wish we hadn't dispatched of Kellerman there and maybe we could have um no anything that pops out um honestly nothing like Springs to mind of something that I felt like I'm sure if I went back and rewatched I would think some things didn't necessarily work as well as others but nothing I never felt like there was any colossal mistake um that I that I wasn't happy with um by the way Paul I would not let your dead body be shown that's one thing I thank you because I really felt Not only was I a huge kman fan but I I really felt that there was um that there was uh a used to eventually when the end of the show came they knew that we were going to need Kellerman for that like there wasn't that there was no villain that was going to replace even though you know you like the General in season 4 or whatever that that there was no the real there was there was no bad guy beyond the complexity that we had with K so um when when you got shot in that van I uh I had it out with Paul sharing thank you for that and I you know what's so funny uh just terms of how TV has changed at the time nobody said to me and I didn't even think well they never showed it was like y he's dead with like and 10% of it was like there you know they could bring him back if they wanted to I feel like now when people watch the show like when my nieces watched it like 15 years later ohes they're all like well we didn't see like people are so used to huge kind of pulling the rug out from under your feet Paradigm shifts like that that people are more I think the audience is way more attuned to that kind of trickery is the wrong word but that kind of device like I think it's more of a thing now than it than it was because you invented it well you didn't kill lead characters really on a show I mean Prison Break is crazy if you look at the fact that like hundreds of people died for lin and Burrows who was only innocent because he went to kill the guy and he was already dead so um there was but he was high on weed yes and he had a giant crystal meth de so so for right right um but yeah there there was a lot uh lot of dine going on um here's another one from at the Rover uncore uh which episode was the easiest to write which came to you the fastest and which was the hardest to write I I don't know if that's an answerable question but maybe you had one that just flew from the fingertips and what were you had to bash your head in the wall I'll tell you that because so like my my produc orial rank on the show cuz we kind of go in sequence so like Matt would write one and then I believe maybe Nick like the order that we went in meant that I was a co-producer so I was like the I was third or fourth in line uhhuh so when you C do the math for that I always ended up on the episodes that were if you were drawing out the tent Poes of the show let's say you're drawing out this big thing happens in one this big thing happens in six and this big thing happens in 12 nothing happens in Karen's episode I actually and in a way that was we had some really good episodes that came out of that I mean I think this is one of them I think one called jat or Michael like C so great so like but that came out of the fact that like I want to say that was episode 16 and it was blank on then something something happens Ken connects basically so basically the writing assignment of that is every complication you can think of move forward but you have to land back at zero at the end of the episode really I mean it really I did have a lot of those episodes and we broke them very intensely in detail every single scene in the room every day all day from 10: to 6 like that's what we okay till 5 because I pumpkin really hard at five and I famously called The Pumpkin because I like by for those who don't know the pumpkin is when the Cinderella's Carriage turns back into a pumpkin it it basically means when somebody is uh when you're talking about a kid pumpkin that's child labor laws you got to pull that kid when somebody pumpkins it's all like hey guys I I can no longer serve the the the team I'm to yeah if it didn't happen on this show because actually we were really functional but if ever there was a show that they were like and we're ordering dinner I'm like you're ordering dinner dinner that's not going to work for me um but so all of my episodes were hard frankly I can't remember one the breaking or the writing or both um like breaking of mean coming up with the story in the room or the when you went off to do dialogue action ordering I remember in in season Four Season four was almost the hardest because it was for the Superman basically uhuh season four was essentially you had to be invested in the conspiracy and that was I guess all of season four was probably in a way the hardest we knew it was the last season which was great because a lot of shows don't have that benefit I know that there are some broadcast shows being canceled right now that were going to have the benefit of knowing either way and I think that that sus so at least knew it was over but we were also tying up lens on a really complicated conspiracy and that was hard um there's so many other fan questions I don't know that we have time for them we lose you in minutes yes um so dear fans thank you for the questions hopefully this conversation touched on what you wanted to hear on otherwise we'll just have Karen back I think we'd like to have Karen back well I will be around on zoom and just click you just click click the button and here we are um Zoom um listeners please follow us at Apple podcast or Spotify wherever you get your podcast you can also get our watch party episodes and hear all these episodes add free by subscribing to our show on patreon Karen we have a call in line call us at 4013 P Break prison break that is not Ur in okay 4013 P Break and leave your question question and this week's question is what as we reach the halfway point what is your favorite episode of season one and why um Karen thank you so much so so so so so so much today we have two little questions that we end our uh our guests with the first is if you were on death row what would your last meal be I mean why did I all Pizza yeah great I love I love that you said that like that's a stupid question because it should be everybody's answer can we can we just drill down on that like talk like I'm in a r let's drill down on that for a second uh from where and with from where and with what on it I'm from Ohio so it has to be that like Cracker Crust F yes okay that's my bag so so with that um and the sauce has to be like a tiny bit sweet and then like pepperonis but not like ones like the ones that they call curl the curly guys the Cur amazing and then finally we have a fill-in-the blank question for you which it's not really a question it's just finish this statement please as we leave our audience with the following advice remember folks don't go to prison but if you do go to prison remember to blank read about it before you go that's such a great writer question great that you should research that you should research that you should research not not by watching prison break we won't be help read right amazing we love you you're wonderful thank you so much so much bye everybody bye Karen bye prison breaking with Sarah and Paul is a caliber Studio production your hosts have been friends but not besties Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul alstein our prison Warden has been producer Ben Haber our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul idstein who made the music for this podcast keeping us slim and trim the prison yard has been sound designer and editor the great Jeff Schmidt keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin our prison artist logo and brand designer is John denato and little big Brands check them out at www.big brands.com follow us on Instagram at prisonbreak podcast email us at prison breaking Calibur studio.com and call us at 4013 PB r e a k prison breaking with Sarah and Paul has been Calibur studio production thank you for listening [Music]