The Truth About Charlie Kirk and Israel, and the Final Zoom Call Before He Died transcript

the narrative that's out there is that no no no no Charlie had decided that he was no longer going to support the state of Israel. Uh and in fact he lived in a kind of fear that the state of Israel was going to kill him or that American Jews or Zionists were going to kill him. You not only because of your proximity to Charlie, but because of your area of expertise which Charlie leaned on you for are probably in as good a position as any person alive to help us divide that and understand what was actually happening at the time, what's actually true and what isn't. >> Yeah, I'll tell you what happened in the month prior to and we tell this in the book The War on Reality's chapter 1 Murder on Campus.

Um in August of 25 we were at a pastor's conference in California. You just spoke at one. >> Mhm. >> Um for them. By the way, brilliant speech. You got to look that up that Jeremy did at the pastor's conference TPUSA in Santa Barbara. >> I'm just going to invite you on the show. >> No, was it was it Santa Barbara? It was I wasn't there. I just Yeah, okay, but >> Barbara. >> So we're coming back from that. Charlie asked me to come back to Phoenix with him so we could have another session together.

And he showed me a text from a donor that was upset because he um said something negative about the government of Israel and they didn't think you could do that, right? And uh Charlie said, "Well, what does this mean about blessing Israel?" And I said to him, "Charlie, blessing Israel or blessing anybody doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. Yeah. You don't bless your child by agreeing with everything your child wants to do.

If you bless what your child wants to do by approving of evil, that's It's a blessing. You know, as the proverb says, wounds from a friend are good. Beware of kisses from an enemy. Right? Okay. So, so Charlie said, well, this is worth the trip. You just mentioned in that to me because um I thought, you know, these people are saying I've got to agree with everything Israel does. No, no, you don't. Look, I Israel has a lot of of bad things in their government just like we have bad things in our government.

You know, they agree with abortion, they agree with same-sex marriage, they I don't know where they are in the uh they were they they mandated the vaccine over there, they I don't know where they are on the transgender issue, but they got a lot of problems over there just like we have here. So, Charlie realized that he could critique the government of Israel just like you can critique any government and still be a faithful Christian cuz that's what a faithful person does.

But then, and I'll never forget this. We're getting off the elevator in his building, and he he was so frustrated with people telling him, like one person said, basically, she was going to pull a million dollars from it from it from TPUSA. And and that just made him mad that she's trying to blackmail him. Yeah. And she he she said, I'm not going to He said, I'm not going to change my position. I looked at him. I said, Charlie, that's one of the reasons I love you.

You're not going to compromise what you believe is true for money. He wouldn't. Wouldn't do it. Now, fast forward to the day before he was murdered. We went on that walk the night before. It's September 9th. And he calls a meeting with two people in Israel, Israeli officials of some kind. I can't remember their names, and one person in the United States And it's me, him, Mikey, and Blake Neff. And the Zoom meeting is for Charlie to ask them questions about the Israeli-Hamas situation so he could be better informed to answer questions on a college campus related to that.

So, he's asking them for their insights. Charlie was not giving up on Israel. He was doing homework. He was trying to figure out what the truth was and how could he support Israel if they could give him good data. >> Mhm. >> He could then be armed to deal with these issues because Israel kept coming up. Now, I always I told Charlie and I said, "Charlie, the first question I ask people when they ask a question about Israel, Hamas, or just Israel in general, my first question is always have you read the Hamas Charter?" I've only had one person out of dozen say yes, Jeremy.

One. To the rest I say, "Consider yourself under educated to have an opinion." >> Yeah. >> Because if you haven't read the Hamas Charter, you don't know what's going on. Because the Hamas Charter, and we quote it in the book, you you don't have to get the you just Google Hamas Charter, like 1988 I think is their first charter. Which, of course, is built on the Quran and basically is saying we got to kill all the Jews.

That's basically what it says. This is not going to end until Muslims take up arms and kill the Jews. And all of these conferences about two-state solutions are a vain waste of time. They don't want a two-state solution. One-state solution. No Israel. That's what From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. That just means all the Jews are dead. That's what it means. There's never been a state known as Palestine.

The word comes from Emperor Hadrian in 135 AD who didn't want the Jews coming back to the land after the the revolt they had, and it's it's it's derived from Philistine, which is a word uh about the enemies, the ancient enemies of Israel, as we all know. So, there's never been a state known as Palestine. The Palestinian state was really created by uh Winston Churchill after World War I. It's a place called Jordan. And the people in Jordan don't want the folks from Gaza because many of them are jihadists.

And it was Gary Hamrick, who is a a pastor up there at um at Cornerstone near DC, said, "If you think Israel is responsible for the the problems in Gaza, you don't understand the situation. Hamas is responsible for the problems in Gaza. Hamas took over Gaza in 2005. Israel gave it to them. What have they done with the billions of dollars that poured in there? Made tunnels. Bought weapons. They didn't improve the people, their people.

What they've done is they've created a terrorist state. And they come over the wall in on on October 7th and they commit genocide against babies, they rape women, they rape babies, they they kill children. In that meeting we had with Charlie and the Israeli officials, the Zoom meeting, I said, "What do you think would have happened if a cartel in Mexico had in their charter the annihilation of the United States and they came across the border proportionally down in Texas and they murdered 30,000 Americans and then drove several thousand across the border as hostages?

What would we do as a country? We would obliterate the cartel. We would rescue the hostages and then we'd have a parade several zip codes long about that was the right thing to do. There would be no moral equivalence. They were the aggressors. They're the ones committing genocide. We're going to end it. And yet somehow when it comes to the Jews, everything gets inverted. Oh, the Jews are committing genocide. What evidence do you have for that?

It's in the Hamas documents that they want genocide. Now, does this mean everything the IDF soldiers do and everything? No. I'm sure there are I'm sure that they probably committed some crimes down there. >> yeah, of course. Terrible things happen in war. War War is when you tell a bunch of primarily young men >> Mhm. >> uh that the normal rules that govern human interactions do not apply in this situation. >> Mhm. >> So, of course, when you tell a bunch of young men that the normal rules that govern human interactions no longer do not apply, you are going to use excessive force.

You are going to kill people. You are going to break things. Of course, some actual sin accompanies that. >> Mhm. >> Some actual bad behavior accompanies that. >> Mhm. >> You know, this why every army of the most virtuous armies, and I think the IDF is by and large a virtuous army. I think the American military is by and large a virtuous army. >> The IDF has reduced civilian casualties to a very low level compared to the number of >> And yet, some evil is always going to accompany you into war.

That's just >> Mhm. >> That's War is not good. Like, war is not a thing we should long for. War is sometimes necessary. >> Right. >> Um so, of course, of course, the IDF has committed >> Mhm. >> I shouldn't say the IDF has committed crimes. Of course, >> Individuals. >> individuals within the IDF have committed crimes. Of course, they have. >> Mhm. >> What does that change? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> The IDF does not exist to eradicate uh the Arabs of the Gaza Strip from existing. >> They could have done so if they wanted to already. >> They could have done so if they had wanted to. >> So, the bottom line with Charlie is Charlie was frustrated with some donors that were telling him they need to rubber stamp everything Israel did. >> Yeah. >> And so, he was pushing back on that, but he was not abandoning Israel.

And he was not abandoning his theology for some sort of political expediency. >> Yeah. >> He was a firm That's why we have him at that meeting, the day before he was murdered. Why else would we have I mean, what I mean If he's given up on Israel that he would have canceled that. He'd say, you know, I'm going to go max against you. He wasn't doing that. He was trying to get their insights. By the way, I don't I've just been thinking about this recently.

We hear all the Jews control everything. If they control everything, why are they the most persecuted minority group out there? Right? Oh, they're controlling all this? Really? Then how come social media has turned against other controls? How are they controlling? >> Because because we all see it now. >> Oh, oh, okay. >> Now we all see it. >> Oh, I see. Oh, so it's more confirmation. No matter what the evidence is, the Jews control everything after the most persecuted minority group out there.

There's only 15.5 million Jews in the entire world and somehow they're the root of every problem we have? >> Yeah, as I like to say if 15 million out of 8 billion people with no centralized religious authority >> Mhm. >> in a state the size of >> New Jersey. >> New Jersey that only half of them live in, by the way. >> Mhm. >> If they're actually running the entire world and all of its institutions, then they should >> Mhm. >> like we deserve to be ruled by such a people if such [laughter] a if such a thing is possible.

That is it's like the worst self-own of all time to say the Jews run the world. Uh Who are the who are we? >> Yeah, it's it's crazy. >> Ridiculous. >> But but people believe it. >> Yeah. >> Because they refuse as as uh Second Thessalonians says, they refuse to accept the truth. So, God gives them over. >> So, you can say with authority that that Charlie was not abandoning >> No. >> traditional support for the state of >> No, that's why he was asking me, "What's your view on blessing Israel?

What's your view on" and that's why we had that meeting. And and look and and hopefully this is true of Christians who are watching this. You don't get politics Let me put it another way. You don't get your theology from your politics. You get your politics from your theology. And that's what Charlie was doing. His theology informed his politics, not the other way around.