Elizabeth Spent $2+ Million on a New Boat She May Never See transcript

Elizabeth, are you willing to share with us how much you've spent on your new Kitty Kugan 50 open before the bankruptcy announcement last July? >> Yes, we paid north of $2 million including shipping. And that's be fully paid, completely paid. >> How many payments did you make towards your 2026 Katy Krogan? In total, >> we made eight total payments. And what was your first red flag that tipped you off that something was wrong? >> When we had a payment due in July of and they they asked me for the payment ahead of schedule.

[music] [music] Thank you for watching and listening to the Full Displacement Podcast. My name is Marilyn Bosser and I'm Amanda Haley. Today we'd like to welcome Elizabeth Fortunado to the show. Um Elizabeth, together with your husband Vince, you put a deposit down on your dream boat back in 2024 preparing for your retirement on a beautiful liverboard, a new Katie Krogan 50 Open. And as a matter of fact, you should be on your very boat right now and you should be cruising away from land instead.

Uh your boat's not here. Katie Krogan went bankrupt this summer. They declare bankruptcy and shortly after you realized that you even though you paid fully for the boat, you would not get your boat, at least not right away. And so, uh you've paid north of $2 million. The boat's completed. It's in Taiwan. It's waiting for you at the factory. Uh and now and now we wait. Welcome, Elizabeth. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Glad to be here and talk to you ladies. >> Yeah. And we're so grateful you're here to tell your story. Uh there's a lot to unpack here and we understand there's a lot that you are still trying to find your way through with your husband. So can we start with the facts in the beginning? So how did you go about uh choosing the boat and then what went wrong? Um, so we had a marine trader, Tradewinds. Uh, it was a 42 and we figured out that we loved cruising and uh, we were thinking kind of we wanted to go more adventurous.

We wanted to maybe get out and go to Canada and do part of the loop. We weren't really that ambitious to do the whole loop, but we definitely wanted to do major portions of the loop. And I wanted to get out in the ocean more. Uh, I was, you know, the bay is awesome. It's a great training ground, but I wanted to go bigger and bigger places. So, so we started looking at one of my big requirements was a full displacement.

You know, your podcast, but one of my big requirements was full displacement uh for, you know, a trerler. And we like trwlers. My husband, I didn't care about going fast at all. And, you know, I know a lot of people go back and forth on semi-displacement, full displacement, especially in the trwler world, about whether or not they want to go fast and escape a storm or whether or not they want to just be able to ride it out.

Well, I'm a full displacement kind of gal. So, um I don't care about going fast either. So, that we started looking at the different yachts in the market that time. And one of the things that really drove us to the Katy Krogan was they had we looked at the Summit originally, which is a semi- displacement. And uh that was what we love the look of the Summit. We love that open feel. We just thought it was so smooth and just really, you know, modern looking.

A lot of the trers were kind of like my my husband was like, "That's like a grandma and grandpa vessel. We're too young to have that." So, [laughter] so, um, and it didn't bother me, but I did like the open feeling because I'm doing majority, you know, I have my 50 ton captains in, so I'm doing the majority of the driving and the majority of the navigation. So, for me being at the helm, what I noticed is when I'm up at the helm, a lot of people, you know, when we have people or guests on the boat, they're all behind, they're all kind of another place or they're socialized in the back of the boat, you know, in the cockpit kind of area, and I'm up there all by myself.

Maybe every once in a while somebody will pop up there and be like, "Hey, how's it going?" I'm like, it's fine. >> So, I like the idea of having an open boat. So, a lot of the trers we looked at did not have that. Well, Krogan, Katie Krogan had a version was called the 50 Open. And we didn't know much about the 50 Open, but we went around and saw a couple of there's only at that point there were only five hulls in existence.

And we looked at some some of the halls that were out there. And I knew Katie Krogan from other, you know, other trwler owners. We sat next to them in marinas. And I always kind of eyed them up and I was like, "Oo, that looks like a really good vessel, like really solidly made. It just looks so substantial to me." So, I want I really like the Katie Krogan um their their history, their the fact that they'd been around for so long and they built such a solid boat.

Like, you saw stuff from the very beginning that people would talk about early on halls that were still around and they still looked great. You know, I looked I went on stuff that was 20 years old and it still looked like an amazing vessel. So, we ended up looking at the 50 open and because the 50 open only had five holes, there was nothing on the used market. So, we really debated. We weren't we weren't feeling like new boat people at all.

Believe me, it's a big investment. Huge investment. So, we're not feeling like new boat people, but because we really like that style boat and we figured, well, with a new boat build, you've got a couple years to kind of sort out the finances and, you know, make it make it something that you could maybe achieve. And so, we looked at all of those factors and we ended up seeing some of the vessels. We ended up going to Katie Krogan event in Stewart, meeting the owner, meeting Tucker and meeting some of the other owners and felt like we connected with that owner group because it's a really tight owner group on the other side of the build.

When you have your vessel, it's a really tight owner group and they're really collaborative and they're helpful to one another and we like the people we met. So, we felt like that was something we could connect with as well. They were pretty down to earth people. And so we ended up going into contract uh because of that research we did and because of the reputation of Katie Krogan at the time. We really felt comfortable going into a contract with them.

We felt like they're really reputable builder. Now come to find out they're not the actual builder. But anyway, that's that's part of what we're going to talk about. But uh we fel we thought that they were very reputable, had been around for 49 years, I think it was until July 6th. And we felt comfortable with moving forward with them. And you know, other people had stepped before and done this before us. There's there's hundreds of of these boats out there.

So, I knew hundreds of people had done this and uh people that were business owners, people that were wise wiser than me had all done this. So, I felt like, okay, well, if they've all done this and made this decision, I felt comfortable that I could, you know, follow in their footsteps and make the same kind of decision and it would be okay at the end. >> So, where did you start seeing red flags? At what point along the process did some of these things say, "hm, that might not be great." >> Yeah.

So, about a year into the build, you know, you do your deposit and then about a year later or so for us it was a little bit later, we had we understood that they were um they gave us a, you know, a time frame in the contract and after that we were about I think March was our next payment. So 2024 we made a payment in March and then 2025 I guess it was we had to make another payment a year later is where they really start picking up the progress on it and and doing things with the boat.

And at that time they said we might you know they might have us a due date change and so that was pretty normal you know we thought oh okay a year out from now. Um and then the next they said oh because this due date change you don't have your payment isn't due on the original contract date. They gave us an um revised contract and then in somewhere in that summer, I'd say it's July or something like that, June or July, I get an email that says, "We need your pay.

Can you get your payment to us? We need it like in in a week." And I was like, "What? It's not due till middle of July, you know." Okay. And I'm trying to get all this financing together because it was another substantial payment. So, I'm working on the financing. I'm doing all the things in the back end. I was trying to get things together for that. So I was like, "Well, early, you know, we got to move funds around everything that that's not going to be possible." And so they started giving me some pressure then to get that payment early.

And I was like, "That I I don't know. It just seems weird." Like I've never had an early payment due, especially I've I've built custom cabins before. We have a cabin business, too. So any type of construction >> that I've been used in the past is always a conversation. Is always somebody who calls you and says, you know, "Hey, this is what's going on." >> It's never like early payment, you know? or it's build, you know, we get ahead of schedule and now we're need, you know, there was nothing like that. >> Yeah.

So, we had a unfortunate situation. Um, we um didn't have a loan for the boat. We actually were funding it ourselves. So, >> financed at all. This was all cash. >> No, this was an all cash deal. And so, we had to do other things to make that happen. So, one of the things I was doing did not work. And when that when I couldn't do an earlier payment, they um they came back with they they kind of gave me a little bit of pressure and I was like that's that it didn't feel good.

It felt it felt uncomfortable. So I ended up we ended up being in that and that payment we ended up doing it and two in like a couple different chunks. I said look good faith because I knew that good faith is always like in contract terms that's always going to buy you something. So I did good faith half and I did half like 6 days later or 6 days after the due date but I I made the full payment and at that time it was just not comfortable.

So that that's when my first you know it wasn't like oh hey we got you Elizabeth you know we're good I appreciate that good faith. It wasn't any of that kind of stuff. It wasn't like the support was there on their side. I felt very unsupported and I started feeling uncomfortable and that was in July of last year. And then in October in the boat show, um Tucker, we were talking about commissioning everything because we're supposed to go through a commit.

We're supposed to have the boat delivered originally in March 2026. And so when we went to the boat show that year to just go on other boats to look at finishings and all those other decisions that we're making along the way, Tucker mentioned to me or my husband and I, we were sitting there and I remember on the a fly bridge of a 58, beautiful 58. I'm friends with them. gorgeous boat. They were sitting on the fly bridge and Tucker told us he happened and mentioned that they didn't have any orders past 2027 in the pipeline.

And that's when I was like, you know, I was like, "Oh, red flags big time were happening then." I was like, I told my husband like, "That's not good. That is not good." Uh, I said, "I don't know what that means for us, but that's not good." I didn't know, you know, obviously they're a privately held company. Privately held companies are not required to do any financial statements. they're not required to, you know, buy um any FDC or any rules to, you know, publish whatever their accounting is.

So, I didn't have an insight into any of the accounting or what was happening then. But I do know that that was a red flag for me because I knew the 2-year bill cycle and I knew that that would be financial strain on them. So, I was concerned at that point in October. And then we rolled into December, another payment was due. And again, they asked me for they didn't talk to me about anything in status or anything. and they asked me for again for the money before it was due.

And in December, we made the payment. Um I think we had another payment somewhere along the way, but we made another payment in December and they said it was due um they they gave me another deadline that was due ahead of time and I was like that's not cool. So I said to um the CFO at that time when I said I'll see what I can do to move the funds around and I said let me let me figure this out. And he's like, "We'd appreciate anything you could do." I was like, "That's a weird comment." It was just I was like, "What is happening?" And so then when I made the payment and he was like, "Oh, thank you so much.

I really, really, really appreciate it." I was like, "Again, weird." Like that's not what you say when somebody, you know, is just doing the regular contract payment build contract to your deadline, right? >> I was like, "Why are you so appreciative about the money?" You know, it's like, "Wow, that that doesn't feel right." because like I said, I've worked with custom builds before and and the home constructions, so I understood how that process worked and it wasn't like that at all.

And it was just very different. And so then we roll into the spring and delivery date was changing. It was kind of it was supposed to be at one point and then it moved again and I was like, well, you know, what is the delivery date? I tried to really pressure them for a delivery date because I knew I had another contract payment for before final delivery. And they went back and forth on that and they finally [clears throat] said, "Well, it's going to be in May, so you're you absolutely have to make this final payment at this point in May." And that's when a lot of the the real pressure came on because at that point, I had engaged counsel.

I didn't trust what was happening. I didn't know all my red flags were up. I was really uncomfortable and I wanted to do a hold back. Unfortunately, my contract wouldn't allow me to do a hold back, but I really didn't trust what was happening. And just my gut was just telling me all these things were just not right. And I engaged council. He was already engaged for we were going to offshore the boat. But the one thing I didn't mention so far was tariffs. >> Mhm. >> So, I'm going to back up before I talk about that final pressure.

So when the tariffs hit, I remember we had a conversation in I think early part of the year before the tariffs before what they call something day. April 1st, I forgot what the administration called that like not resurrection day. I don't [laughter] what it was called. Um but it was called something they had a name for the day that tariffs are going to hit. So we were looking at the charts and we were seeing outrageous things like Taiwan was going to be 40%.

And so I remember like pausing the TV and zooming in on it and we had a call with Katie Krogan at that time with Tucker. And I said I said, "Are you concerned about the tariffs? Like what are you guys doing for that? What are we what are we talking about?" And this was before final payment before any of it but you're talking about delivery. He's like, "Oh, no. I don't think it's going to be a big deal. You know, 60% of the boats built.

You know, we we do these shipments and we account for all this." And I said, "I are you not watching the same news channel I'm watching because I'm seeing this tariff stuff all over the place." And I'm very concerned about this. He's like, "Oh, no big deal." And then I remember it was like the next day or two the tariffs hit to me having absolutely no plan in place from the owner of the company and having just a naive and a flip of the hand kind of thing of no big deal of the tariffs.

I was shocked being a business person, being a business owner, being very financially, you know, prudent in a lot of things. I was shocked at his the way he reacted. And I remember telling my husband, I was like, "This I this is bad. This is really bad." Then the tariffs hit. I was like and and he's like, "Oh, I guess I was a little wrong on that." I'm like, "You think you think you're wrong?" >> Well, let's backpedal a little bit cuz some of the listeners may not understand the impact that tariffs would have on on a vessel.

Tariffs may affect someone who's buying a boat built outside of the US. to give a little bit of understanding when a vessel enters US waters that's the time that duties would need to be paid and at the time that you were talking about this it was during the uncertainty of what every country had a different tariff now we know that tariffs for u European built boats are at 10% plus the normal 1.5% that's what they are now but back at this time like you said it could have been 35% even 40% duty owed when someone like you who bought a foreignbuilt vessel brought that boat back into US waters.

You were at the mercy of what was decided at that time. And I could see how it that one factor of oh my gosh this boat now may cost me 40% more than what I had planned for when I signed on the dotted line would have been a huge huge deal for you. So that's a little bit of the backstory on your concern over tariff pricing. >> Yeah, absolutely. And and the fact that as a builder, all the boats were born and built. I I was astounded that they didn't have a forward plan and thought about this or they hadn't got together as a team and said, "This is what our plan is and reach out to the people that had their boats in the pipeline." Cuz to me, that's a responsible business owner.

You should be reaching out to us. You should be telling us what your plan is. You should be communicating that and saying, "Look, we know this is going to be tough. we've got some lawyers lined up, we've had the conversations, whatever is going to happen, that is how I would handle my business and my customers. And so I always try to put myself in, you know, kind of that perspective is that when I get customer service, I I compare it to what how I would handle it as a business.

And I felt very let down at that point. I felt very exposed, financially exposure. Uh I felt very exposed and I felt like I didn't know the plan forward. So, we were going to we were looking at we were talking about foreign uh flagging the boat before, but now I was really seriously talking about foreign flagging the boat. So, I'd already engaged with the lawyer. We hadn't really signed a contract yet. But then because of all of this, I felt so uncomfortable with the way Kroger was handling the business end of this.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the boat, but the business end of this is what I'm talking about. is that I felt so uncomfortable that I asked my uh attorney that I had gotten engaged for the foreign flagging to say, "Can you help me negotiate a hold back? I don't trust this. I don't want, you know, I'm very very uncomfortable." And he understood why I, you know, he he got it. So, uh, unfortunately for me, I wasn't able to do a hold back for the final payment.

So, we moved that forward. The final payment they said was due at a certain date because of their ship date was supposed to be May something and May 16th I think was the original ship date at that point and no other contract amendments had happened. So we were supposed to have it in I think it was April or March anyway. No other contract amendments had happened. They said May 16th or something like that. Well made the final payment 45 days ahead of time because that's what they require and uh then the boat didn't ship in May.

So I said, "What's happening? What where is where is it?" You know, I paid this money. I paid the 45 days. When is it going to ship? I kept bugging them and asking them and bugging them and they're like, "Oh." And I get no answer. I get ghosting, no answer. >> And at that point, Elizabeth, >> fully paid for, >> you had also paid for the shipping to get that boat from Taiwan to the US. >> Yes. Yeah. So, not only had you paid the full contracted amount, you had also paid the shipper at this point that your boat was going to be delivered. >> Can can you explain for us um our audience obviously may not know about bankruptcy proceedings and um why you and Vince may likely be the biggest casualty of this Katie Krogan bankruptcy? >> Yeah, it's a different situation for us because we have a completed vessel.

So, we're not in progress. When we also, you know, it's interesting because there's always these theories, use somebody else's money when there's a lot of risk and that means a loan. So, my husband is very old school. He likes to, you know, hard work, effort, you know, you you don't buy if you can't afford it kind of thing. And he's very old school. We have old cars. We have, you know, everything fully paid for. Um, but we knew this was going to be our retirement.

So we're kind of leaning into the forward part of this. So we didn't take out a loan for this and which gives us a lot of exposure financially because if you're doing something in a foreign country and you're doing something where the loan protects you in a way because and I'll get to the completed part and the bankruptcy part, but getting a loan protects you in such a way that they require uh progress payments and the loan doesn't pay out unless this progress pay unless this progress has occurred. the loan.

If you get a loan for your boat, a big boat like this, the loan will pay out in stages. So, you wouldn't be as financially exposed. We because of those payments that we are making were the we had to take that financial exposure ourselves instead of a bank taking the financial exposure. So, in this respect, I wish we had done the loan. Uh the problem too with the loan, we tried to get a loan before tariffs and we actually had a loan secured and we were in the final steps of getting the loan and then when the tariffs hit the loan uh they no longer would do foreign uh construction.

So all the vendors, all the loan people were like, "Nope, we're no longer going to fund foreign construction." So I couldn't do a boat loan. I couldn't do that type of loan. So we were really in a position where we couldn't even get that support. we couldn't get, you know, that we were facing tariffs and everything. So with a fully completed B vessel, that vessel is a pure asset. So it is an absolute asset of the builder.

So partially built, they've got nothing. They've got a half-built boat similar to something in a in a shell. You know, the hole isn't released from the from the mold. So you need to have the top of the boat and the bottom of the boat attached. You need to have the electronics in. So all of the boats behind us were partially built. We were fully completed at that time. And with the bankruptcy, I understand Asia Harbor is they're being prudent in their business practices, too.

So for them, keeping and holding back the completed vessel was the biggest asset that they could hold from Katie Krogan. They didn't know that Katie program was going to declare bankruptcy either, but they were like, "No, we're not going to ship this asset because it's completed and it's something I can hold on to that has um definite value attributed to it." So, um that's why we're in a very difficult position because we're not in those halfbaked boats. >> We're in the completed the fully completed vessel situation where it's a different wrangling match.

It's a different situation than the other people. Now we all all of us are victims. Every one of us are victims of the bankruptcy. Asia Harbor included of all the people that are behind us in the line and us as completed vessel. So all of us are the victims of this. It's just a matter of positioning in the victimhood. [laughter] That's just so um incredible to hear that that's even possible. when I've um explained what you've gone through around me, people are just completely dumbfounded.

They can't believe it. So, I'm I'm sure you must have found this news completely devastating. Here you are pouring your entire retirement into this boat. You're not obviously cruising away during your retirement at this moment. It sounds like, and you share with us, you um you're back at work and it's great. You love your your career, but that is not what the plan was. and and now you have to deal with a mental toll on top of that of dealing with this bankruptcy, finding legal avenues hopefully to recover your bow from the other end of the world because that is what you're I think are going to be attempting to do.

We'll talk about that next. What was that like? How does it feel now and how did it feel then? That's just mindboggling to me. >> Um so I I've been comparing this um the bankruptcy to like a really bad divorce. >> [laughter] >> So, it's like you have this life partner that you're married to and then you wake up one day and you find out that they're not the person that you thought they were and your whole life drops out from underneath of you and it was such a gut punch.

Um, I still have problems talking about it because it was so devastating. >> Yeah, >> it's and and yeah, I I I don't even have the words. I can feel it and I I basically we're here also to give you support in whatever way that we can but also help others not have to deal with what you're going through and hopefully of course want to find that resolution. But um I know it must be super hard. So, thank you for for sharing your story, first of all.

Um and uh and we know you consulted with your lawyer that you know what you're sharing today is not something that's completely confidential, but it's it's still very personal and uh and you have a journey ahead and this is giving you a voice to be able to state your case moving forward in the negotiations with the shipyard with whoever is the controlling person of hopefully the conclusion of you getting the asset that you've fully paid for along with the shipping. um and you know making it the best resolution possible in a very bad situation.

Um we're we're here for you to to get this voice out and we understand the the stages of grief that you must have gone through. Uh and we're here to help. We're here to help bring resolution to this >> and I appreciate that. And and like I was saying with a with a really I was going to say too before I before I got emotions took over, but um like a really bad divorce, you don't know who to trust. And and that's the harder part going forward right now um is who to trust.

And you know, it's sort of like you the sharks are in the water [laughter] um with bankruptcy and you know, my husband and I are we're we're back to back right now. We're locked and loaded and back to back. My husband and I, I mean, you know, he's an army guy, so we are locked and loaded back to back on this. But we don't know which shark is just sniffing around and is curious or which one wants to bite your leg off.

And it's really tough because you're trying to navigate all of the mechanics of bankruptcy, which is complicated itself. Even the language of it is just complicated. And I came out of the US federal court, so I knew a little bit about bankruptcy and their proceedings and filing. So I understood u the the the way it worked meaning the process of bankruptcy and the the court process but I did not fully you know still the language I'm not a lawyer is complicated and the timelines are complicated and knowing uh what comes out of it and there's you know there's all these different players with all these different you know names like a trustee and you know that can the estate and all of these things that you have to kind of figure out and who's actually, you know, a claimant who has possessory leans, who is, you know, my husband's like asked me like three or four times, are we a claimant?

I'm like, I don't really know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know those words. >> Yeah. >> So, so you're just trying to navigate even even though we do have lawyers, it's still, you know, it's lawyer talk. So, and then knowing if people step forward and they're trying to help, it's it's really trying to understand if they really truly want to help or they have their own vested interest. What's the motivation behind stepping up and trying to help? >> Right.

Right. And so, you know, you're kind of a little guarded and even though, you know, we walked into it is very trusting people and very trusting that Katie Krogan would deliver us this yacht, a very high quality, and that's thanks to the shipyard that it's a high quality. Asia Harbor has been around for as many years as as Katie Krogan, and they are very high quality boat builder. They're they're excellent. the the yachts are spectacular, but you go into that with a level of trust and then you come through this and your trust just dissolves to the point, like I said, like a like a like a divorce.

You're like, I don't know whose team are they on? Are they on my friend's team? Are they on my team? Are they on my ex's team? Like, who, you know, where are we where are we sitting here? >> And that's the best way I can explain to people who have been through it >> is about the worst moments. [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. What are you trying to do now? like what are your next steps for it? >> So our next steps are to try to come to some terms with Asia Harbor and um before that we have to get things you know through the bankruptcy.

Uh the bankruptcy court recently they said that the contracts that were held by the partially completed and completed vessels don't have consequential value to the benefit of the bankruptcy estate. and they're going to turn back over those contracts to Katie Krogan Yachts. So, what that means for us is that we can then go to Katie Krogan Yachts attorney, which is who we were dealing with originally, to get those assignments to us.

And then from there, we can hopefully negotiate or the hope is we can negotiate some kind of way to get our yacht through Asia Harbor uh yacht builders. we can negotiate with them or third party or lawyers or however that ends up being. I I don't I'm not clear right now how that's going to work, but we can work with them um to get the yacht released. And then um then we'll have to go through the whole entire process of what that's going to cost us cuz that's not going to be free.

What it's going to cost us to ship it, ship the yacht, what it's going to cost to do commissioning because that also was included in the price. So all of those things we're looking at as additional costs to what we've already paid for a fully completed vessel. But you know at this point do you lose everything or do you lose a little not a little more but more to get you know the boat and then hopefully enjoy it for the next however many years we have and then you know we can give it to the next person to to care for it because these boats last for a really long time.

So >> and another aspect too of the bankruptcy proceeding and how complicated is how long it can take right so uh one concern of course is that as the boat sits there it degrades in value um and it is not something that you want to see but it could happen there's other risks in play for instance the situation with uh China or typhoon season could bring some some surprises um what hope do you have today on that timeline or what have you been told?

I haven't been given a timeline so it's it's really unclear and and um that's the really hard part about all this is just the waiting and the uncertainty for what you think you know the next 15 years of your life it's all of a sudden not certain and while it's not certain in a in a way that we are going to retire um you know I think the timeline is has extended like you mentioned going back to work and while I'm waiting and figuring all this out I you know I like working so why not right?

Why not continue? Because we're not going to be on a boat anytime soon. So, I I'm hopeful that maybe in 2027 we'll be able to to have the boat um make it here in September already. So, and going into October. So, I just can't imagine that we'll be able to negotiate all this and get it shipped and delivered to Florida for or wherever for commissioning and um before then. I I don't foresee that. I mean it could happen but I I just don't foresee that.

So [sighs] >> hopeful in 2027. >> Marilyn had mentioned before you know the risks of not knowing and not having control. She had mentioned typhoon season. Do you even know if the vessel is insured at this point? >> What I've been told I did inquire about that beforehand and um there is a a company right now I don't know if everyone knows them called um Krogan Express. They are not a part of Katie Krogan whatsoever. They're smaller builder, but they use the same shipyard.

So, they've been helping some of the other owners and me get some answers for right now. And uh what they communicated back to me is that the boat is actually now moved into the um the shipping facility. It's not out in the open waiting to get on a boat. So, it's protected that way. So, that's great. And um it's fully insured or or whatever through Asia Harbor because I guess it's part of you know it's considered their asset right now.

It's not considered anybody else's asset because that that never got transferred over to Katy Ken Yachts >> because it never got shipped. So as part of what they cover for but you know I don't know I mean I'm sure it's covered in some way shape or form but I am not familiar with foreign insurance and how foreign countries insure things. You know I'm only I'm familiar with US. So what that coverage means there I don't know but the other thing I want to mention too is that part of the bill process is the electronics and when you talk about the aging of things that's something I do want to mention because I think that could affect other people too is that we had to pay for the electronics package outside of our regular build package that went through a different vendor and we had to do that and then those get all shipped over packaged up and shipped over and basically not installed But um they get so they can do the the cabinetry for the helm and they can do all the wiring.

So they basically put them there, they screw them in, but they don't really install. And for me, from an IT perspective, when I hear the word install, I mean something totally different from what they mean by install. They mean by install is they mount the screens. They they don't really even plug things in, but all the package is there and they mount things, secure them for it to ship back over and then when it gets here.

So, we've actually paid for all the electronics outside of that. So, >> that's what you mean by the commissioning when you say now that's the actual hooking up of these mounted electronics and then making sure that they all speak to each other, that they work appropriately, that they have the right chips inside of them, those types of things, right? So yeah, that that's something that most people may not understand is part of the commissioning process, >> right?

And and electronics, like I said, my husband and I it background. So it when computers just sit there for a long time, what happens is is you get dust build up. You get a lot of things um they degrade in value. So you know, and it there also their chips inside of it. There are the components inside of it that also, you know, you're not sure about. So, I don't I don't know how this all going to work. Um, also the engines were also they're they're John Deere engines and they were built in the United States and shipped over there.

So, these are things that, you know, these are things that have, you know, it's like buying a car that you got um off the satin a lot for a year and then you buy it, you're like, well, is it going to run? You know, is what's going to happen with this or, you know, do we have to get John Deere involved? I mean the same kind of question as any piece of equipment that that sits is is not just because it's a boat. It's just it's any piece of equipment that sits for a set period of time that has electronics like a car and has an engine like a car just sitting there is not necessarily great for the components.

Engines don't love to sit. >> Yeah. And the other part the the whole warranty that is built into the price of the boat is now completely gone. There is going to be no warranty support which is another count of warm altogether. Yes, >> that's just hopefully it's not an if. Hopefully it's when we do get the boat. There's a lot to figure out when we get the boat. Um I've the good the only kind of silver lining is my husband and I did a lot of work on our old vessel and we did a lot of things.

He upgraded the whole I mean he's really really good. He upgraded the whole entire um electronics on the boat. He ran new cabling. He ran you know everything. He upgraded to Nina 2000 on our old vessel and that's a huge >> So he did the wiring. He did everything. He's a not he's electrical engineer and physics guy, you know, so he he can pretty much do anything that comes to that. Um he also loves working on the engines.

So he got really into diesel engines. In fact, I just sent him a picture yesterday of um of a Detroit diesel. I was like, isn't this sexy? [laughter] He loves >> He loves the diesel engines. >> Love this language talking. >> Right. Right. Um so he's really excited about the John Deers and getting to know the John Deers. So, um I I feel like it for him it's like a big tinker project. He's like, "Oh, let me get my hands on this." Um so, there's but but there's only, you know, so much that literally with time and stuff you that we have available, we we'll be able to do.

So, we have to just figure that all out and what we can do ourselves and what we can we need to bring somebody else in for. But the good news is I did reach out to electronics person and they said that for the electronics we could deal directly with that company and um they still have all the information of what they shipped to Taiwan. So that that is a good that was a little bit of a good news on that piece of it. John Deere we haven't reached out to yet, but we're considering reaching out to John Deere to see if we can get some uh serial numbers on those engines that were shipped if they can even give them to us so we can get information there. >> So you never went and visited the factory then?

You were never uh you never went over there and saw the stages of anything with your own eyes. >> No. Um I thought about it and I don't know that it would have um changed. >> Yeah. >> But we did get pictures along the way. Of course, you know, we got videos and pictures along the way. So, we're able to see things and how they're progressing. And Krogan was going over there on a regular basis to to inspect things in the build process.

And one of the things um that we were thinking of, you know, is is it, you know, we were kind of like playing with the ideas, well, could we possibly if we needed to go to Taiwan and then take the take possession of the vessel there and then bring it back. But because commissioning is such a big deal for these vessels, some like people really think that these vessels come and just plop in the water and you turn the key like a car and you need to drive off the lot.

It's not like that, >> right? So I think it makes a lot of steps >> to commissioning a vessel when it's built in a foreign port and and then brought over on a ship. There is a whole commissioning structure that goes into place from the dealer to you know from the manufacturer to the dealer and what they have negotiated with the dealer who then ultimately hands the boat over to the buyer such as yourself. >> Yeah. And we would um love to get any support and feedback and recommendations and maybe if even another you know maybe another builder you know wants to pop in there and be the be the hero for the day and help us with commissioning you know I mean Selene has John Deere engine so just saying [laughter] I hope they're watching should we link to them Marilyn on this in this episode so I wanted to also I think make the point to be very clear Asia Harbor is the manufacturer and that's a completely different entity from Katie Kogan.

So Katy Kogan is the entity that's declaring bankruptcy. Um Asia Harbor is a very reputable builder. They want to keep going. They want to keep on building yachts. I mean hopefully I think what is a positive sign in all this is they want to hang on to their reputation and and holding an asset like this in what is becoming even more public. Obviously, your article uh in Trade Only, you were featured as one of the customers that really took a big blow from this bankruptcy.

Uh they don't want to be holding an asset that's been fully paid for. They I'm hoping that they will find a resolution with with you and be willing to have a discussion on on releasing that boat. It it would set a really good precedent for future buyers that uh want to do business with Asia Harbor. But uh what is your relationship with a yard now? Are you speaking directly with Asia Harbor? No, we've been told um you know through that third party that they don't really want to talk to anybody but the third party and we we haven't you know that was a little bit of a misquote in the article.

I haven't spoken to them and when I was talking about being bullied, it was really about by Katie Krogan, not not AJ Arbor. I haven't spoken to them at all. And I do have, you know, a lot great deal of empathy for what they're going through. Just being another being a business owner myself, I have a great deal of empathy for what they're going through. And they're a family run business. So, I'm sure that they're feeling the impacts of all this as well.

And we would we would happily speak with them and work with them. I I I don't know, you know, how they operate and what their their cadence is or anything or if that was something they're open to, but if they were open to working with us directly, we would love to talk to them. Um I think that that's something we've just been told that that wasn't an option and we're just not sure if that's, you know, not that we don't believe what we're hearing, it's just that we would certainly love to talk to them if we could, if that was even possible.

And so going back to your call for help, Elizabeth, of course, we'd love to see if uh perhaps a dealer or a manufacturer wants to step in and be a hero. But uh all jokes aside, and actually who knows what might happen, please connect with us and we can put you in touch with Elizabeth. What we'd love to know is as you're watching this, if you or someone that you know went through a similar hardship and may have advice for Elizabeth on how to help her and her husband Vince uh move forward in this, please connect with us.

We would love for you to give your support to Elizabeth and perhaps there's something that she could do that she hasn't thought of. Uh though you are well surrounded and you have legal counsel, but uh there might be other other things that are out there for you to contemplate. we just we just don't know the the answer for for that. So, please if you can think of something, connect with us and we will put you in touch with Elizabeth. >> Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I'd love to to hear other people's experience if they've gone through something similar because um you know we have other Ken owners and we actually are in communication with some of the other people who are impacted by this whole bankruptcy who are also getting boats built and they've been great support and it's been so helpful to talk to them and to understand from what they're hearing or their perspective or someone who's even gone through it before about you know the whole process of bringing the boat in and what they did with the warranty piece of it and how they how they how they went through it.

Um because the the hope is at the end of all this is that the the Krogan boats themselves are still fant. It has nothing to do with the quality of the boat, has nothing to do with anything. It just has to do with a really poorly managed company, which is a shame of it because that that piece of it is is really what the name is. And so the name need would be great to recover because all every owner is impacted with this, not just people who are uh anybody who's going to resell a Kroger or anything cuz people don't always understand there's a division there.

It's like I mean I don't know thing about a brand any brand that produces their product or has somebody else build their product. It's just I always think of Nike like Nike never built a shoe in its life. Mikey Nike was a good advertiser and so they built the shoes offshore and they they were never so you know when you when you understand that that they're not actually Katie Krogan itself the holding company is Nike.

They didn't build a boat and they didn't run a business very well at all. They're the ones that messed it up, not Asia Harbor. Asia Harbor builds beautiful boats and that's true in the Krogan Express as well because they build the Krogan Express as well and you know you look at you walk through these some of these boats if you've never been on one of them in a boat show you walk through them and they're exquisite. The craftsmanship is exquisite on these boats.

So um we all of us I think are vested in the in Katie Cordon brand you know itself having some kind of recovery cuz no one wants to see their boat decrease in value just because somebody can't manage a company and that's what happened is that there was very poorly managed and I'm not going to say any words that I say in private to my husband about [laughter] about the company but it was not very wellrun you know very yeah at all And that's public.

If you want to [clears throat] look through the bankruptcy filings and see see it, we can figure it out. I don't have to spell it out. >> It's public record. Uh public record wants to to sort into that. But another thing I want to speak to along with the call out and the shout out to all the people that are watching for help for you in this situation is the social media aspect of it and the haters. And I understand it's hard for some people to be able to relate that you put down $2 million of your hard-earned cash and they look at you and they say, "Oh, poor little girl." You know, and to me that speaks to someone who um is jealous possibly when there's haters in that fact.

But the fact that you tell me you guys are old school and you were able to take from your own savings to be able to provide for your dreams, it shouldn't be something that you are now punished for. And I was shocked to hear about these haters. Do you mind sharing um what you told me about that um in this part? Well, I you know there there's a lot I wouldn't say there's a lot, but there's been some comments out there and I think you see this on any in any social media like I just watched I just read some comments this morning and there was ter I don't know why my feed is all yacht accidents.

It's really terrible. It's otter and yacht accidents but and I like the otter a lot better but the yacht accident was this big yacht um in Mexico hitting the rocks and getting completely torn apart. Um, and some of the comments that I read through were about, well, you know, rich people don't know how to drive a boat or, you know, this they deserve it kind of thing. And I don't know, it's just that those are the kind of comments we've gotten.

And it's really hard for someone to understand, I guess, how devastating it is when you've worked your whole life. And my husband and I didn't come up from we didn't come up from a background that you know that afforded us like just you know we we weren't yach club people you know we didn't come up through that and we come up came up through hard you know sort of oldfashioned way and hard work and you work really really hard to build this and then you know you build towards your retirement and you build towards your dreams and we've saved and worked really hard and I think if it's a house or some other type of some other thing Like it's imagine building your dream house on a shore on your shore and you did your down payment and a hurricane took it out and you know through no active things that you've done a hurricane took it out and can imagine if you didn't have insurance on it.

It was just gone. You went there and you looked at an empty plot of land and it's gone. I mean, those victims get a lot of support and those victims get, you know, they're just as much as victims as we are. But it's more it's more tangible. People understand that better cuz it's a home. And this was our retirement home. I mean, a lot of people sell their whole entire home and they go and live on these vessels and that's what they do.

I mean, I have friends that sold their house. They were living in an apartment. They're getting a HH build in um the Philippines and they're over there now. They sold everything to do it. And this is what people do when they buy these boats. They they give up. We call it the dirt. You you know I don't have any dirt. I don't own any dirt is what we say in that world. And that's very common. And um that's what you do. And keep it.

You just picture it like like I said like a home that you built that unfortunately you know you don't have insurance on it and it's gone. The prospect of it's gone and you can't rebuild it. If this doesn't happen for us, we will never have another boat. We might get a pontoon one day, but we will never have this dream. It's gone. >> Have you Have you seen the cost of pontoons these days? >> Right. I know. They're not cheap.

[laughter] I know. We were just on Portage Lake. Um I Yeah. And there are all these pontoons there and they are like pretty, you know, >> the fastest growing segment of today are pontoons. Yeah, we want to, you know, focus this not on on I'm trying to make light of a really tough situation there in saying that, but we really want to be here and support you. Um, obviously working towards your dream and resolving this.

So, what are some of the things that you're you're looking into next while you wait? >> Um, yeah. So, I'm always a kind of like I'm a person always tries to pivot. Um, you know, kind of don't throw out the baby at the bathwater kind of person. And so, I'm looking at uh really once we get the the when hope I still have a hopeful cuz I'm still >> just use the when language >> when when we get the vote. Um, we're actually looking at possibly doing a charter program with it.

I have my 510 captains like I mentioned before. So I have my license and we're looking at maybe putting in a charter and when I can't and my husband and I can't charter, we would have we'd hire charter captains to do it and I think that provides us some options to help us with the recovery of some of this what's happened, but also um and and you know because I'm going to be we're going to be working a little bit longer than we anticipated.

So working a little bit longer and help with some of the recovery of the cost. Now, obviously charter programs, you're not you're not in it. You know, a lot of charter programs, you're not making tons of money. You really aren't. You're just trying to do some offsets. It's like renting your house with, you know, an Airbnb. Like, you're just trying to offset that garage space you had you turned into a room that maybe can offset your mortgage a little bit.

So, that's really what you're trying to do with charter program. And I you guys have talked a lot about that on your podcast in the previous episode. So, you can refer people to those episodes if they want to know more about it. But I am looking at at that um at that kind of thing and um going back to work, you know, for a few more years uh just to try to recover some cuz like I said, we're not out of this yet. And even though we've already spent a lot of money, we're looking ahead to having to spend more.

So that's that's the real that's the real tough part right now. I was going to ask if uh if you and Vince have sort of come up with a number in your head that you'd be willing to sacrifice to to finally get your boat back home. Um have you had this conversation with them? >> There's a walk away number, but I prefer not to say it. We do have a walkway number. >> I wouldn't expect you would, but it is for sure something you had to talk through.

It's >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because at some point it doesn't make sense. >> Sure. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Well, thank you again, Elizabeth, for joining us. If you're watching till the end, thank you. connect with us and we can put you in touch with Elizabeth if there is something you can do to help. Don't hesitate to reach out. Uh we'll put the link to where you can learn more about Elizabeth Journey. Do you want to say a few words about your uh your podcast, Elizabeth?

Sure. Thanks. I'd love to. So I have the AI Captain's Log podcast and I focus on AI and the marine space and um it's been really fun and I really enjoy the podcast. I've had some great guests. So you can check mine out too. Mine if you Google it, I'm sure like you guys um I'm the first one that comes up under AI captain's log. So, >> and we'll make sure to link it below as well. You got it. So, again, if you are looking to buy a new boat, we urge you to conduct your due diligence.

That will not eliminate all risks, but it will help. We also suggest you surround yourself with council and consider buyer representation. You know, talk to us. It's not always the case that a new shipyard, new boat builder will work with uh representation, but there are ways to make it work. It's not because the shipyard won't pay for it that it doesn't make sense for you to have some sort of help. So anyway, you'll find all the ways to get in touch at the link below and we will also see you at the boat shows.

Thank you, Elizabeth, and thank you all for watching. We'll see you in the next one. Phil wins.