Tinashe: Broke Boys, Golf Bros & Short Kings transcript

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. >> Tasha, welcome to Caller Daddy. >> Thanks for having me. >> I am so excited to have you here. I was thinking about this on my way here. I was like, >> the year was 2014, [laughter] >> and I was a freshman in college. >> I had horrible extensions. >> Yeah. You had to. It was a right of passage. Honestly, my hair was like silver. >> I had really bad eyelash extensions that were like kind of like coming off. >> Yeah. >> And when Tuon came out, the pregame was never the same.

[laughter] >> Anytime I felt like I was like, I need to feel something, I would put it on, I would get ready, and I would feel so confident going out that night. And since then, you have continued to release music that makes me feel that way. And you've also just continued, I feel like, to really navigate a difficult industry and make a name for yourself while also not losing yourself, which I'm very excited to talk to you about today. >> No, thank you so much.

Of course, that's always the goal. It's like make the listener feel like her best self. >> And then when I was doing research, I was like interested to learn that your personality, you say you're a little bit more lowkey. >> I'm very lowkey. >> And you're interested in things like aliens and the Lochness Monster. How did we get here? How did that start? Tell me everything. >> Um, no, that was like that was like my elementary school fixation like library books.

Like I was I was like what are we learning about the conspiracy theories? Like I was diving in deep >> from from a young age, you know, questioning everything. Very Aquarius I feel. Are you still like that? >> I'm definitely still like that, but I'm like not like deep on the Lochess monster. I feel like I've found out everything there is to find out at this point. They still haven't found her. So, it's like, [laughter] >> oh, you're like a full expert.

Okay. So, is your for you page just like a bunch of conspiracy theories? >> No, not anymore. Not anymore. It's plants. Honestly, I'm like a plant mom. Big plant girl. >> Is your place just filled with plants? >> I have like 50 plants. >> What's your favorite plant? >> Oh my gosh. I can't pick a favorite. They're like my children. >> So, your whole house? >> Yeah, my whole house. Actually, my favorite plant is a plant that my mom's had from college and she like propagated it time and time again.

It's had babies all over town. It's beautiful. >> What else is on your algorithm? I'm trying to think of like Tasha opens her phone. I'm like, what's going on? >> It's so funny. Like my IG whatever is is full plants. Like it's so funny. Um but yeah, I don't know. Like I like to keep it that way. I've curated it. >> I was going to say to a tea that's strategic. >> It's so calming. You know when like you get on the [laughter] wrong side of the internet and you're scrolling and then you're like I don't know how I got on the side or just like negativity and you're like working so hard to rework your algorithm and like I'm watching the cooking video that I'm actually [laughter] not even interested but I'm like this will be my new algo. >> No, the worst is when it's like someone that like you have beef with or like an enemy and they keep coming up and you're like I don't want to see this.

You're like pressing. >> It's so scary. No, it's the internet is a scary scary world. But I'm glad that you've created yours to make you yourself feel better. >> It's peaceful. It's great. >> How would your friends describe you? >> Oh, good question. I don't know. Very probably, you know, hardworking, all those things. A perfectionist, somebody who constantly is striving for that next thing, raising the bar for myself.

But like, you know, I enjoy just hanging out, like being with the girls, being with my family, being outside. So, I think they would describe me as kind of low key. I don't know, actually. >> Okay. I saw a writer describe you once as a postapocalyptic baddy who is making art and dropping it low in the face of life's paradoxes. >> Wow. >> Does that resonate at all? >> I feel like that was very much my last era. I was giving that like with Nasty, you know, that was kind of like the aesthetic like we were in the I was kind of like being chased by surveillance.

That was kind of like some of the themes I was experimenting with. >> That was I also think like a big theme that you explored in your last album was like contradictions. >> Um what are some contradictions you've realized maybe within yourself over the years? >> Yeah. I mean right away we just nailed one which is like I'm very introverted and also very extroverted in a lot of ways. Like I love to be alone. I love like my free time.

I love not having a huge group of people around me. And then on the flip side like I love to entertain. I love to put on a show. I love to like be in front of an audience which requires people. So it's like there's this really interesting kind of juxtaposition there and kind of like a contradiction I think. But like yeah. >> Are you someone that recharges by being alone or socializing? >> I like to be alone. >> I like to be in my own space with my cat just like >> doing my thing. >> What's your cat's name? >> PJ. >> PJ.

How How old? >> He's eight. He's eight now. He's a grown man. >> Wait, how long do cats live till? >> Like 16. >> Okay, so you're >> he's got a while. >> Oh, we're good. >> Oh, wait. Hopefully. >> Okay. Oh, PJ. What does PJ [laughter] stand for? >> Prince Junior. >> Wait, and was there a Prince Senior or Prince? How did Prince Junior have Prince? >> Yeah. Oh, of course. Prince. >> Prince the Junior. [laughter] >> I So, >> and then I had another animal.

Well, my dog, his name was Jackson. You know, I see the thread of connectivity. >> I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing. >> Um, something that also I was thinking about when we were talking about contradictions is one of them being for me that comes up a lot and I think as a woman maybe it's like the contradiction between being confident and being vulnerable is a fascinating one to me. Oh, yeah. >> And I'm wondering how do you personally balance those two in your life? >> Yeah.

I think I use my art as kind of the funnel for my vulnerability. I think it kind of gives you a safe safety net in a sense because it's art and it's under the guise of art and so it allows me to have these vulnerable moments and express myself in ways that like maybe I wouldn't dayto-day as easily. So like the conversations, things I want to say to someone, feelings I want to get across, emotions, I'm putting it in the art. if it comes to like even just like the way I express myself and like my confidence and my sensuality, my sexuality, like a lot of that is like in the art.

And so it's like a really interesting vessel for me to be able to like >> I guess yay express myself. >> Like have you ever had it where you're like I'm so good at expressing it in my art >> and then when it comes to relationships I'm like >> oh yeah >> all of a sudden mute. >> Okay. [laughter] So, it's easier for you to just like pour it into the work, but maybe in your real life you're still trying to figure out that balance. >> Yeah.

I have to honestly, it's been something that I've worked on a lot is being able to speak my mind a lot of times. I kind of identify with being like non-confrontational and like not wanting to stir the pot, but I have a lot of thoughts. So, it's being able to bring that to the surface, being able to be real, which I think is something that I learned also with being able to run my own business, like going independent, being able to like make my own art.

Like, I think that makes you, it forces you into the position where you have to be really real with how you feel about things. >> That's a good point. I want to go back to that because your origin story, when I was researching you, I didn't realize that you started out in a girl group. >> I did. at 14 years old. >> Yeah. >> In what ways did like being a part of a group kind of impact the way that you found your own identity and your own voice? >> Yeah.

I think it was the first time that I'd experienced the music industry at all. I had no experience. I was not like, you know, a part of this industry at all. I just knew that that was where I wanted to be. So, it was probably the biggest just initial learning experience of like being in major recording studios, going on tour, like seeing how the industry worked, learning how to, you know, just whatever it is, like on a fundamental level, kind of like go through the motions of what it means to be an artist. >> And at 14. >> At 14.

Yeah. >> 14. I'm like, what was I doing at 14? Not that. 14. I >> I loved it. It was so fun. >> 14, >> girl. Yeah. We were going to d we were in rehearsals. We were learning all the choreography. And didn't you during that time um you opened for Justin Bieber on his My World tour? Yes. >> That's literally like the biggest flex. >> It was so amazing. >> I can't even imagine cuz that tour was when it >> were Were you a believer at the time? >> Oh, of course. >> Okay.

Oh, so it hit even better. >> Oh, of course. I was so happy to be there >> cuz that was kind of I feel like the beginning of when Justin became Justin, that tour changed everything. >> It did. And it was really palpable in the room to like be in the I still to this day probably have not heard the like decel levels in a in an arena that loud. Like the screams the screams were out of this world. And I just remember getting like so overwhelmed with like emotion and excitement and just being like this is where I belong. like the stage like it was just so much fun. >> I also thought that must have been really inspiring as an artist to be in a position where you're watching someone >> at the beginning of the height of their career.

Who did you look up to growing up? >> Britney Spears, Janet Jackson, Christina Aguilera, the Pussycat Dolls, Destiny's Child, Beyonce, >> you know, all the girls. When I was reading, I read that kind of the success of Tuon. You talk about how it was kind of like almost somewhat like a double-edged sword, and you have said for you specifically that there was almost like confusion of how to market you, which I think is really interesting.

Can you talk more about that? Yeah, I felt like I didn't really have a place to land and I had to continue to push back against I guess what people expected or or how they expected me to water it down or change it or mold it to make it make sense. That also must have been so frustrating because you're like you're trying to be authentic to yourself and you're trying to create your own voice and yes, you have these people that you look up to like a Beyonce or like a Britney, but you're carving out your own lane.

And I think not even in just music, it's very relatable where >> if something is the the set in stone of like this is the standard, people just kind of want to be like, okay, do you fit in the Britney box? Do you fit in the Beyonce box? you fit in the pussyc doll box and if you don't then they don't know what to do with you where it's like but at some point they carved their own lane >> of course >> and so you have to have an open mind in industries to allow people to be like I'm going to disrupt this in my way but that also requires people to have confidence and trust the artist which I feel like and speak from your own experience >> a lot of time the men in the suits in those positions think that they know what's best >> but you're the person with the talent >> yeah I mean but they're looking at a young girl and they have done it time and time again and XYZ.

And I think a lot of times that can be very confusing. And for me, it was really really important that I left that situation and was able to really remember that like my instincts and the type of music that I make regardless of whatever label people want to put on it is what I should do. Like ultimately that is the answer. That is that's the best art that I'm going to be able to make is going to come from myself of course. >> Can you share a little bit more about like how being so yes young in the industry when you were feeling these pressures?

How did you navigate >> trying to not conform and not kind of just give in? Because I can imagine it's hard when they're like just look like this, do this, and act like this and have this be your image and put this outfit on and then we can support and do this and you're kind of like >> to do that and lose myself or to maybe not immediately get as many opportunities but stay true to myself. How did you navigate that? >> It was really tough.

I felt there were a lot of moments where I'd honestly felt that I didn't have the choice and I felt like I had to in order to not there was this kind of looming idea of like being shelved. Like people talk about like being shelved. >> What does that mean? >> And that's basically like when you're signed to a record label and they quit funding your project. So you're still there but you don't have access anymore to like the money, [laughter] >> right?

And you're put on the shelf. >> Yeah. you're just put on the shelf and you kind of get stuck there. And it's like a classic story. It's happened to many many people and many artists. So, you know, especially as a young person in the industry, you want to, you know, you want to work with the people who are you're working with and you want to be somewhat cooperative. But it would be it would be really interesting being in these rooms with these older men and it would only be me and I would just be like, I think I think it should be like this.

And a lot of times it just be like, ah, girl, girl, no, no, no, no, no. and they're, you know, doing their thing and it's always like 10 dudes and me. It was just a a big learning experience. A big Yeah, I think I grew up so much and learned so much through that experience. >> Who the hell did you lean on for support? >> Yeah, I mean, [laughter] my family, honestly. Uh, I mean they weren't with me in these rooms, but like obviously I have like a really supportive family system that's kept me really grounded in this industry because it can be super tough and it's very isolating.

It's very lonely. A lot of times you are the only person in these places and and in these rooms and advocating for yourself as a young person can be a lot and and so intimidating. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like the music industry is such a hard industry to get into and it's like your mental health and your well-being and your creativity. It's like you can protect it as much as you can try. And I'm sure it's hard. Like I'm sure you've seen artists where you're like >> gh like I know I could have done that. >> Yeah. >> Right.

You're like I could have done that and then maybe I would have been here at this point or I could have kept doing this and then been here and it's like you're constantly having to look at what other people are doing too. negotiate a bit with like your own artistry and sense of like is this going to be popular or is this going to be >> you know what I want to do? Yeah. Fundamentally I've I mean ultimately I've landed on you got to do what you want to do. >> Well, I was going to say it clearly has worked out for you >> after leaving your label.

You've had such success. I mean, I even think particularly with the song Nasty. I'm like, >> "Yes." >> Like, every single person in the world just like singing that song, it's so viral. Like, >> tell me, first of all, >> yeah, >> Tashe, how does one match your freak? What What does that look like? >> Oh my goodness. I mean, the juryy's still out on that one cuz no one has matched it thus far. >> Stop. No one. >> No one has.

I mean, from time to time, some people have put their name in the ring, but they've tried. >> They've tried, >> but it hasn't [laughter] worked. >> Okay. So, you're single. >> Yeah, I'm single. >> How are you currently approaching dating? >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not. >> You're not dating. >> I wish. I kind of wish. Okay. What do you mean you wish? You You're perfect. You're gorgeous. You're successful. >> It's It takes a lot to carve out the time.

I'm honestly like to to be real. And also, I think you need to take the time to do the deep research of like finding these people because if you're just like, "Oh, someone's going to cross my path based on the crossing path method." That hasn't like worked too great. That hasn't worked. And I've genuinely felt that if I had gotten into a serious relationship a bit earlier in my life that I had fears that I wouldn't have felt fulfilled in my career.

And I kind of always felt like I needed to kind of achieve this certain thing in my career before I made those steps to like really pursue that seriously. >> Do you think you'll ever be ready? Because I feel like >> Exactly. Cuz when when when >> I feel like especially as women, we are so understandably like, oh my god, we have this moment and there when you're having success, it's nervous. Like it I get nervous to take your foot off the pedal and like pour a little into yourself and stop with work for a second >> because again, we're taught like there's only a couple of us that can make it in our very specific field.

And so then you're sitting there and you're like, I don't have time for dating. And everything is a time window. Whether it be like your career or dating or whatever, you're like, "Okay, well, how am I going to I think for me in terms of like wanting to make it a priority, this is maybe the first time that I've started to feel that way in a >> seriously probably ever. >> And why? What do you think has been shifting for you?" >> Um, I think I feel more assured in my career now.

I feel like I've accomplished a lot of things for myself and that I've reached a lot of places where I feel okay, I've done it. Um, I feel a lot better than I did even like 2 or 3 years ago in that regard. Have you had relationships in the past where the person was either threatened by your career or it was also just like why are you prioritizing so much of your career over us time? Yeah, I think it's it's been I've had a situation where it was especially when you know both people are professionals.

A lot of times it's hard to determine like who's going to make sacrifices. >> You were hard. That is difficult. And I don't think I was ever in a place where I was willing to make sacrifices. >> Interesting. I was just having this conversation with my therapist recently actually about like arriving at things and this feeling that we're always constantly looking forward to arriving but then like what does it feel like when you actually arrive?

Like a lot of times there is no arrival. That concept doesn't even exist if you like really think about it. >> I completely agree with you. I feel like I've had the same conversation recently with some of my friends of like >> everyone has these goals in their life where like if I just could get this then then then and then weirdly when you achieve it like oh my god I made it then you're at these award shows then your song goes to this and you do this and then and then it's like when you look back at like where your barometer was to where then we set it for ourselves.

I think as women we can get like, "Oh my god, like I said, there's only a small window." But then you start to look at and you're like, "Oh, this window's bigger than I ever thought." >> It is big. Life is long. There's so many opportunities, >> right? We freak ourselves out. >> I'm curious for you also, like >> no matter how much we work on ourselves, the pressures around relationships and timelines can creep in, especially as women and you're and it's like >> entering your 30s >> and everyone tells us entering our 30s, you're like, you're done.

And I'm like, I've never we have never felt better. >> Excuse me. >> Wait, [laughter] I'm feeling it. >> I'm feeling really good right now. How do you manage the feelings around timelines and pressures and all of that? >> Yeah, I I mean I guess yeah, it's tough. I think for me it's it's constantly focusing on like wellness and like my mental wellness and keeping that energy around me because having my work be something that I prioritize so much and being so busy and all those things.

I think taking care of myself on like a spiritual level is really really really crucial again to like making sure that I can function really honestly. >> Um what does self-care look like for you though cuz I love how you're like I'm pouring into myself. What are we doing? >> Yeah. you know, being outside, exercising, skin care, drinking my water, staying hydrated, you know, being happy, like just getting sleep. Oh my gosh, making sure I get my rest.

That like really helps. I also think something that you referenced earlier that I'm curious about when you were like, it's almost like I need to do a lot of re like the research [laughter] process. >> Yeah, the research. >> What What do you mean by the research process? because I feel like you kind of have to I don't know maybe maybe this is wrong but like you kind of have to put in an effort and I'm unclear about what that effort looks like >> because I don't really want to get like on the apps. >> So it's like I get >> should I like take up golf? >> No. >> Like people are like you should join a tennis club.

I'm like, >> should I? >> Maybe. >> Maybe I should. >> Maybe you should. >> Maybe I should. >> Maybe this is the next time I see you, you're going to be like, I joined the club. [laughter] I met the guy. Can you play golf or tennis? >> I mean, like, >> we Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm athletic. >> Yeah. Yes, you are. You can learn anything that you want. >> Yeah. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money.

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Try Tinder double date because everything's better with friends. Download Tinder today. Okay. So let's go through. You're like, I need to figure out if I'm going to meet someone in the wild. >> Yeah. >> I have I have a little game we're going to play. >> Okay. >> Okay. In the No Broke Boys music video, you go over some standards with the girls >> and I'm gonna list some of these standards from your music video and you're gonna >> tell me how you're you're feeling about them now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Number one. >> Mhm. >> Not broke in all caps.

Now, besides money, >> is there any other meaning behind that or this is strictly financial? >> Um, I mean, yeah, sure. like spiritually broke, like uh mentally broke, like just not filling your cup in any way. Just not great. But then like also money >> because like I've dated a broke like a broke guy before. >> It's not It's just not it. I'm sorry. >> So, were you a sugar mama at that point? >> Girl, I'm not going to lie.

There was a couple times I was taking cash out of the ATM getting no [laughter] >> you're like this is for dinner. >> I was like here you go. I was pissed too. Pissed. >> Oh my god. And then isn't that the worst? >> And I was like I'm never doing this again. That's why I wrote a song about it. Don't do it again. >> No broke boys. Okay. >> Next. [clears throat] Don't send men money ever. [laughter] Ever. >> Do not lend men money. >> Once you're there, abort mission. immediately.

Actually, don't even do that cuz again, like I said, that don't date broke Ben. >> So, yes, then we'll never put ourselves in that situation. You did it for us so that [laughter] we could learn. >> I did the research. I did the research. This see research, honey. Okay. >> He has under 1k followers. Explain. >> I would prefer someone who's not like on social media that much. >> Oh, me too. Like I I I would appreciate if I went to a guy's page and I was >> like hasn't posted since like 2018 >> and he has like a hundred followers.

Yeah, I agree. >> And it's like his mom. >> Ideal. >> Yes. >> And it's like a random picture of like a tree or like a golf course and you're like >> scroll down two post and it's him in high school. You're like yes. >> Perfect. >> The best treat you could ever You've >> Not cuz he's young. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. He's on [laughter] his post. >> Yeah. It's been 20 years since he has posted himself in high school. [laughter] Clarification.

Have you ever gotten burned by a guy on social media before? >> Of course. Who hasn't? >> Like what? Posting something you found out. >> I found out so much stuff via social [laughter] media. But that's the thing. Like they're not that smart. So it's really easy. >> It's really It's too easy. >> Like what's something that What's something that you found out through social media? >> I mean that he was dating someone else, that he was out with somebody else. all the all the gamut that someone else is in his house like all sorts of. >> Isn't it the worst when you find that and you're like >> like the tagged photo [laughter] >> and he's in the likes. >> OH, like this is public.

[laughter] >> This is public. >> You're right though. The worst is when you're like, I'm so proud of myself if I can get like full inspector FBI on this. And then sometimes you're like, >> wait, why did you make it that easy though? >> No, I didn't even have to go full. It's right there, dude. And do you usually confront these men when they do this? >> No. I just I mean, at that point, I'm usually like, "Okay, noted." But yeah, sure.

If I need to. >> You need to. Yeah. >> If I was like in a relationship with them, yes, >> then yes. >> But otherwise, [laughter] I'm just like, "No, >> noted." >> Okay, fair. Um, okay. Not a DJ club promoter. >> Yes. Okay. >> How does DJ disco Lines feel about this? >> I don't know. I haven't asked him directly but I think he would disagree but I've also done the research in that field and I just it hasn't worked out for me [laughter] to you're like it was just something about the club promoter that just like it didn't give long term >> it didn't give you know safety and and trust.

You're laying in bed at 3:00 a.m. and you're not feeling >> you're not feeling cozy. >> You're not feeling protected. [laughter] >> Okay. So, and you've also dated DJs before. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> And do you think there's something for like the girlies where it's like, oh, you get like the rush when you first time get to go in the DJ booth and you're feeling special and then >> that's fun, but like >> but then you realize how many other girls.

[laughter] >> It's a profession. It's like their profession. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Yeah. >> Um Okay. 65 minimum. [laughter] >> Talk to me. >> Okay. I mean, like I'm like kind of trolling. Like I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I do like tall guys. I agree. Does he have to be over six foot? >> I wouldn't say have to, but like that would be great. >> You would like it. >> I would like it. >> You would like a six >> two to three. >> Two to three. >> You know, 6'5.

Amazing. [laughter] >> Fine. pick me up and throw me on your shoulder. No short kings. >> I mean, I've also dated a short king. Oh, how'd that go? >> Um, at the time I was like, "It's fine." And I remember my mom was like, "I don't know." And [laughter] I was like I was like, "No, it's fine." I was like young though. I didn't know any better. >> Not the justification of dating the short king. cuz like it was my first boyfriend was the short king, you know, and then you realized >> and then I was like, "No, he was short and broke. >> You have to not be broke." And then maybe I'll give you a little bit more leniency, but you can't be short and broke. >> No, that's too much.

That's too much. >> Who's your mom does your mom put her foot down and be like, "Never again?" >> Um, I wouldn't say she puts her foot down, but you know, she she makes her >> opinion note. >> Opinion note. [laughter] >> I love a mom like that. You're like, and the worst is when you don't listen to your mom in the beginning and you're like, "You don't know me. You don't get me, Mom." And they're like, "Uhhuh." And then it all crumbles to the ground.

You're like, "Mom." And she's like, "Mhm." You're like, >> "In fact, she knows you better than you know yourself." >> It's the worst. >> But it is [laughter] the best. >> It is. >> Um, okay. Next. Good with his hands. >> How quickly do you know if there is sexual chemistry with a guy? Like, do you think that it can build? I think yes, but like you know already off the bat if you're attract I'm okay maybe for me. Let me just speak for myself.

I am not really sexually attracted to someone that I'm not like attracted to by my eyeballs. So if I don't like immediately already like see it for you, then I'm not going to get to that place. >> I understand. You're like, I need to physically be attracted >> and want to like go up to you and talk to you. >> Yeah. I have to think you're kind of I have to think you're kind of hot. >> Right. >> But I think it's like the intangible things like or like >> like obviously like how like you're feeling in the moment like if you're feeling really confident and like yourself and not self-conscious.

I think that's like a big plus. Or like another one is like if you like one time I was like I hooked up with this guy and like I thought I didn't like how he smelled and he didn't smell bad. I just didn't like it. >> No. No. That's like a full pheromone thing where you're like >> I was like yeah I don't think >> it's not it's like not vibing. That is like a I think that's a full thing. I've had that before too where I'm like my like my pH balance levels are not working with yours. >> It's not >> it's not hitting right. >> It's not it's not going to go work. >> I do appreciate you saying that though because I agree.

I think like when you are going to start to see if there's chemistry. I do believe that the chemistry and the hookup and the sex can get better. >> But I love how you just said like there are signs though that have nothing to do with like the actual actual did you feel comfortable? Did you feel confident? Did you feel safe? Did you feel seen? You're like oh then there maybe then we just need to like learn each other's bodies more.

But I think that's good to like not completely write them off unless it's like, you know, really bottom of the barrel and you're like, "All right, I never want to see you again." [laughter] >> Okay, last but certainly not least, emotionally available. >> Now, >> what are some signs that you've experienced in the past where maybe someone was clearly not emotionally available, but maybe you still pursued them because we all love to do that.

Um, you know, when they extended situationships, >> extended situationships. Do you find yourself in situationships often? >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's talk about this, [laughter] Tanche, because situationships, I would argue, are more painful >> than real ending of like relationships that had titles and we met each other's family. Clear. >> Yes. Mhm. >> Okay. How are we ending up in situationships? What is happening? >> I mean, I think it's easy when you're busy.

You got a lot going on. You're like, "Let's just, you know, let's see how this goes." And that I think that's the thing. It's like there's a lot of upfront chemistry and excitement and that purposefulness sometimes is what's missing. And I think you start to notice pretty early on, but it's easy to write off the signs because we're having fun, we like each other, the sex is good, we, you know, we're busy. Anyways, >> do you find yourself in the situationship usually the person cuz I know you've been so focused on your career being like, >> you know what, I just want this something casual.

Like, are you the one setting the boundary of casual? >> Um, I definitely have. Yeah. And then have you ever gotten feelings? >> I've I've experienced a situation where it's gone back and forth. >> Oh, >> I don't want anything serious. He has feelings. I want something serious. He doesn't want back and forth. The switch, the flip. >> Wait, I feel like that's literally the worst type of situation >> cuz that's the longterm ones. >> You're You could be in that for >> You could be in that for years.

[laughter] No, because it's like the way that it got started was you guys kind of agreeing it was going to be nothing too serious. Then one gets feelings, so one pulls back, then you agree, fine, we can keep it casual, then what? And then >> cat and mouse, >> but it's kind of addicting. >> It's super addicting. >> Watch out for those. >> Have you ever had a situationship turn into a relationship? >> Um, no, but I've had a relationship turn into a situationship. >> What?

I've gone the opposite direction. >> We've regressed. >> What? Explain. >> I mean, you've never like hooked up with your ex and then like kept hooking up with your ex [laughter] >> like that. That's how it happens. >> No, I thought you meant literally like you're like or boyfriend and girlfriend and then we're like, "Let's break." >> No, no, there was like a break. >> A little break. Yeah. >> You literally are like, "But let's keep it casual." No, dude.

That is the worst when you start hooking up with an ex again. It's familiar. It feels easy. It feels like this can't this is I know this, >> but then you're stuck in a cycle. >> Highly unadvisable. [laughter] >> You're like, "These are all the things to not do, girl." >> Easier said than done, but highly inadvisable. I get it, though, because it's like it's safe. It's easy. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile.

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Oh, you're like, "We just went [laughter] through it." That >> Yeah. >> And what did you want them to change? >> Yeah. I mean, I think to me [laughter] it's an array of things, but I think um with that song specifically, I think I'm just talking about the avoidance specifically. I think there's it's hard when someone's you can't tap into them. Like even if you're close, if you're physically in the same room with them or like you're touching them and they still seem far away and you can never get in.

I think that's an impenetrable boundary. Like that hits cuz I'm just thinking about all of the people listening that you're like it's almost this like intangible thing that it's hard to describe. They're like, "Well, what did he do?" And you're like, >> I there's just like an avoidance or a distance that I can't quite >> And can they change? That's the thing about like somebody who has that kind of quality and like distance from their emotions.

I think that kind of begs the question like are they even in touch with is that even something that they'll be able to access or like get to or is this something that will always just like be at a distance for them? And I think [snorts] >> it's dude that's really hard to answer because I think a lot of times we get into those situations where we're like we see glimpses. And so I think that inevitably a lot of us go into relationships being like, of course someone can grow and they can change.

And so when you see glimpses, you hold on to those little baby glimpses where you had a little breakthrough or something. But if you look at something consistently and it's not changing, that's when it's hard to be like >> you kind of have to be the one to walk away. >> Yeah. That's why that's why this song I think is so hit so hard for me because the the issue that I speak about the song is that I can get so close to you but like you're still so far away or you give me a little but never enough.

And that's the thing with like somebody who is avoidant. It's like it on the surface it might look like they give you XYZ. They go through the motions, but like you still can't crack that like deep inner core or like maybe you do from time to time, but it's like and you don't feel fulfilled. >> You don't feel fulfilled. And I think that's a really painful realization to come to when you're like, "Okay, maybe it looks good on the outside, but I'm not getting that like juicy inner core." >> Yes.

And I love that you're saying that because I think sometimes it's hard when you're in that situation as the person that is giving so much and you're not getting a lot back. When I kind of said like you could see glimpses of it, I think that we convince ourselves like, okay, maybe I'm I'm asking for too much or maybe I just need to be more patient or maybe they really are trying their best. But I also think at the end of the day, relationships it's like if there's not reciprocity and it's they could be a great person also by the way this doesn't make them a bad person. >> Yes.

But if you feel so unfulfilled >> at some point even if they check a lot of boxes >> that pit in your stomach and that gut intuition feeling, it's never going to go away. So you do sometimes have to be the one to rip off the band-aid. >> Yeah. And I think that song also kind of talks about that because >> you those are almost the situations that you want to like hold on to longer cuz you're like it's not that bad. Like it could be worse.

Like it could be, you know, you could be doing this, you could be doing that. And so I think sometimes that's why that song kind of ended up with being like I'd rather be alone because you realize that like your own peace of mind like your own happiness, your own fulfillment is more important than like an almost >> that's what I wrote that down in the song. You say, "I've learned that it's worse to look back and admit I lied to myself when I always knew better." M >> I was like >> cuz then you're basically self-abandoning totally in these moments and it takes you a lot of times leaving the relationship to look back and be like oh my god what was I doing which is so painful sometimes because >> hurting the relationship with yourself is sometimes more painful than when you are breaking up a relationship with someone else because you're like how did I get so far away from >> me >> I think that's the hardest hardest thing to grapple with and when someone hurts you and you feel like, oh, this was this was my this is on me because I knew better.

And I think the the line I say immediately after that is potential is just potential, which is another thing that I think I've had to really learn is that potential is just potential. I know. And it's like crazy the mind tricks that we play on ourselves to convince ourselves. Like I said, like but maybe it's because and you're like if you keep saying but maybe >> and everyone tells you this but you can't you know when you're in it.

Do you have any advice for your younger self of like how to maybe get out of situations sooner and not get to the point where you are lying to yourself and you're kind of going down this longer road that maybe you didn't have to subject yourself to. I mean, I would give myself the advice that everyone gave me, which is to just like be real and like assume that, you know, what you see in front of you is is the truth. But I think again, I wouldn't I can't I can't look back now and think that I would have ever done anything differently because like I said, you have to it's like a canon effect, like a canon event.

You can't interfere. Like sometimes you just have to like let the cycle play out even if you do know better and even if you do have all the good advice in the world. I um saw that you had said in conversation about like how long it can actually take to heal from a breakup. In the past you've said days, try years. [laughter] When you look back at getting over a relationship and grieving a relationship, what do you think for you specifically you found yourself mourning? >> Yeah. >> Post breakup.

Mostly um I think the potential that I saw for myself, which is another thing that I think you learn is like the person that I expected to become by being in this relationship. And I think that a key a key is realizing that you can become that person without a relationship at all. And you already are that person a lot of times. But it sometimes feels like you can only access like your happiest self or your most outgoing self, your most comfortable self or or those things like through someone else seeing those things in you. >> It's such a good point and I agree.

It's so hard to do it. But you're right. It's always right there and then we try to look and see like well maybe this relationship will give it to me and it's like no no no you can give it to yourself >> 100%. um for you when you've had moments where you felt like you were healing post breakup or situationship, what has set you back maybe in the past? I think life is very cyclical and I think we go through a lot of just like cycles of feeling good and feeling bad and feeling confident and feeling less confident and whether that be because of like something that happened that triggered it or just like the seasons changed and like it's getting colder and now I like >> miss you >> miss you.

I think those things happen and I think my career is very cyclical as well. Like I go through these cycles of like writing an album, touring an album, promoting an album, writing an album, touring an album, promoting an album. So a lot of times like I think a lot when I'm like creating that can really dredge up a lot of emotions in me or like I go through when I'm traveling and I'm alone a lot like really lonely in hotel rooms a lot then like maybe I'll be like I wish I had someone to talk to. >> Right.

[laughter] No, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like, yeah, we get our weakest when we're alone and we feel lonely and it's like, hold on. >> If you went back, I always used to say this to myself, like, if I went back, would anything change? >> No. So, stop it. You're just lonely right now, but it doesn't mean you actually miss him. You miss having someone, and that's normal. >> And I think you can literally also be bored. >> Yes.

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Nothing goes out without you. And Claio shows up for your customers 247 the right answers because it just knows them. Nearly 200,000 brands already have this friend. Meet your new B2C CRM best friend, Clavio. Go to kla v i yo.com/b bestfriends. >> I would be shocked to find someone who hasn't had like obviously like a minor crash out of her relationship which kind of brings me to my next question. >> Part of your promo for your song Crash Out, it included a clip of you taking a sledgehammer to a car. >> Yeah.

Fun. >> What inspired the car smashing? Um, well, at the end of the day, my album's called Pop Star, and a lot of the themes surrounding it are like classic like pop star tropes, whether it be like performances or stunts. So, I was like, we should do a stunt. Like, we need like a gaggy moment. And it would be really funny if people like didn't know that it was a stunt, like, you know, like a true publicity stunt. >> Yes.

Yes. >> I don't want people to know that we're promoting my album. I just want to go out there and like people who don't like follow me are seeing it online and they're like what the hell and that's exactly what happened. So it worked. It was fun. It was great. >> We're all like what is Tashi doing and whose car is that [laughter] and is I love this but also like what did he do to her? Were you thinking of anyone specific when you were um >> Oh my gosh.

I was just thinking about how heavy that sledgehammer was. Girl, that [ __ ] was like 25 30 lb. >> Right. You're like this sounded like a good idea. >> I had no idea they were that heavy. >> No, no, no. That's actually [laughter] I was impressed. >> Um, in the song you talk about people sitting on the internet hating. >> What has your experience been with just the public's perception of you and internet hate and how you deal with it? >> I mean, I've also gone through like es and flows of being like the butt of the joke to being like an internet darling to being like butt of the joke again to like being an internet dar.

I think that's kind of like how there's always like a a pingpongy between like the internet loves you >> girl. Like there was like a period of time people were calling me tennis shoe. >> I had a song called All Hands on Deck. One time I took a picture on the red carpet like this and they called me all hands no neck for like two years. >> That is so [laughter] terrible. And how do you deal with those moments? >> You know, good oldfashioned just try to stay offline as much as you can.

And but I've also just gotten a way thicker skin over the years. Like you just you develop [laughter] an ability to take criticism and to like let it roll off your back. The more you see it, the easier it gets. The only internet stuff that bothers me to this day is the stuff that I like kind of agree with. You know, like the stuff that taps your insecurities is when it's bad. >> Yeah. Like for me it's like when people talk about like my performance at something something something because I'm very very critical of like >> the things that I do my art and stuff and if I'm typically like yeah it could have been better and then someone says like it could have been better I'm like damn they're right it could have been better like they saw it.

So I think that those are the things on the internet that bother me but like people just like joking around being trolls like that doesn't really bother me >> anymore being an [ __ ] about a bad photo on a carpet that we all have. You're like, "Please, please leave me alone." Okay, I get it. >> Um, there are also lyrics about rebellion and kind of rejecting societal expectations. You say, "I don't want to be a good girl." What do you think >> that?

What do you mean in that context? >> Yeah. I think in my life career, I think there's also like this framing around what people expect of me, what people expect of women, what people expect of I guess, yeah, being a professional. And I think you're constantly questioning whether those like standards are are worth it, whether it's worth your standing. Again, this kind of like ties back into like fitting into boxes. Um, watering yourself down or like making the things that you really feel and really think smaller.

And sometimes, especially as an artist, I think you just want to be able to express like the full capacity of yourself and your art and not have to have it be like picked apart and analyzed. And I think a lot of times you'd feel like you can't be 100% real nowadays, you know? No, I I really appreciate that because I agree. I think like especially as women, we deal with we're trying to people please and we're trying to be palatable and we want people to see us as likable and sometimes you're then if you start to get so fixated on being this like good girl or the liked girl, you're like >> you're doing everything to appease everyone and you're just going to lose yourself because unfortunately >> you can't be liked by everyone. >> You can't.

You literally can't. And the moment that you're liked by everyone half the time you're like, "Well, I was kind of like doing it because I thought that's what they wanted." And it's like, it's an impossible game that we play with ourselves that like >> men just do not have to think about it to any degree compared to what we do. I also think the song you kind of it reflects this idea that you're at this >> point in your career, in your life where like you don't need validation.

And I can like feel that from you like you're getting to that place where you're kind of like, >> "So what? What do you think it took from that young girl at 14 in that, you know, girl group to then now where you are in your career? Like what did it take for you to get to the point where you're like, maybe I don't need this external validation that's all inside? >> I think it's I've I've taken it all the way there to where I cared a lot about what people thought all the way to not caring at all and it's way better over here.

Like I think there's just so much freedom. But to get to that place, you need the experience, I think, of of caring a lot. Because because when I say I don't care at all, of course I care. That's the thing. It's like you always care about your art, about what you put out, about how people feel about you, but you don't care to the point where it becomes detrimental to your process or how you feel about yourself or your own value or I think that was the biggest thing from the 14-year-old to now is when I first started, I really kind of had this confidence and like knew I was going to become like the biggest artist in the world.

And I think I went full circle from that to being like, "Oh, I'm actually not confident in my ideas. Maybe like the things that I'm bringing to the table aren't that great because people aren't understanding them. Maybe I have to change things." Like maybe I don't know, this is confusing to then realizing that like, oh, I I am I can still be really confident and make all those things and be, you know, who I am at the end of the day.

And yeah, it just takes a journey. Well, that's why I'm so excited for you because your album Pop Star, >> which by the time this comes out releases this week, >> y >> first of all, congratulations cuz I do think it's kind of like an amalgamation of everything we just talked about, everything you just said. It's like all of the building blocks of who Tanasha is, now we're here and you have this piece of work that's coming out.

Can you talk a little bit more about what inspired this album for you? >> Yeah. Well, I wanted to put out a body of work that represented all of the things that make me me. And like we said earlier, I don't subscribe to like one particular sound, one particular genre. I've made records on this project that feel like dance records, like hip-hop records, like pop records, like R&B records. And I think they all to me fall under this umbrella of pop star.

And I wanted to bring that question or like bring that conversation to the table of what does it mean to be a pop star? And to me, I've always thought of it as an umbrella term, something that, you know, kind of can encompass all of the genres and isn't exclusive or, you know, I think a lot of times people have this idea of what pop is and maybe it's become more and more exclusive even over time. Um, what they think the sound is or what it looks like and there's kind of like a monolith and I I don't think I don't think that that's should be the case.

It's a great point also to have an album that has such a variety in genre and sound. Like can you talk more about the process of making this? >> How how did you even >> start? What were what was your thought process of how you were going to approach it? >> I mean I'm I wanted to have a real sense of play when I created this project like just feel really playful and free and go in there and make something that just was a fun enjoyable process.

And a lot of times that comes from challenging myself. It's making something that isn't easy or obvious and and maybe like adding elements that feel really contrasting. They feel in contrast to one another. So maybe like I have a really deep bassy heavy kind of song and then I have like really floaty vocals over top or or like vice versa. Maybe I'll like have something that feels like dancy and I'll like remove the drums or like taking playing with different elements and playing with my vocal performance and just like having fun.

And from what we were talking about like you are someone that works so hard. You're such a perfectionist. You want to get to continuing to build in your career. Like how do you feel about this album in terms of like where it kind of places you at in your life right now? >> Yeah. Um, it feels it feels the most like I've arrived. I think um so far I think I'm I just feel really confident in this project. I feel really like I am just showing up in like my most myself and just being unapologetic and not keeping I think I'm I have a tendency to almost like downplay my own accomplishments or like my own place in the world and in the industry and in culture and I think I'm just owning that I think with this project.

Okay, last question. >> Yeah. >> Now that you have built a career entirely on your own terms, >> um, what does success look like for you in the future? We have this album, Tashi is going to continue to thrive, but what does that look like for you? Yeah, I think I've reached the place where I've realized that being able to continue to make art in a comfortable way is like my main priority. To be able to continue to tour and put on the shows that I want to put on and make the visuals that I make and make music without having to worry about anything else is really is the goal.

So, I think being able to just sustain that and being able to be like my full creative self is the dream, you know, living. I'm so happy for you because hearing how hard you work and how much you have put into your career, how much you have really tried to not allow other people's opinions and other people's influence to >> essentially impact the way that you approach your own life and your own vision for your talent.

I think is so inspiring for women and anyone watching just because I think it's easy to hop on trains now day of like this is working and this will be catchy and this will do that and to stay true to your core. It's clear that you've done that and I'm so excited for the world to hear your new album. I'm so excited to continue to like follow your career and I'm sending you all the good vibes >> and just congrats again.

Like seriously, it's it was such a pleasure to get to talk. >> The pleasure was mine. Thank you for having me. [music] [music]