The Future of Social Media (Do This Before 2027) transcript

Alex, I need to start a personal brand. I need you to walk me through the whole process of building my team from $0 all the way to $100,000 a month. You're an expert in this field. You've done it for yourself. You've done it for clients. And you're an expert in the new age of marketing starting at level one where we have zero dollars and I just need to get started and I need to do it on a budget, but I need to make money from this.

What are things I should be avoiding? Yep. So, I'll start with this. The first thing you should be avoiding is sitting down and building out a strategy. >> That is the last thing that you should do. And the reality is a lot of creating content that's going to work on the internet is is a skill set. It's something it's like shooting a free throw. >> If I need to make 10 free throws, I'm not going to plan and think about how I'm going to make free throws.

I'm not going to sit down and be like, "My feet are going to be angled this way or they're going to be this way. My shoulders are going to be squared. I'm going to bend at this degrees." No, I'm going to start shooting, >> right? Okay, I'm going to start getting up as many reps as possible. Creating content is the same thing. And so when we talk about developing a strategy at the beginning, we're missing the boat there.

Instead, you need to be two things. You need to be a ferocious tester and a ferocious analyst, right? And so what I always tell everybody is you need to start with a testing strategy. Just map out, hey, this week this is everything that's going to go out, >> right? And you can do that in a day. Look at look at other things that are working in other platforms on in other categories. Bring that over to what you want to talk about and start testing.

You're going to start testing different content ideas. You're going to be testing different concepts, different formats, different packaging. You're going to be testing as much until you start finding micro wins. >> What about this? What if I'm not What if I don't perceive myself to be uh extremely creative? You don't need to be like, give me any category and I'll give something a way to be able to turn it into like a good content idea. >> Let's do like a CPA. >> Okay.

So, with a CPA, you can you can almost take the same angle of like a YouTuber who would do $1 cookie versus $10 cookie. you can go and be like, "Hey, this is the difference between hiring an online accountant versus which is may cost you $100 versus hiring an accountant that's going to cost you $1,000 an hour >> versus kind of Yeah. >> All of a sudden, that's super interesting because you got a lot of people that are like, "Okay, like I want to do the $100 like the $100 service, but the $100 service is just going to get my [ __ ] done versus if I spend $1,000 and I pay $1,000 an hour, I might make money back, right?" And so that contrast and good by bringing the CPA into it because I was I was I didn't I wasn't expecting that.

But that contrast right there is what's what's extremely interesting. But you could look legitimately you could look at cooking and cooking does comparisons all the time like that of like $1 versus $10, you know, $100 versus $1,000. >> Um and so you just have to be able to understand. But that right there is just like format and packaging. how you take an idea and you and you make it uh you position it in a way that's already working on a completely different channel.

And then once you start publishing that content now it's like you have to be this ruthless analyst where you have to be trying to find all the micro wins inside of this content. So you got to be looking at your skip rate. You have to be looking at your like to share ratio. You have to be looking at the retention graph. You have to be looking at the average watch time skip rate. The goal is to always be under 50% on on your skip rate.

If it's if you There's two parts. >> Can you define what a skip rate actually is? >> Yeah. So, a skip rate is basically is your hook interesting and and if not, I'm going to continue swiping. >> What's the do you know the data point? I actually don't know this. So, do you know the data point that they track to to factor in whether the skip rate is actually happening? Like is it how many seconds? Is it a split second?

Is it 3 seconds? >> It's 3 seconds. It's 3 seconds and if somebody can swipes past it within the first 3 seconds. And so, your skip rate is literally just how good is your hook? your hook in this case has to be your title hook, your um visual hook, and your verbal hook. Now, you play a different game when you're a brand a lot of times, and especially when you're playing in like these like 50k, 100k budget type of brands where I would say like 50% of them are are going to have a verbal hook, >> right?

The other 50, they they don't want somebody talking in their content. Now, and then on the other end, most don't want a title hook. And a lot of times a title hook for a brand is not going to work well because it's going to be perceived as an ad even if it's it's something native to to the platform. And a lot of times even brands don't want to use native text. So it's like you're playing dancing these games that are very hard.

And so when you start playing that game you have to be the best at understanding visual hooks. And in this case with a visual hook you should look at three things. You should look at the angle. The angle that it's shot at. So, let's say we wanted to disrupt a a pattern or we wanted to create some pattern disruption here. It's like we could have an overhead shot right here and like text on on screen that could be extremely interesting, but it's not what's typically shown or done with a podcast.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so, like changing the angle is a great way to to pattern disrupt on on on feed. Then you have the >> Can I ask a question between this? I know because I want to dive into the tactical of like what you'd recommend in terms of optimizing for the hook. >> Can you give me just a breakdown though of when you say looking at the analytics? Yeah. >> What analytics >> like what should I be looking for when it comes to you said under 50% for the skip rate?

Yep. >> What should I be looking for for the 3se secondond watch time? What should I be looking for the average view duration? What should I be looking for for the the share ratio? What's like a good what's like a good metric to >> chase? Let me go back to it. So skip [snorts] rate you want under 50%. >> Yep. What I found is if it's under 50% which means less than 50% of people are skipping at the 3se secondond mark it means you have a good hook.

Yeah. Right. The smaller that number is obviously the the better. I was looking at um >> I mean this is more personal brand side but I was at I was just at Sam Par's office in New York and he was showing me one of the videos that he just that he just posted that got like 4 million views where he's talking about his dad and his dad having like an onion company that does 10 million in in revenue. the skip rate um the skip rate was sorry the where people dropped off on the retention graph at 3 seconds it was still like 83% of people were still there.

M >> that is crazy, you know, like that is an amazing amazing uh number. And so you do want to be legitimately like obsessive and addicted to your analytics, which is not the norm for creators or creators. >> But the best creatives are the ones that are obsessed over over the data, right? Like you could easily throw Mr. Beast into this conversation where if you hear him talk, >> he never really talks from like the most creative perspective.

If he really talks from an analytical perspective, like to share ratio, if you can get two likes for every one share, one share for every two likes, that's a good ballpark to play. >> I've never heard that. That's really cool. >> That's a very very strong um metric to look at to know you have something valuable, have something sharable, which is like the the strongest signal to Instagram to say, "Hey, we need to share this with with other people." Cuz if it's worth sharing privately, it's worth sharing publicly via Instagram.

You get what I'm saying? It's good for them to put on the explore feed or in the >> tab. It's also an indication that your stuff is relatable. >> Yes. The next thing I'm looking at is the retention graph. I'm looking at my ability to tell stories and keep someone hooked and keep someone engaged. >> And what's interesting about the retention graph is yes, of course, you can measure your hook, but you could also me measure like, damn, why does everyone always drop off at the 8second mark? >> This goes into actually the next analytic.

Next um or metric is average watch time. >> 12 second average watch time is usually like where good videos die. >> H >> what I found is if it gets stuck at 12 seconds it's not going to pop. It'll be a good video but it it's it's not a great video but it has the potential to be a great video. What I have found is if a video gets a 12- second average watch time and now you start paying attention to your watch time, what you'll notice is over the next few hours, your average watch time should climb from like 12 seconds to 13 seconds, 13 to 14, and it'll keep going till like maybe 22, 23, 24 seconds.

If it stays stagnant at 12 seconds, >> you have a good video, but it's not going to be 100,000 plus million plus video. >> Yeah. If it starts to regress and go from 12 seconds to 11 seconds even over time, you're you're basically you're you're cooked. Now, what I have told brands to do and what we do internally is we look at the first 12 seconds of a video. The first 3 seconds when we're planning a video, we map out um second by second because the hook is the most important part.

You don't get to 12 seconds if the first three seconds don't matter. So, we're breaking it down every by the first 3 seconds by every second. Okay? So, we're looking at, okay, what did we do and what did we show and what did we say in the first second, in the second, second, and the third second. And we plan those whether it's the shot list, whether it's the words, whether it's the angles, the aesthetics, the actions.

All of those things are getting planned out. Then we continue to break things down into 3se secondond increments. So, here we're really looking at 1 second, 1 second, 1 second. I love that. Now we're going 3C the 3 second to the 6second 6second to the 9second 9second to the 12 second. >> Yeah. >> Reason for that is we don't want to get stuck by the 12second trap. >> Yeah. >> Right. And so if you can avoid that then or get past that going from legitimately going from 12 second average watch time to a 15 second average watch time for a brand can be adding tens of thousands of followers. >> Yeah. >> Every month. that difference because that difference is you getting shown to again and this is subjective to like the majority of videos are living within that 45se second to to minute uh range and so that metric is for that specifically most brands aren't making minute and a half videos you know what I mean so >> those are the metrics that I'm looking at >> I love that >> before we keep going I want to take a minute to tell you about Riverside podcasting is a lot harder than I thought it would be I thought that it was just set up a couple cameras and talk to someone for a couple hours and then suddenly you have a great conversation that's heard by a lot of people.

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Test it out for yourself and see how easy it makes your life. Thank you to Riverside for being a true partner in this conversation. Now, let's get back to the episode. >> For formats they should test. And again, this is the the the individual with no budget. For formats that you should test, you should be looking at oneshot videos, >> okay? And there's levels to a oneshot video, but specifically for specifically for somebody that has no budget, like you're probably not playing in the territory of like a company like About Blank who's doing beautiful vignettes where I ride a bike in front of a cafe, I park my bike, I walk inside, I d my friend up, and it's like beautifully locked off.

Like, we're not playing in that territory. We're playing on the territory of like phone on a on a tripod. Yeah. >> I take a step back, I do something, some kind of action, there's text on screen. That is a oneshot video. A oneshot video is a single scene where I do some kind of action and I put text on the video. >> Are you not Are you not anti like the 8-second reel type of thing? >> I talked to most people in our space and they're anti it.

They hate it. >> Anti- 8second rule. >> Yeah. Like no, the 8second reel where it's like text on screen, you know, rest of the stuff is in caption and it's some kind of B-roll thing. >> Am I against it? Yeah. No. And I'll tell you why. >> That is a testing mechanism for anything else. Let's say I'm I I want to make a video a week from now all about I think I have a good idea that's you know this is why Branch should start a a social show.

Cool. Well, guess what? I can I can set up my phone on a tripod. I can do some kind of B-roll and I could put text on screen that says the biggest marketing prediction of 2026 is launching a social show and brand should do it now. And that's my text on screen at 7 seconds. Let's say that pops. That's just not that's not me just saying, "Oh, wow." Like we had a video get 250,000 views. >> Holy [ __ ] People found that interesting.

People found the text interesting. The text did all the heavy lifting there. Therefore, I know I should take this video and I should and I should now scale that idea into I could scale it into a series. I could scale into a a carousel, a green screen video, a yap, right? I can scale it because I have a data point that says people are interested in this topic. >> Yeah. >> Let's say Grazza as an example. Imagine the B-roll is like I get a glass olive oil uh container or jar or whatever and I just like drop it, right?

And it shatters. And then the text on screen is like, "No one understands the pain of having a 2-year-old grab the olive oil >> when they're trying to cook with you and it shatters all over the floor." And you know, and you say something else about like how shitty it is to clean olive oil, right? Or clean oil off the floor. >> If I'm Graza and I put that as my as my text in my B-roll and all of a sudden like now and that video pops off now all of a sudden I'm Graza.

I'm like, "Oh, we have such an interesting angle here for ads >> where we can start targeting mothers >> with a phone >> and a bottle." You see how like you could you could actually get >> nasty. The concept is so much more important. Yes. >> Yeah. You don't need any money to do that. >> You don't need money to do that. >> You do need to be creative. And I think there's an aspect of what you're saying that might feel overwhelming just because it comes so naturally to you. >> Do you have any advice on someone that might be overanalyzing how much like they they're scrolling.

They understand that concept. They'll be saying, "Sweet. I'm going to scroll. I'm going to see, oh, I like this." >> Yeah. >> How do you recommend finding a bunch of ideas that they like and then testing? Or how fast should they go from, I like this, so I should do a version of this? >> No. I think first you start with scenarios that are relatable, stories that are relatable and things that you have dealt with that are >> if you have kids, use that.

If you have a wife, use that. If you have >> Yeah. Or like like it depends on the again, it depends on on the brand, but like you have to be looking most people start brands because they dealt with a specific kind of pain point. Yeah. >> Right. Like the CPG brand that I'm I'm working on, I started because of a pain point that I'm experiencing. And so it's very easy for me to then talk about it from my POV because I' I've dealt with that. >> But at the same time, like yes, you can go down both routes.

You can go from one where it depends on the kind of person you are. Some people are very good at at looking for stories in specific scenarios. >> Yeah. >> And being able to take those and package them into content ideas. One of the best things that I ever heard, I forget honestly who it was from, but was like some of the best creators are the ones that are able to find the story within each day. >> Imagine, imagine that I am trying to vlog, right?

And I'm a single individual trying to build my company and I'm trying to vlog. I'm trying to make like amazing day in the life content. If I have eight meetings on my calendar and I look at my calendar and I'm like, I can't make a piece of content today. All I've done is all I've been in is eight meetings, right? Like I've just been sitting behind this computer. It's not that interesting. If all of a sudden I go if I frame it and I look at my calendars, I'll be like, "Okay, four of those meetings are with manufacturers because I can't find the right manufacturer who allows me to get the right um based on the the amount of money that I'm in my bank account or that I'm willing to invest in this." You now have a story, right?

So that could go. This is day three of trying to build my CPG brand to a hundred million, but today I don't think it's ever going to be a $100 million brand because I can't land a manufacturer. I've been on calls all day >> trying to find the right one, but all of them want me to invest >> $250,000 and I can barely afford to get my kid into daycare. Right. Like all of a sudden, >> you just made the most boring day >> Yeah. extremely interesting where you're like, yo, is he gonna make?

You know what I'm saying? Like, is she gonna make it? >> Daniel D, Casey Neistat, and I think but I think Ryan's the best where you take something that's mundane, simple, and you're saying, how can I make this interesting? What's like he's going to a hotel that is one star and he's saying and he's looking at bad reviews and he's saying, "Let me confirm whether these reviews that is a Z concept, you know, like that's like a it doesn't cost anything." >> Cost $30. >> Yeah. >> With his iPhone.

I love just to summarize that you were like these are the analytics to track. That is so important. Can you give me one thing just on the end of this note of like overcoming the fear aspect cuz I think that's a big objection of putting myself on camera in the first place. That's a big thing that these people with zero dollars are facing. >> Yep. I was just at the Masters. One of my idols growing up was Dwayne Wade. I don't know if you know who Dwayne Wade is, but >> Yeah, dude. >> Okay.

Well, it just depends like you watch basketball now. One of the events at at the Maldin home, which is what where we were working on, >> was a a dinner um like a kind of like a superstar dinner. >> Yeah. >> Right. All of a sudden, Van pulls up. I know Dwayne Wade's going to be there. Dwayne Wade gets out of the van. He pops out with his Osmo Pocket and this guy is worth 2, you know, or not even 200, sorry, probably $500 million. >> Yeah. >> Pops out of his Osmo Pocket and is like literally the first step out of the car, he's like going wide angle on the house.

He's like pointing down at at all the different places. He's like one of us. >> He's like getting our screen. He walks past me. He's like, "Say what's up to the vlog. [laughter] He's like saying all this stuff." And he's like before he walks into the house, he puts his shoes on like the rug cuz the rug was a Mob Home rug. He points it down and he's like getting a foot shot and then he does a he pans up like and I'm sitting here like yo if somebody who's worth $500 million that could have right the team that the best team the creative director the strategist the DP the lead videographer etc is shooting by himself handheld doing something that he's >> probably not good at and is uncomfortable for he's the like the biggest name here three time champion biggest name here and he's shooting on an Osmo in front of all of these people who we have [ __ ] FX sorry F FX6s and and red Kimos and like we have all this and he's shooting on a a $400 $500 Osmo. >> Yeah, >> you can make a video.

Your favorite creator, the person you admire, >> they had to make their first video. >> Yeah, >> they all had to start they all start >> those videos probably sucked. >> Kobe Bryan got got uh cut from basketball teams. Michael Jordan got cut from basketball teams. They didn't put the they didn't put the the the basketball down. You know what I'm saying? Like some of the most >> influential and inspirational individuals that have ever like graced Earth athletically and that have done things in front of millions and millions of people failed miserably.

When they failed, it hurts 10 times more to get cut from a basketball team when all you want to do is play basketball. It doesn't hurt that bad when it's a shitty video and all you have to do is archive. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah, I love that. >> Reality check it. >> Let's uh let's jump. So, I want to move to the next tier, which is 5K. So, level two, $5,000 budget. I actually don't even know. I I I don't know who to hire for this.

Like, what's who's the person I should hire? What's the thing I should hire in order to figure this out? Because ideally, this is the first level where we're thinking about outsourcing. >> Yeah. So, it's a it's a difficult hire because 5K is not that much money to play with. Now, chances are if you went from no budget to 5K, you as the individual who probably was making good content has now an understanding of what works, what is fitting for the brand, what kind of world you're trying to build.

And now you have to see it from the perspective of like I'm bringing in somebody who now has like a layer up or a level up of skill sets that I don't have yet, >> right? Or that I'm not willing to uh I'm not willing to develop. And so in that case, you're hiring like a hybrid videographer >> typically, which is hard, right? Like at a 5K, you're like, can you hire a videographer? You can, but you're getting someone young. >> Yeah.

That's why it's important for you to play mentor role for that 5k hybrid meaning they you have to mold them to be multiple roles right and so the thing I'll say here is you you'll mold them to be multiple roles from a pay structure standpoint you need to have incentives in there because they're going to be working 12 hour days they're going to be working 15 hour days >> right I have somebody >> now that that works with me I will be fully transparent like in the same ballpark like annually uh figure but I have there's a lot of incentives for a lot of realistic milestones. >> You know what I'm saying?

So he will end up making, you know, as 21y old probably make 80 to potentially $100,000 if we hit these these milestones if not more than >> so you optimize for find one person to kind of partner with at 5K. >> At 5K at 5K it is about >> you're not going to agency. You're not going to like you're not doing all this other stuff. You need someone locked in. >> I need somebody locked in who's willing to learn with me and who I'm willing to invest in. >> Yeah. who how do I find this person? >> Where I have found a lot of luck is two places.

Either go to a university's like film school. >> So like UT, go to go to their film program and try to like find individuals through there who >> yo those kids have been filming since they were 10 years old. >> Yeah, dude. >> They've also been consuming probably really good content for a very for a very long time, you know, where we did it. The other is if you know somebody who is a good DP typically like a PA or someone or like a personal assistant on a set like a bigger set or an extra or some of those things are sometimes people that just want to be around the thing.

They're not good enough to be a DP yet which is a director of photography. They're not good enough to be that [clears throat] but they're they're good enough and they're trying to prove themselves and they're trying to work up the ladder. And so like you have to figure out where where do where do people hang when they're hungry, you know what I mean? And like that is typically is out of college. Typically it's like they're the the smaller person on a specific set. >> One of the guys on my team um was usually like an extra or PA or like worked on on some bigger sets and never really got like the chance.

Now he's a lead, you know, he's a lead on my team and he's amazing. But like in the last six months he's gone from quite reserved to yo I can be this right and because you have to be willing to invest in him from the as a leader and as a company and then also >> in like you have to give him the more opportunities and chances I give him to prove himself the more confidence he's going to have to say I can do this or I am this. >> Question on this though.

So, I do think that there's people that are hiring, especially for this role. And let's just assume that they're not creative. Let's just assume that like for example, I'm in the space. I don't know many DPS. I don't know like the concept of going to a college that makes a lot of sense to me. I can totally do that. I also might not know how to train them because part of it is like I'm looking for them to tell me. How do I incubate in a healthful way that gives them like the runway without me being the expert? >> Yeah.

So again, if you were spending all the time looking at your analytics, >> Yeah. You're now you basically have the the mental playbook of like this is what works and this is what doesn't and here's what we have found success on. >> Yeah, >> you're right. It is that individual's job to now make things better. But it is my job to say here's the playbook for what's worked so far in the past. >> Yeah. >> You know, I talked with the founder of uh Vintage Modern, which is it used to be Vintage Broncos. >> Okay. >> I don't know if you've ever seen that that page. >> Yeah. and has two million followers, maybe 2 point something million followers. >> Yeah. >> And he's like this like cracked out founder, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

He's like this cracked out founder where he's like, "Yo, everything that we've ever posted, I've done." >> Yeah. >> Everything. He's like, and and he like he's It was so funny. He's like, "Let me just take you on a tour of the of the facility." He gets on a like in a one of those Oh, [ __ ] Like those scooters >> kind of thing. the thing that like Mike Tyson busted his ass on. You know what I'm saying? Like when Mike Tyson got on like busted. >> Um he gets on one of those >> as like a segue thing >> and just starts riding through like the the entire facility showing us everything like look you're seeing a uh Bronco get restored there.

Like I used the I did a hook right here just absolutely cracked. But what he said is like >> I need to take my >> my output to times 10 and I need to do start doing new things. >> Yeah. But I know everything that works for us. So I can at least give you all of the knowledge to say, "Hey, this is what works. Now make it 10 times better because my skill set has run out >> or save my time." >> Yes. And so your job when you bring in this hybrid like this hybrid um cinematographer is to basically say that same thing.

Look, I have all this knowledge of what works, what doesn't work, and what I think can work. But now your job is to say, "Hey, here's how we're going to make this better." You now have the eye that I may not have. Like if I've done everything iPhone, typically I'm operating like two phases, right? Like straight on and maybe overhead. But like with a with a camera, it's like you could get so much better. You add you start adding a gimbal.

It's like you can add so much variation to some of the things that you do. And so and right like you could start leveraging uh captions even as hooks like all of these things that typically >> but for 60k this is a lot of stuff that frankly like we can do we can figure this out >> 100% for 60k you can you can definitely figure this out and the reason I like film school >> um the people that come from film school is when you come from film school you learn everything about cinematography >> right you you have a different understanding of composition. >> Yeah.

What you and I were talking about before is like a lot of these talking head creators talking about how to grow brands online and like saying like brands need to do XYZ brother like most of these brands aren't going to be tuning talking head videos and so you have to understand composition as an as an you know as a one point you have to understand composition and how you could leverage composition as a hook. Yeah. If you don't know, like if you're bringing in a cinematographer that doesn't know the rule of thirds versus one that does and one that could be like, "Yo, Grant, can you stand right there when you do your action because now the whole visual just got 10 times better because of like one small thing." Like that's the individual that I I want.

That person comes out of a film school. That person also could be like could also in a way like help bring in some ops which I know sounds crazy to hear like maybe a 20-year-old bring in ops but if he's like hey this is how I learned to shot list >> and we could bring this into like ClickUp or Notion or you know or >> Millote >> there there's something there as well but your job is to give them as much data and work with them handinand until it's time to let go of that.

Something I love about what you're communicating, it's very interesting because it's it's very different from what I hear from other people in your position and other like social media experts is that you are emphasizing creative aesthetic as an important thing and you're giving a path to that which I think a lot of even business owners or people that are aspiring to be personal brand people, they they want it. They just don't know how to get it.

And what they're being told is, "Hey, instead just go the easier route. do yapping videos, you know, just like get better at communicating on camera. Uh do mock cast, do do formats that are like repeatable and optimized for time because you're doing it by yourself. What you're describing is like, hey, actually, if you want the premier brand, like if you want the aesthetic that everyone else is going to crave, here's the step-by-step build of it, which I think is like I've never encouraged people towards it cuz I think it's so hard, but you're making it sound >> like it's a lot easier than you think.

It's like you just said 5K for a cinemat like I would never think about a videographer. I would think about like a creative director before I think about that. You're just saying like dude hire someone that's like talented at that and then just give them the runway to to direct you. >> 100%. I mean, did you see like some of my New York content? >> Yeah. Yeah, dude. It was gorgeous. >> Okay. Like that's all that was was me teaching him not that he doesn't know rule of thirds, but it's me me teaching him, hey, here's how you're going to start creating vignettes.

Yeah. Yeah. >> It's personal because it's like, hey, I'm working in these contexts. I'm living I got my wife and kid. You like we're just like we're we're chilling. >> Yeah. >> And we're doing we're doing this is our life. But there's a way that we can integrate content and make it aesthetic and make it cool. And you're saying that you're not even the person directing it. No, >> I think it's so rad. That's the coolest thing.

That might be a huge unlock for people that want to be perceived as creative but might not actually feel creative. >> Every 10 seconds can be a story if it's shot interesting. >> I love that. >> An example is probably no two of my favorite shots that he that we published. One, we were inside of iconic magazines in New York and it wasn't I want to be very clear like none of this is me >> going and doing something purely for a shot.

M >> I go into iconic magazines every time I'm in New York to find reference images, right? And to find like magazines that I can pull references from. So I'm literally in there shopping and I think he like took a shot from outside that shows me like reaching for a magazine and like pulling it and starting to look at it and the shot is sick because the whole right side of the of the frame is like just magazines, magazines, magazines, magazines, right?

And then there's a little bit of things in the foreground. I'm like, yo, that's clean. >> Then there was another shot where Actually, we left Iconic magazines. Anytime you put me and Brian, who's my co-host, together, we're shopping. Like, we both love clothes. We love to spend money on clothes and and have bad shopping habits. He was like, "Yo, we got to hit this store." I was like, "Okay, let's say less." Like, it closes a minute.

We hurried over there first. They they said, "Hey, we're closed." We just kept staying by the door. They're like, "All right, you can come in real quick." We get in there. We go to the like there's there's a little uh a little area to shot steps and then another area to shot. I'm not thinking anything of it, but again, I've had these conversations with my with with my cinematographer to be like, "Hey, remember here's everything could be a story if you if you if you shoot it right." >> Yeah.

He gets a an immaculate shot from the top where it's like both pieces of the wood of like the wood um kind of like just like the stairs is going like this and then there's like the background is like all these different shelves and there's like all these different colors from like the store and it's like the and it's just me and Brian like shopping looking at a piece and talking but it looks like we're doing the coolest thing in the world. >> Yeah. we're probably just talking [ __ ] You know what I mean?

Like we're probably not doing anything, but that moment if you're able to shoot it right, you can create that moment >> and you're just raising standards because again like you're this is a this is we're not talking about like >> like I have questions on the conversion ability of this like whether we're majoring in minors trying to be creative but I think at the same time if you're saying like hey you want your brand to be represented as this why not make it the most pristine thing possible.

This is like this is a massive unlock for me because I'm like, "Oh, I shouldn't I I my standards are too low." Like I'm okay with ugly videos and there's like >> I'm not dude. >> Yeah. >> I There's a lot of videos that don't make it out because there there's a lot of vignettes that don't make it out because of like, you know, he uh my sister cinematographer would be the first to admit this. We got in a heated argument when I was at the when we were at the Masters the last day because he's I was like, "Hey, can you pull the vignettes?" And he was honest and he was like, "Hey, I dropped the ball on these vignettes." And he shows them to me and I'm like, "These are terrible.

Like, we did not follow the drill here. Like, you know exactly what we should have shot. Like, we're at the Masters." You know what I mean? Like, we got to get the dopest stuff. We get in a big argument about it. >> Obviously, we solve it. He goes, he comes to New York and regardless is like I had a standard. I could have posted it just to say like boom, I was at the Masters. Let's show these. I didn't post any of them.

There's 20some of them. I didn't post a single one because they didn't meet my standards, which is hard because I'm like there's a social proof aspect built into going to the Masters and working with the brand, right? >> Didn't post a single one of them. These New York ones >> all hit the standard, >> right? And so from a visual perspective, they all met the standard. Now, to touch on what you said from a conversion standpoint, I didn't look at it as conversion content by any means.

You know, I didn't look at it as content that needed to to get me a client. What I wanted is all of you only know me for for having a doing green screen or talking about content. A lot of you probably don't know I'm married. A lot of you probably don't know that I have a a three almost three-year-old. A lot of you don't know that I love to shop. A lot of you don't know what I look like here down. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> A lot of you don't know those things.

These This content is for the people that doesn't know those things. This is content is for the people that >> have only ever heard me talk about content playbooks in art direction and world building and has never seen me hug my wife or, you know, like play with my daughter or travel or walk. >> Yeah. >> It's so there's this idea of content to get followers. >> Yes. >> A lot of us stay in that world. Yeah, >> content for our followers. >> Yeah, >> this content I'm not looking at the analytics from the perspective of I need to make this needs 10 10x the views.

I'm not looking at from that perspective. I'm looking at the comments being >> like is the same. Yes. And is it is like the same person that's commenting on the top of funnel video commenting on [clears throat] this video, >> right? Are they getting more invested in me? So like >> the one that I told you I staged I didn't stage this part. I staged the the again. I didn't even stage. I just told them like, "Hey, take this." I was sitting and like typing on my computer and a lot of people that have been commenting and I've been commenting back were like, "Yo, posture king, like making funny jokes and stuff like that." And I'm like, "Cool, we're going deeper." When someone starts like making jokes and they don't even know you, we're going deeper with that audience. >> You know what I'm saying?

And so that content was purely for the people that want to get to know me and also I can get um or I have the ability to get help them uh get to know me and that was the job of of that content. I wanted you to essentially feel like you were in New York with me for the last 5 days. That was my goal. >> Um and that stems from when we were at the Masters and we had and we were doing this activation for Malpin Home. The biggest thing people were saying online was like, I feel like I'm there.

I feel like there was an open door for me and that I was invited because the way we we approached content. We said, "Hey, we have our top of funnel content. We have all of our content that's made to go viral, that's made to get hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views, but we also have the content that's made to get 20,000 views, but it's supposed to be for the fan base. >> I want to jump to level three, which is $10,000 budget.

We've established you can be beautiful and creative and aesthetic and top of funnel and middlefunnel >> with a budget of 5K by hiring someone that is a is a not a videographer necessarily but a cinematographer or an aspiring cinematographer. What should I care about if I have a budget of 10K? >> Cool. At 10K as a founder, you're still the creative director and you're still kind of the creative strategist. you can start now getting more positions just as a creative director and now kind of start giving the creative strategist role slowly over time let's say during if if you have a ramp up period of like 3 months 6 months over time like putting that towards the the your videographer your lead videographer at 10K the biggest thing that you're doing is just scaling content >> and so all you're adding to like this hybrid videographer hybrid cinematographer role that you have is an editor.

That's the only person that you are you're going to add into the mix here because at this point you have wins under your belt. >> You know what I mean? Like you probably have a few hundred thousand videos. Maybe you have a million view video. If you do, your job is to be like [snorts] >> we need to do this 10 times this month. You know what I mean? We need to be doing this as maintaining the same level of quality. Don't let the bar drop by any means, but now we need to be able to scale the production of these.

If we were making them once a week, once every two weeks, we now need to go twice a week. If it was a series that's been absolutely crushing, but you could only publish once a week, now publish twice, right? And so at 10K, it's all about scaling. It's not about making like >> the the bigger win is increasing the output while maintaining the same quality >> versus from like an aesthetic standpoint >> versus making the aesthetic quality a a bit better. the the volume right there becomes becomes the mo and that really becomes a competitive advantage to be like yo we can go from publishing 15 times a month to 25 times a month right now >> and you should always kind of be in like this 8020 >> 80% scaling what works and making not just scaling what works making 80% better and continue to do like 3% tests and iterations on the 80% that already works well meaning this is a vir rule I bring it over to content vir Ablo says you can make anything novel if you just twist it by 30 3%.

Not 30%. So imagine this like Saratoga water. If I take this Saratoga water and I want to make it completely novel, I can change this top to then be like a cork screw. >> All a sudden it's complet it's a completely different >> it's a like right it's a completely different product. Let's say we're doing it for the sparkling water cuz it makes sense to have like maybe a cork screw because of the bubbles. All of a sudden, it's a completely different product just by adding the corkcrew.

That's a 3% change. And all of a sudden, it's a novel thing. If I change this to a blue cap, it's like, okay, cool. You change the cap. But if I change it to the cork screw >> or to cork, all of a sudden it's it's a completely different product. And so when we think about content, we can think about it through that same lens of, okay, what's what's a 3% ch change that I can make to this concept that makes it absolutely better. that can be.

Hey, we've always started, we've always started our our talking head videos just like like this camera where you are, I'm talking to the to the camera. What if we start with a crash zoom? What if like Grant, you're 25 ft away. We use a 70 to 200. As soon as I start saying start talking, we [ __ ] we we crank the the zoom and then I hit the hook. That's a 3% change that makes the the video seem completely different, right?

And so it's those things that you can start playing around with to say, "Hey, >> this is a great video. What can we do to make it better?" >> At what level though are we majoring in the minors? Like are those details the things that actually matter? Cuz I always thought that conviction and and tam like the total act the actual topic of the video is the most important aspect. You're talking about details that are so creative and so minute, but you're talking about them as if they have such like a dramatic impact on the performance.

But again, like I'm talking about a lot of this from a perspective from a brand where like you're talking about TAM and I'm talking about desire, interest, >> aspiration, things that brands have to lean into to create TAM. >> Yeah. >> You know, like >> the TAM for people that are going to buy candles is extremely high. the TAM that for people that are going to buy my candles is extremely low if I'm a new brand, but the TAM can be exceptionally high if all of a sudden the visuals make it feel like, yo, my house isn't complete until I put this candle on my >> coffee table.

So, it's like we're we're operating from a world of we have to create TAM. The aesthetic matters. How it's shot is matters. Like and and again like us just saying let's throw a crash zoom in there is a thing that's going to add like take an extra 5 minutes. Dude, you >> have you seen a I want to ask cuz like I do you have an example of this? Like an example of someone that's doing this really well? >> Someone that's doing what? >> This really well. >> Yeah, dude.

Like um Shinszo, this is a it's a clothing brand. And what I'll say is like if you want to be absolutely dialed and know what's always going to be working before it works, pay attention to fashion. >> They have to move so fast cuz it's so competitive >> and they always have to figure out like >> clothes is, you know, it is compare clothes to Graza, which is the olive oil brand. Graza is like new. It's innovative. me adding a zipper here and here and like that's my innovation is not very innovative unless you're in fashion, >> right?

So, I have to be so ahead of the curve on like formats and creativity and and concepts that I have to understand how to do everything in a different way. I give you an example of like something that they've that they did and you can do this on a 10K budget, too. So, you know what a lookbook is? >> Mhm. >> Right? It's, "Hey, Grant, can you stand there? Can you stand in front of this psych wall and can you change fits?" Right?

That's level one. I'll have a camera on a tripod. That's level one. What's level five look like with a 10K budget? Level five on a 10K budget says, "Hey, let's rent u a classic car. Let's get a Mustang or whatever. Any kind of classic car. We're going to buy a $40 car mount and we're going to put like let's say let's say this is the the the hood of the car. >> I'm going to be on the passenger side. >> Okay. >> We're have someone driving.

He's not going to be in frame. >> We're going to mount the camera to the side of the car here. Okay. I'm going to be here and I'm going to have the top down. Okay. as the top's down. We're just going to drive through the neighborhood and I'm gonna be like, I'mma do this. I'mma adjust my glasses and every time I do this, I'm gonna match I'mma match cut with a completely different fit on. >> Mhm. >> All of a sudden, I made a again like a very simple video.

I just made it level five >> by where by again what I what I mentioned earlier, the action, the angle, and the aesthetic. M >> the action is we're driving and I'm adjusting. I'm doing like these micro actions like maybe putting my hat on, changing my glasses. The angle is from like the POV of the car. >> The aesthetic is partially the classic car and everything else that's around me. >> Yeah. >> All of a sudden, we turned what is typically a very very boring thing into a viral piece of content.

That con piece of content got hundreds of thousands of views. >> Yeah. >> Right. So we turned something that was inherently very boring into something inherently very interesting. Any product can be done like that. >> Yeah. >> CPA, right? The CPA could be talking while doing that. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> What kind of brand would a CPA have if they're adding that type of aesthetic into what? Like how different would they be from every other brand and every other person? >> 100%.

Now, take it from the angle of like put the put the person that's like going to charge $100 an hour and like maybe put them in a raggedy fit and have them talking and then have that same individual change fits into like a nicer fit and like more professional and be in the car saying his side of it and they could go back and forth like dialogue or >> and it's authority framing. >> Yes. >> Creatively. Yes. >> With something that's very boring. >> Yes. >> But it's just like you have this massive authority frame that's different.

It's like I think of this It sounds like the purple cow theory. >> It is. It's like essentially you're just creating this idea that that no matter what that stands out because of the randomness of it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And because no one else is doing it within the category. >> Yeah. >> You could get so funny and so creative with it, but people only look at the things that are working in their category and be like, hm, how can I make this 1% better >> versus like how can I do something that's 100% better, >> but the fashion brand's doing it?

The skincare brand's doing it. >> How do I do fashion for my industry? >> Yeah. And like when you start operating like that, >> dude, that's so cool. >> It you you can you can do amazing amazing things with a 10k budget. >> Yeah. >> Um and I know that because like I've had to do crazy things for brands on small budgets. >> Greg Hoffman, who's the ex CMO of Nike, used to say the like it's not how big you could think outside the box, it's how big you could think inside the box.

That's where real creativity comes from. That's like when you can stretch 10K to pull off some of the craziest things that you some viral piece of content for the mob and home was us buying a uh a $100 Etsy old phone. I forget what they're called. An old phone and setting it up and basically having a camera in the bushes and having and having a prompt on the the phone that was like call whoever introduced you to golf and say thank you.

And it was such an easy concept but >> emotional but exactly very relatable, very emotional. And people stepped up, they start crying, they started like leaving these voicemails. We rigged up a mic to the to the phone like and and hit it. And then like the camera cameraman Randy was was basically in the bushes and and like the way we framed it as well. Going back to composition was part of the aesthetic. Like we weren't like fully in the bushes but we like if the phone is here, bushes are here.

We shot here so that there's bushes in the foreground. So it looks like we're hiding in the bushes. >> Yeah. >> But it also makes it beautiful. And the comp was like open space for the individual that also plays into the visual layer of that being a good series and a good piece of content but it's a cheap piece of content when we truly think about it. Right. So >> and scalable because you can do so many iterations of that because it's like the difference between each shot even though it's the same shot >> it's a different story each time.

It's a different call each time. So like massively scalable if you have 20 people in there. Yes. It's like that's 20 individual pieces of content from one concept. >> We shot 25 in 3 hours. >> That's incredible. >> One thing I'll say for the 10K budget is a brand that's doing this exceptionally well. Basically saying, "Hey, like we found a concept and a format that works. We're going to continue to iterate and make it better." Is a brand called Everyday Better Club.

Everyday Better Club added 110,000 followers in like 2 months. M >> and they're a um an athletic wear brand. They found a concept that absolutely crushed for them where it was basically those oneshot videos, right? Cuz you could I said it earlier like there's levels to oneshot videos. They did a oneshot video where it was like let's say it's you and me and we're running in the snow and we're like wearing all black basically like you know black uh kind of like uh windbreaker let's say uh quarter tights, black socks, whatever. and we're running in the snow and you just hear like the crunching in the snow like very ASMR focused and then on top it's like you're only as good as your circle, right?

That was all that they were doing and it was like 7 to 10 seconds and it was like that single shot locked off the entire time. That crushed him. One of them got like a few million views and then he was like, "Okay, I'm going to continue making this like 50 million times." And so he made other iterations of it where it was like now four of us are are running together and now we're gonna add five shots instead of one shot and we're going to continuously test.

And he used trial reels to test the different hooks, the different text on screen and then he brought the best ones over and then he posted the best ones. And so >> he grew literally off like >> that and like one other format. 110,000 followers in 3 months. I got on the phone with him and he's like, "Dude, inventory gone." You know what I'm saying? Like absolutely crushed. showing me the analytics. It was like >> 80 or 90 million views in >> a month, 2 months, you know, and it was like the that's the ability of having a videographer and an editor.

It gives you the ability to test and scale. Test and scale ruthlessly, which is what you have to do at that kind of budget. >> I love it. All right, so let's move to the 50k budget. This is big leagues. >> Yeah, this gets more interesting. >> This is like I think I think we just entered in this place. It's inaccessible for a lot of personal brands and you have to be a legit person with legit monetary value to be doing this level. >> Um I'm really curious what your thoughts are on this cuz this is where I think team is really important, structure is really important and you should be optimizing for the founders's time.

You should be optimizing for the person's time especially so in this. So what's different about this level versus the previous ones? >> This is where you truly go into world building. >> Okay. at 10K, at 5K, at um at zero, you're almost starting to build the base for the the you're more so attracting at that stage. You're attracting the right people who eventually want to be in the world that you you you can you can build. >> Yeah. >> But you don't really get into world building.

You can a little bit at 10K. Again, like when we talk about visuals, visuals play into it, but at 50K, everything becomes important. At 50K, you now have a creative director/creative strategist. This person is responsible for worldbuilding. They're responsible for cohesion. They're responsible for how your personality uh exists on Instagram and Tik Tok and YouTube or whatever platforms you're on. this person who is responsible for narrative building which is the most important thing as a as a brand or even as a personal brand to understand which is what narrative do I want to implant in somebody's head and how do I use content to cement it >> that is all about perception it's all about how do I build the the ex like if I named a brand right now that that you know and had you basically like say something about them that is based off probably the content that you consume right if I said which is the 50 50k brand that I'm going to mention.

If I said like BPN and all of a sudden I hear what you say about BPN, that is narrative building. That is world building, right? So you have a creative director/ strategist. >> How much does that person cost? >> It can range. >> It can it can range like 150 to 250. Depends where you live. It depends the type of brand. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> how do I find them? >> You have two angles. You can go and find the individual that's making content about creative directing, right?

And has probably like an extensive background on it. Or you can try to poach from what's a brand that you like, consume their content and want them on your team. >> They need to be established. They can't be built. They need to be they need to be already doing the thing with proof. >> Yeah. Especially at the at at a stage where you're investing, everything kind of exists because of them. Everything that is going to get put into the world is >> they're leading >> based off their vision and their you know they're taking over leadership over >> this and so that person has to have experience you know what I mean so that person's again focused on world building cohesion narrative building now you have to have your lead videographer you could call him a DP um but you have your lead cinematographer and the key thing is this person's vision and taste has to match the creative directors.

That's what's key here. You can't have somebody that's like wants to be tacky and playful and then the creative director is like, "No, we need to be luxury and and and pristine and have those two worlds collide." Because this person has to see this person's vision and ba basically be like, "My taste, my skill set, and my vision match yours >> to say, oh, I can take yours and I can make it reality." Yeah. >> Not put it into my world and how I see >> that sounds like a dream.

Like I think everyone's craving. I talked to a lot of people. They're saying I want my Sam Godette. I want you know like there there's so many people that are saying like I want this person please where can I find this person? Yeah, it and it is difficult what that comes in screening and and basically comes in in how you interview somebody and and how you um one of my favorite questions that Sam Parr would always ask anybody he hired when he hired me is like what do you consume?

If you're telling me like if you're telling me that you consume cartoons and like not cartoons as like in a bad way, but like you're you're juvenile. >> Yeah. And I'm trying to be luxury. Probably not going to match. >> But if you're if you if I ask you like, hey, what what else do you do to like sharpen your skills? And you're like, well, I watch these YouTubers. I read this newsletter. And I'm like, I do, too. Or B, you just put me on. >> We're probably in the same world. >> Yeah.

You know what I mean? And or like it's going to be easy to mold it. You don't have to be one of one. It could be like, "Hey, in 30 days you're going to be like me and think like me, right?" Like Mr. Beast in that giant manifesto or thing that he put out, he was like, "My job is to make you as much of me as possible as possible." >> That whole Yeah. That whole process, >> right? >> And so my job isn't for you to come in and be a direct replicate of me, but it's, hey, I have my vision for my brand. >> Yeah. >> You're you.

Can I get you to still be you with a little bit of meat? You know what I mean? Yeah. >> And so that's how I would I would operate there. And so that's what you're looking for in that lead. Again, I say hybrid cuz this is something we do internally. >> Hybrid means they can shoot, but they can edit. And they're typically the best at setting [clears throat] setting the the vision for the edit. What we do internally is if we're going to hire external editors and or when we bring on editors to the team, our DP is always the one to edit the first variation of a video.

Yo, Randy, I need you to set the tone. >> Set the bar, make it [ __ ] high, and then we can pass it to somebody else, right? >> Yeah. And so that's why we we have that that I always have it as a hybrid because anybody the second you just hand it off, >> the bar is going to be much lower. >> Yeah. >> If you bring anyone that's competitive on and you set the bar extremely high >> y >> and they're coming in as a as an editor, they're like, I need to beat that. >> I need to beat that individual or it needs to be like that or I know I'm going to get rid not ridiculed, but I'm going to be get called out. >> So yo, set the bar very very high.

And I always tell them, I always say just do your damn thing. editor. Same thing. We're talking about scalability here. Now, the two things that that start to become a little bit different are one, you need to be you need to have a a hybrid producer slash set designer, which is hard. So, somebody that has is can get all the because now we're starting to get into like pre-production territory at 50K. You're probably doing campaigns, >> right?

You're probably doing some of these these bigger things. You're probably doing a series. You're probably hiring talent, right? Yeah, >> you're you're you're messing with schedules. You have to have a producer, but you need to have somebody that can assemble the world. >> You don't want to just have a producer like, "Hey, I found a gym in the gym's, you know, like let's take BPN cuz that's who I'm referencing in some cases here is like you don't want someone just be like, "Oh, we found the gym." And you get to the gym and like why are we filming at Crunch Fitness?

This is supposed to feel like like the talent in this is supposed to feel like they haven't made it yet and they're >> they're still living with their parents and they're like living and he lives in the basement and he's trying to make it out and he could feel like on the tip of his tongue that he's about to be successful and break through. Why the hell is he at Crunch Fitness? >> Yeah. >> No, no, no, no. We need to put him at Hide Park Gym, >> right? the the producer and like the set design has to set designer has >> there's no crunch fitness slander in this in this podcast >> not at all not at all but it's like >> crunch fitness is very just like it's just clean right it's like a nice commercial gym it's very colorful >> right there's a lot of logos >> we need grungy >> we need dark >> we need grit >> we need somewhere where there's like some paint missing on the walls we need old power racks we need steel dumbbells these dumbbells don't need to say crunch fitness right >> and so >> that person has to be able to see the vision And now the world >> right now can creative director wants to form in this location.

If they can and or if I have to build a set there, can I? That is who you're you're looking for. Yeah. >> Cuz now your job is to be like, hey, here's a mood board. Here's references. Like go be you. Go be extraordinary and and bring this vision to life. I have someone on my team who is amazing amazing at this um who's taught like has taught me that this is an essential role at this at this uh stage awareness is becoming a more and more expensive game and this is why I even put this this last role in there. >> I would bring in a creator in house >> who is almost like a >> a pseudo faith. >> Yeah, dude.

They're they're going to basically create another account, a se completely separated account dedicated to your top customer. >> In an on the street kind of fashion way. Like what do you mean? >> Let's take who's doing this? Well, >> let's take Martin. Let's say marathon runners are their top customer segment. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We're gonna have a completely dedicated account to marathon runners that is made by a creator who's going to give like maybe nothing but nutritional and training advice on this on this account.

And it's going to be like let's say whiteboard sessions like marathon whiteboard sessions or it's going to be like or you can go street style interview if you wanted to and be like hey this account's dedicated to um training with a marathoner for for a week and making three posts with that marathoner. How do we not how do we derisk from I'm letting them build a brand that's separate from mine and building an audience that's technically separate from mine even though it's associated and then not ultimately wanting to go and just take it and do their own thing because they're building an audience and own the audience. >> Well, at this point that the brand does own the IP here, >> right?

So, yes, you're [clears throat] >> it's commissioned >> like they're going to be on a retainer. They're going to be on a salary to to do this. >> Yeah. Now, the reality is yes, it's it that is could be that's a hard thing to do, right? Like there's this guy from Morning Brew that I think went through a similar situation. His name's David something David Tumi or something to me where like >> very talented creator. He did his own thing.

He worked at Morning Brew. He became big. I think he went and did his own thing. Morning Brew brought him back. The deals have to be lucrative. Yeah. You know, as a creator, you can know like, hey, I'm going to I could be able to do this thing. But a lot of times sometimes it's not always like his was so based on his personality that um it worked for for him. So um yeah it's very dependent but the creator in house separate on a dedicated account huge and can absolutely crush for you like that is you can think about imagine getting 5 million views or 5 million impressions every single every single month in front of your dedicated customer base. >> Yeah.

And then for your growth team, which is like where I'd really we could go deep on. Imagine I have this dedicated account to marathon runners, right? It's getting 5 million views every single month. Okay? If I have my paid team and I have my, you know, I have my growth team. I now have an account dedicated to a single individual that now allows my creative team to say, "Hey, make an entire funnel or funnels dedicated to this segment because these are the only type of people that are consuming this content." Versus a main account, a main account is like probably two to three different customer profiles that are maybe have >> three to four different like pain points each.

So, when we're talking about operating in this world and where the world that like you can really get to and and where I think you should go in when you're talking about 50 to 100,000 uh K budgets where it's awesome to have five accounts. Sounds like a lot of work. It is. But >> the distribution >> and the and like the targeting and like the return on for the when you're spending 100K on organic content, probably spending millions of on ads. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah.

And that allows you to to to basically target your ad your ads to these specific individuals with very targeted uh creative. >> Yeah. >> With content that you know works for that individual. >> You have an entire account dedicated >> to like one individual >> that you now can come over here and be like [ __ ] like we can we can do more and more of this. what you're describing to is so you've you've attached this what I appreciate about what you're saying is we started this talking about creative and now at this higher tier we're talking about data and I think there's a that's the connect that's going to make a lot of sense for a lot of people is saying like ultimately we started with data saying this the analytics and we're ending with data saying ultimately you're looking for impressions that you can retarget on and that's a math that's a math problem you can fix that and you can track that >> yes >> so any advice you have for someone that's looking to do it at the biggest level possible Yes.

And I'll give you one tidbit as well. Everything that I mentioned at zero and even now to 100K stems off the same idea, thesis and principle that the best brands that are getting built today are built off of organic content. >> They're built and every and content is the core. It is the nucleus of these brands. It starts on organic content and it bleeds elsewhere. In the past, growth marketing was seen as multiple skill sets that operated in silos.

You had your copywriter, you had your e your email specialist, your they maybe did SMS, you had their CRO, your designers, you had your paid growth, social, right? And they all operated silos and they're like, "Hey, here's what I did and here's what I did and maybe they don't even talk and maybe one team hates the other." Organic solves that. When you go, "Hm, social's here because culture is here. People's here." And one thing no one talks about, I don't know why they don't talk about it, is if I publish 60 pieces of content a month, meaning like stories, including stories and and in feed. >> What other channel has 60 touch points? >> You know what I'm saying?

Like what other channel has the ability? You're not sending 60 emails. >> People aren't getting hit with 60 ads. People are on your landing page 60 times. So everything everything related to the the perception of a brand should stem from >> organic content and the content you're creating there to provide some form of value to to an individual. And so >> everything that I'm talking about here is talking about leverage organic content as a nucleus of your brand and then build out.

So at 100K and actually at all of these what I'll say is at zero when you're you know you're still sending emails you're still sending SMS you're still building landing pages everything that's working on organic figure out how to put in these have it live in these other areas >> meaning if I'm again we'll go back to Martin if I say five reasons why your marathon your intramarathon nutrition is terrible. It's a terrible copy, but let's just use it as a reference >> and it performs exceptionally well.

And people are in the comments like, "Oh my god, I didn't know like I'm not supposed to do XYZ thing." Don't let that piece of content die there. Now make a listical landing pages listical landing page that's like five reasons why your your your intra nutrition marathon uh is trashed, right? And now it's reason one, reason two, reason three, more in depth. Reason one, reason two, reason three, reason four, reason five.

Three ways to fix it. Product that's going to help you fix it. >> Email five reasons. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. >> Or three reasons. And then for the next two reasons, go to listical. List send you. Right. All of a sudden, your organic content is not just a data point for more organic content. Now your data. It's data for growth. >> It's your top offunnel entry level data point for testing on every single thing >> on everything.

But it's so but it it could be responsible for so much bottom of the funnel too. If that one shot video performs exceptionally well like we talked about like single B-roll with text on screen. If that performs exceptionally well, guess what? It's probably a good headline for your ad. It's probably a good headline for >> your email. >> But going to 100K budget, everything just gets more and more specific. We're talking about where brands are going at the highest level.

They're starting to build their own entertainment studios built into their into their teams or they're hiring entertainment studios. That's why like we have an entertainment studio. We're not just trying to be a content agency. And the reason for that is a lot of these brands are trying to operate like TV networks where, hey, we have dedicated accounts of specific concepts and we're going to scale those concepts. No different than a TV show.

MTV be like, hey, MTV Cribs was banging. We're going to we're going to keep running it. And so you have your creative director, but now you get to expand past and go creative strategist, right? Those are now two different roles. It's not a hybrid role anymore. Now you have a director of photography. You have your lead videographer. Now the things that get a little bit more interesting are you have a screenwriter. >> You have to have a screenwriter in >> You have to have a screenwriter. >> A screenwriter.

Somebody that knows what truly works on TV. >> Am I stealing from that industry? Am I stealing from Am I going to LA and trying to get somebody from LA or Atlanta and saying like, "You got to come." >> Chances are. Yeah. cuz there's not a lot of screenwriters that that understand or can screen write for social. You're probably going to LA and you're teaching them how to how to do it for short. >> It's easier to translate that to this medium versus trying to translate to the other.

Trying to take someone that's social and try to make them more professional. >> All of it is relatively the same. It's like, hey, we need we just need to condense it. >> Um set designer now somebody that's dedicated to building out these worlds at scale. M >> hey I need and they they come at it from a completely different perspective now where like they're probably going to hire PA to help them personal assistants to help them where it's like hey this is the world that I need to build and they're almost setting the tone and the vision and like then making sure that they get it right and then you have to have a producer that could could handle all of the the logistics at 100k you just get ultra specific with your roles >> right and it you kind of lose a little bit of the hybridness it doesn't mean that they don't have other talents.

It just means >> you're 10 to 10 out of doing this. >> I don't want you spending your time on what you're 5 out of 10 at or 7 out of 10 at. I want you being 10 out of 10. Cuz there's certain people that when they're 10 out of 10 at what they do, it's not a 1x multiple, it's not a 10x multiple, it's a 100x multiple. >> Yeah. >> Right. And so when you have those people, you and I think Sam says this as well, like do everything possible to get them on the bus. >> Yeah. >> And then once they're on the bus, let them drive their bus. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean?

And so at 100K, all that really changes is getting more specific and getting the skill sets in the in the right position that they need to be able to do the thing that they're exceptionally good at. >> You do that at 100K, you can move entirely different. And then >> the last person that I would I would have on here that I don't think people talk about, and I I talked about this with JT Barnett, is you need to have an analyst. an analyst that understands growth marketing.

That analyst is going to look at every single piece of content that you're making on every platform. >> Yeah. >> And go to every other team >> on the growth side and say, "Hey, here's what's working here. Here's how we can test it here. >> Here's how we're doing. Here's the the listical video that worked here. Here's how we need to bring it to email. Here's the all the the text headlines that worked here. Hey, add team >> and they bridge the gap >> and they take and they stop these teams from operating silos.

So many teams get stuck at these growth ceilings because they operate in silos and no one no one talks, no one communicates, no one pulls d like everything that we're doing, everything that's responsible that that somebody's responsible for on the growth side is based off of data. >> The fact that [clears throat] we don't share that data with each other to make better decisions >> is crazy. We rather waste and spend more money than share data. >> You're tripping. so good.

And I think like again like I I what I don't want is for people to think about some of this. There's an aspect of that's overwhelming. There's simple aspects of things that like they see just the call out to be like, hey, don't try to be 3% better. Try to get 10x better and this thing is going to be the thing that gets you 10x better. >> I love that thought process because like we I think about like testing and iterating on minute stuff and thinking about distribution.

Like I'm a big distribution guy and that's everything we've optimized for. But like when you think about taste, I mean I'm restructuring um a podcast right now uh for somebody and and taking him from like one aesthetic to a completely different aesthetic. And what you're describing is like, "Oh, I don't I should just go much more aggressive on cinematography when I didn't think it was as as important." I was like, "Oh, if we just get a little bit more like a little bit better, it's going to be great." No, if we get dramatically better, it's going to change the entire format of how people perceive them, which I think is like that's a big unlock for me and I really appreciate it.

So, um, how can people support you? >> Um, if you want to follow me, follow kind of what I'm doing. House of AG. So, house of.ag. Um, House of Distribution is is [clears throat] my agency if you want a creative team in the house. Um, and that's that's >> sick, dude. >> That's basically >> Sweat Equity podcast. >> Sweat equity podcast. Yeah, I should have shouted out sweat equity. Sweat equity as as well. It's our podcast.

It should feel like you're in the middle of a creative brainstormtorm session anytime uh Brian and I talk. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Dude, I love it. You're the best, dude. Thank you for this. I appreciate you having me. >> Yeah. Thanks, dude.