Fashionphile's 27 Year Journey To $400M transcript

When Meaghan Bogle comes to you and says, "This is a founder and this is a business that you need to know about." I listen because Meaghan is a really smart guy and that's what he said to me about Sarah Davis and Fashion File. I feel a little embarrassed this is a business that I hadn't seen that much about myself before, probably because I am not the core customer for Fashion File, but holy cow is it a monster. Fashion File's over $400 founded in 1999 by Sarah Davis and today on the show I have Sarah talking about the journey to $400 freaking million and how she got there, what she's focused on and what they're going to do next to keep growing and to keep building an amazing business.

Incredible Profit Monsters episode here of the show and an incredible story that you're going to like a lot. Let's learn from Sarah Davis and Fashion File. >> [music] >> Hi Sarah, how are you? >> So good. So good to be here. Thank you for having me. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's absolutely my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time to do this. You are a little Tell us about For the people who are watching right now and or or even just hearing the sounds in the background, tell us about the building behind you so that people can understand what's happening.

Might be a good way to think about what your business is. >> This is our authentication center in in Carlsbad, so North County, San Diego. Um this is where I work every day. We have an authentication center in LA, one in New York City. It's actually in New York City. 60,000 square feet in Chelsea. So if you're in New York, you should stop by. We're open to the public. Open to the public in all of our authentication centers, which is kind of different.

Our distribution centers were open to the public. And we'd love to have you here. So um So yeah, that's where I am right now. >> This is a good lead-in for people who don't know Fashion File to describe what the business is because listen, I talk to a lot of operators and most of them, in fact I think none of them I've ever talked to have something called an authentication center. So tell people a little bit about what Fashion File is and uh why you have three authentication centers including a 60,000 square foot one in Chelsea. >> Yeah, so we have two customers, which is really a challenge um in the resale business.

You have the sellers who are selling us all of their beautiful Gucci backpacks and Hermes Birkins and Rolex Submariners. Um and then we have the buyers who are buying those things. And so, you know, we really do focus on both those customers, but part of our job we can't operate out of a 3PL part a big part of our business is like not only receiving those items and checking them out for quality, making sure we've like properly identified and all all the all that, but also with the authentication piece, which is of primary importance.

And so, every single day it all of our authentication centers, basically if you're, you know, east of the Mississippi, your stuff is going to go if you if you upload some pictures of your Gucci backpack using our app or website, um we're going to give you we're going to take a look at it. We're going to properly identify it cuz you may be called it a backpack. We need to know that that is the, you know, signature it's a Dodgers edition cuz of the blue zipper whatever.

We need to identify it properly and then so we can give it a the right price. And then we're going to ship that to if it's east of the Mississippi, we'll ship it to our authentication center in New York. If it's west, it's going to go to San Diego or LA. Um we actually have just bought a small business in London. So we have a small center in London now. Um super excited about that business and we've operated out of Tokyo for almost 9 years.

So, you know, kind of all over and then we have stores all through the US. But um in these this is a, you know, distribution centers. So people back here you're authenticating, you're you're packing, you're shipping um all those things, but also what we found is that we have an authentication center, um people around when we're when you're, you know, submitted that your photos for that backpack and we gave you the quote, people around us say, "Hey, you know, I'd love to, you know, drop it off.

I see that you're here. Like I don't have packing tape. I don't I [laughter] some like a box or like a printer for the label. And so we're like, "Hey, come on come on down." And every single day we've we run an incredible business out of just a little shop in the front of our authentication center. And so we do that in every single one and it's a big part of our business. Our customers absolutely love it. Like if think about your favorite brand, how cool it would be to go to to if they opened up their distribution center to you >> and gave you a little glimpse of it.

Our customers absolutely adore it. Um so they come down and so we do a meaningful amount of the business. We, you know, did about almost $20 million of sales in the back of an industrial park in Carlsbad last year in this little store alone. >> Yeah. >> Um so it's a very, you know, it's a it's good for the customer and it's good for us. >> Hey you watching or listening to this episode of the Intertwined Podcast. You should subscribe.

Like right now. Subscribe. Wherever you're watching or listening, hit that like button. Leave a comment. I read and respond to every comment that somebody gives me. So please do that. Ask your questions. I'd love to hear them. But you know, what to do? Subscribe. It helps me. It helps you. If you like this content, you'll like more of it. It's a really cool experience for the customer. I mean I feel this when I go see like a much more boring e-commerce business than what you were describing in your business.

Like you're talking about like the luxury of luxury goods >> Yeah. >> center. And that's just really cool, right? I I get this feeling when I go to the to much more boring e-commerce business warehouses. It's just cool to see their operations. It's cool to see stuff somewhere that is happening. I don't know. There's something part of what I think I like about e-commerce is like you're selling actual things to people, you know?

So the idea that your customers who probably I mean the kind of customer you're dealing with, right? Is somebody who's selling or buying I I you It's correct me if this is wrong, right? But like what I would call high fashion to some degree, right? Like or like at least maybe luxury is the right word. >> We call it ultra luxury. >> It's ultra Yeah, ultra luxury cuz it's really the tippy tippy top cream of the crop. Um, only those top brands.

And so we sell a very limited number brands, but you're totally right. Like actually one of the kind of ideas behind this is I lived for a while up in the Bay Area and would go to the Jelly Belly Factory. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. I I I've ever been to the Jelly Belly Factory, but I'm like not even a big fan of Jelly Bellies because like you have to eat them one at a time. You don't want to mix the mint with the licorice or the cherry.

It'll taste weird. So if you kind of pace yourself, it's not wasn't my favorite. But I went to the Jelly Belly Factory and they have like the original copper tin that like Mama Jelly Belly like stirred the sugar in back in the day, whatever. You walk through the factory, they make you put on a plas- like a a hairnet. You don't need a hairnet. Like you're not anywhere. But you feel like you're on the floor of the factory, you know what I mean?

And then you leave that place and like you're just like I like it changed my vision of Jelly Belly. I've had like a soft spot in my heart for Jelly Belly ever since. >> Huh. >> And so we love like inviting people here and having them have a little glimpse of what we do. You can get a little glimpse. We've found a a secure way to give yourself kind of a self-guided tour in our flagship so you can come, you can kind of eyeball, you know, what's going on behind the scenes.

You can you can look back a house. We have little view spots where you can actually like see the cage where right there in the back here. This is like $40 million of inventory sitting you know, like a ton of inventory. And you can you can actually get a glimpse of it um, when you come in. We have little spots in every authentication center where the customers like welcomed into our space. They love it. They tell their friends. >> Yeah, of course.

Yeah, I mean and like I said like in in the uh ultra luxury kind of world, it's a it's it's not a utility, right? Like it's it's a passion for people. It's something that they're excited about and and that they do uh >> They're they're they're because it's fun. Absolutely. >> Yeah, you even yeah, I mean on your about page you talk about this idea that it's just it's just fun. Like I guess a fun part of life and you recognize that that's a big part of like what you are doing.

It's just It's just a It's like a fun kind of pursuit for people who are really into >> Exactly. >> know luxury goods. So, the idea that they would have that experience makes perfect sense to me. It's just like seeing all of that stuff everywhere. >> We're literally like down the street from like Callaway and like all these, you know, just literally an industrial park. But, we're also like a girls' trip destination. Like people go, "Okay, we're going to San Diego.

What are we doing? Here's the top three things we're going to go. We're going to go to the beach. We're going to go to And it's just so we've been able to create this experience for our customers that they love. >> Um do you uh tell me a little bit more So, so let's just walk through what the business is for those who don't know it. So, so the core of the business, right, is re- is you know, you call it re-commerce on your website, reselling uh ultra luxury brands to in the fashion space, basically, right?

Like that is Is there any other way that you would want to describe what you guys do? >> Yeah, we buy and sell ultra luxury accessories. That's what we do. So, and and again, that like distinction, the fact I always try to reiterate to people because it's like you you probably talk to people every single day. You people are listening every single day and they have vendors. They're buying from manufacturers. >> yeah, yeah. >> You know, or they're manufacturing, which is also very cool.

But, we are not doing that. We Our Our literal Our vendors are like individual people. You and your friends, like people listening. Um every single thing that we buy is we are buying a one-off of that. And so, every single SKU we have, you know, if we have 40,000 SKUs, it's like every single SKU is individual. Even if there's two 81% of our inventory is unique, but even if there's two like identical styles, this one has like a lipstick mark on the inside, this one is in almost pristine condition, this one has got like a broken, you know, end of the zipper pull or something like that.

They can be distinguished. And And so, one of them is is close to retail. It's actually not getting that much of a discount, but it's not available online or the store doesn't the brand doesn't sell online, which in our world that's a thing. Um or you're looking for a screaming deal and we've got it for 80% off cuz it's got some damage. >> Everything about your business would run more efficiently if one thing changed and that is you had a better, more efficient supply chain.

Now, that's cheating a little bit because there's a lot of stuff that goes into a more efficient supply chain. It sounds really good to say, [music] you know, things would work a lot better if you had cheaper cogs or faster turnaround times with your suppliers or if you had better payment terms or if you had lower MOQs or whatever it is, right? It all sounds really nice in theory, but the problem is even though that all shows up in one place on your P&L, uh you know, which is your COGS line item on your P&L, there's actually a lot of things to do to make those things happen. >> [music] >> And yet, it would be so valuable cuz it would make such a big impact on your business.

You would cash flow better, you you'd have a better straight-up net profit on the P&L level, and your life would just be a lot easier and smoother and de-risked if your supply chain worked better. Well, Move Supply Chain is the answer to this problem. You can actually get a better, more efficient supply chain that produces more cash in your business and reduces risk in your business, makes new product development easier, all those things.

You can do all that without having to go spend huge and ridiculous amounts of hours chasing down suppliers and sampling endlessly and all those things. You can do it with Move because Move is a supply chain agency just like there are email agencies and ad agencies and all the rest. Move is a supply chain agency and wonderfully they are made they're built in the Philippines. [music] So, Move is staffed by people and run by people who have long and deep experience building US-based e-commerce supply chain.

So, they understand this world really well, including all the details of logistics and 3PLs and shipping and and all that part of your supply chain because they've worked in e-commerce for a long time. But, the beauty of them being in the in the Philippines is twofold. First, not only do they have all of that supply chain expertise, but they can do that at a level that's affordable for [music] you. Uh just the reality is your dollars go really, really far in getting great talent working on your team in the Philippines.

And so Move Supply Chain built their team there. But secondly, if your supply chain is based in Asia anywhere, particularly China, Vietnam, or whatever, that's like an hour and a half flight from the Philippines, requires very little [music] in the way of visa, etc. It's really easy for people in the Philippines to get to and from suppliers there very multiple times a year, and they can be doing that, negotiating deals, and representing your brand for you as part of your team, as an extension of your [music] team, to go do all the things that make your supply chain better without you getting on like, you know, a 20-hour flight to China.

So, go check it out today. If you think your business can work better if if you haven't shopped a lot of suppliers, a lot of vendors, if you are, [music] you know, only if you only have one vendor in your business, if you're growing and you think your cog should be cheaper or something like that, they probably should be and you can probably save a bunch of money by doing that. Just get on a call with Move. Go to movesupplychain.com.

Tell them I sent you. And and see, tell them about your supply chain and see like are there real opportunities for savings? Is it Is it possible for you to to get faster turnaround times, all those things? I bet there is if you haven't efforted this seriously, uh Move can do it for you. They have knowledge, they have expertise, and they can bring it to your business. movesupplychain.com. I would like to hear a little bit about your relationship to the customer then in this case.

And let's break it down into two customers. You mentioned this a second ago. Um you know, I I want to get into the story a little bit and sort of how you guys made it from 1999 today in 20 26, almost 30 years, up to $400 million. I love that story. I love the idea that you are not an overnight explosion. I mean, that's still very fast and very impressive growth, don't get me wrong. >> Not really. >> No, it is. It is.

It's still really good. Don't don't And 400 million is >> 27 years. >> 27 years, but 400 is a big number. So, >> It's a big number. It's a big number. >> So, okay. So, I also just want to hear before we going to go down the road of the of the story, I want to hear sort of how you're focusing now, and how you're thinking about customers, because as we were talking earlier, this was like this is where sort of your mind seemed to go right away.

It's like the thing that matters to us is like how we service these customers. So, um there there's sort of an obvious thing here with the buyer, the customer who's buying from you, which is like there's like you said, maybe a screaming deal or or just sort of making ultra luxury accessories a little bit more accessible or whatever it is, it's some selection that can that it can all be shady in the ultra luxury world, whatever, but um but I'm actually really interested to hear you talk more about the selling side.

So, how to to generate that much revenue and to hit the numbers you talked about, you have to be attracting a whole lot of pre-owned products, right? So, talk talk to me a little bit about your relationship with that customer, what you're doing to attract those people, and and why does your business work so well to get those people to come to you? How are you a magnet for these products the way you are? >> Right. And the truth is is that like to be growing, you have to be always like acquiring a little more inventory than you're selling at any time.

And so, it's like really really think about it, people all the time is like, "Oh, I've got a cousin who's starting a business." Like I've heard this like literally a thousand times. And quite frankly, the truth is today is that you know, our world of resale is very competitive. There's a there's so many thousands of of side hustlers up to private equity backed, you know, public companies doing what we're doing at this point.

So, it started out back in 1999, there was nobody doing it. It was me and eBay. I started selling on eBay, and there were literally there was literally no competition. And our first like real competition was when The RealReal came about in 2014, something like that. So, we literally had like 15 years to exist. I heard a very cool story from Jeff Bezos when he's talking about he's talking about building AWS, and like kind of that that what went behind that.

And he said, "Really, when he looked back at it, the thing that it most interesting is that they had no competition. Nobody else was doing it. It's kind of like white space and how different that is to build in an environment you know, where I'm talking to entrepreneurs today and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, yeah, you couldn't do this thing that we did because we had no competition. Today, there's 15 people trying to do exactly what you're doing.

It's hardly [clears throat] anything that's truly unique. It's more can you execute on that thing that other people that is very hard." Um and so, you know, that was not true when I started the business. There was no competition. There was nobody doing it. And I think part of it is cuz at the time it was like resale when I grew up was not something to be proud of. It was I shopped resale cuz I had no money. I shopped resale cuz I wanted a deal.

And so, if people said, "Oh my gosh, I love your shirt." I wouldn't say "Oh, thanks. I bought it at Goodwill or a consignment shop." I'd say, "Oh, thank you. You know, it's Chanel or whatever." I wouldn't you know, and today, it's totally bragging right. My kids all love and Gen Z's very, very into resale. My kids only shop at like, you know, at literal Salvation Army, Goodwill, little thrifts, you know, around Second Street, whatever.

And um and it's a bragging right. They'd almost be embarrassed to buy it whole you know, it's like you didn't get that I could have got you could I could have got that for 20% of that, you know, like um and so, it's like a more cool thing today, but back when I started, it wasn't. And so, I think that there wasn't a lot of there weren't a lot of people who were like trying to give it a go cuz it just seemed like not the cool space to be growing in.

I mean, obviously in the early earliest of days to you know, we talk about how like things have changed so much and everything is advancing every single every 6 months things advance now. But like in those early days in 1999, you couldn't process a credit card on the internet. >> Yeah, right. >> That's the I people were mailing you physical checks. This is This is we [laughter] It's not a long time ago. It's a long time ago.

It's a lifetime ago. Um you know, and so, it's just you know, so just growing over time the thing that we've realized is that people always we we sell things that everybody wants. >> Yeah. >> We have a 100% sell-through. Nothing there's no good there's no Gucci bag that if there's a Gucci bag we have that has a slice in the back we get the price right someone's going to buy it and repair it. You know, like there's there's brand value in every single thing we sell so there's no such thing as like something that just is beyond sale.

We'll just discount it and it'll sell. We have a a section of our of our website called flawed. wildly popular because the DIY the DIY people out there are all like yeah, you know, like I'll buy it, you know, and repair it. >> Yeah. >> Um and so for us it's like it's that world where um when you sell things that are like that everybody wants then what's the hard thing? Getting that stuff. That's why it goes back to the seller.

It's like it's not hard to sell a Gucci backpack on the internet. People want it. Throw it up on TikTok shop. It's gone right now. So you know, like and so but it's put it on eBay, put it on Poshmark, put up a shop at I store. You can sell that thing. You can sell in your town. How do you get more of those? How do you get more authentic luxury items at a price that you can make money on? That's the hard part and >> What what's the actual answer to that question?

So like I mean is is part of this just that you guys got to it early enough and became a known enough commodity that you were able to do this that people sort of over time you build that you build the ability to do this or is there something you guys are doing that's really helping maintain this despite that you know, eBay exists or whatever. >> Yeah, I will say that I wish that I could say that we are just have retained all of our sellers from day one and that that and that we've just like cuz I would love it if we you know, we were constantly working on how do you retain these customers?

Like how do you keep them coming back? Part of the problem is that you know, if you're thinking about the things that you own right now that we might be able to buy, you have a couple things, but it's like very few people have like an entire like wardrobe of things they're constantly circulating in our category. It's like most Americans will have a bag or two or what something they might be interested in selling and then maybe they're not interested in selling anything for a couple more years.

And the truth is is that on average we sell 1.1 I one items to a person a year. And it's not there's not real you know, for most people just the affordability aspect is limiting for people. Our average selling price is $2,000. So it's like how much of that we can we tempt you? And if you're like smart with your money and you're like saying you're not just going to you know, you're you're going to buy within your budget and maybe that's one luxury item a year.

Um, you know, maybe it's one luxury item every couple years. These items I have bags that I've got right now that I've had for 10 15 years and I still love them. They're still in great shape and you know, they're you would never be able to tell by looking at them because they're made to have a long life. Um and so it's like but for us it's constantly acquiring customers. It's like yes, we want to be good to that customer.

We hope to keep them around. We've got some sellers we've had for since the beginning. It's like amazing. >> Yeah, right. >> You know, and I'm so happy about that. But but and largely we just hope that they'll also tell their friends. Like we hope that if if if we've got a seller who loves us and she's going to use us every couple years because she doesn't have the money to buy so you know, so much all the time. The number one people reason people shop resale is affordability. >> Yeah. >> we've got some very wealthy people who buy from us because we've got something you can get no other way. >> Yeah. >> The vast majority of the units that we sell every day are to people looking for a deal.

That person may not have a lot to sell us every year, but she's got friends. So, like we hope that she does well. >> What percentage of your buyers also sell? >> It's a actually we have a 13% crossover between our sellers and our buyers, which is remarkably low. And we're constantly trying to convince our our sellers to become buyers because we have another little interesting issue where we our sellers are older, they're more wealthy, and um and some of them just love to shop at Chanel.

They love to shop at Neiman Marcus. Neiman Marcus was our was our first investor. And they love to shop the luxury brands and they just don't have room in their closet you know, for And so And so they're not actually really interested in buying resale. They might want an Hermes surfboard to go over their desk at work. >> Yeah. >> buy or something, you know, or something, you know, an an a vintage Louis Vuitton trunk for their living room.

Like they might be interested in that, but they're actually shop in the primary market and they've got sales associates and like all kinds of benefits for doing that. And we can try to lure them here and there into shopping resale, but they're primarily a primary market shopper and they sell through us and that's fine, too. We need all of the new really really interesting like hot off the runway inventory, too, and you get that from that kind of seller. >> Yeah.

I mean, because what I was actually thinking while you were talking about this was what you said earlier, which is for a certain generation resale is a badge of honor. For another, it's like a badge of shame, you know? And so the idea that you would have a real difference in your sellers and your buyers there where your sellers are the people who are maybe going like, yeah, you said they're older, right? That's people who maybe have a different association with resale and who really wants to experience the sort of exclusivity of buying primary and and all those things.

So, for them maybe it's like it's really important that they that they have a different relationship to you. Whereas maybe for that reseller they're or actually for your for your buyers, they're like, "No, we we just want the product and we care about the brand. I don't really care if I bought it first because you know, obviously the exclusivity is such an important part of you know, the luxury environment and sort of like you said, there's sales reps and there's things that famously, right?

You can't even get into certain stores or whatever it is. So, that whole experience is very purposely part of these luxury brands and the idea that like somebody would want to go buy primary there and then not be interested in your sort of the the wide availability of your products makes sense to me. Like they're attracted to something really different, you know? >> Totally. And it's actually really interesting cuz like I said, my kids and like Gen Z loves it, brags about it, almost embarrassed to shop primary cuz they think you are not smart.

We could have got a better deal on that, you know? Um and sustainability, all the things. And then you've got the sellers who are largely a different generation and then maybe a different thought about resale and honestly don't want to be seen standing at a counter hawking their goods like they're at a pawn shop. And so we create a very luxury experience. These people are driving into the back of an industrial park in Carlsbad.

Go Google Map our location. It's gorgeous. The building is incredible. It like has a big Hollywood sign in the front that like looks it says Fashion Vault and it's a big, you know, massive like on this grassy knoll. It's so cute. >> Yeah. >> And you like wind around this industrial park and then you see you're like, "Where am I? Am I lost?" And then you see our building and you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is incredible." And we've got like it's like Fort Knox.

We've got like 24-hour guards all over the place and it's a really And you walk into the front door and that you're transformed. You're out of an industrial park and then there's luxury showroom and it's very private. You're having these meetings with, you know, folks and you're going to sell your stuff and it's not a big public thing. I mean, the our, you know, we're we're serving the top 1 2%. Um especially on the seller side and we we, you know, we um sell to many of them as well as they're shopping for Birkins and things you can't get other ways, but um you know, our sellers just don't want They just want to be paid fast and fair, you know?

And they don't necessarily want to freaking walk into a necessarily want to walk always into a public area and do that. And so we have kind of a more private experience. >> I think you said something interesting there, Sarah, which is that that possibly some of these sellers really don't want to be seen selling to you for a bunch of reasons. And I it actually even makes me wonder about something I've I've known, you know, I live in LA like I've been around plenty of very wealthy people.

And one of the things I know, I live very close to an extremely wealthy community uh in in the LA suburbs. And uh I I don't live in that extremely wealthy community, but [laughter] relatively close to it. Um and uh and one of the things I know that's sort of the reputation of of um of that place is that, you know, there's there's stories of people who are like actually really struggling financially and are doing everything they can to not uh show that to people.

And I and I even wonder if part of what's happening for some of your sellers is like they need to generate some cash and they are selling expensive and valuable things to you and do not want to show people that. Like that's maybe a little negative and cynical, I don't know, but but yeah. >> not I mean, it's not negative or cynical. Honestly, it's reality. Like I tell people we we had during the last economic downturn, like we were we were around for a couple of sessions because we've been around for a long time.

And so people always like, how are how are folks respond in a macro environment that is struggling? And um you know, we know that like during the last economic downturn, there was a woman who like she got in a really bad place. She got upside down. She was in the real estate business. She actually owned, I believe, a mortgage company, something like that. And she had to make payroll. And she's like, "Listen, I got a bunch of stuff, like too much stuff to bring in.

Could you come down to my house and like send somebody down. And um actually Ben, my partner, like drove out to Palm Desert and we wrote her check like $150,000 and it like made the difference. I'm like, there's a lot of things she could have spent money on that she did not have that didn't do that for her, you know, where and we kind of say tongue in cheek, you know, oh, these are investment bags. They absolutely are.

They absolutely go up in value over time or keep some of their value. If you keep them long enough, they're going to you're going to keep all of your value. And so there's just a lot >> That's interesting. >> There's so many things you can buy that if things get tough, you've got nothing, you know, and um and they depreciate when you drive them off the lot, they just go to nothing. And that is just not true in everything we sell.

Um and so we've we've been that for so many people that will have, you know, they're literally there was a I can't remember celebrity who recently was talking about going through a divorce and she was talking about how like, oh yeah, she's just going to sell some Chanel bags. Like it's absolutely true that that's something something you can do. Um and I and so I just think it's actually not a It's a it's actually a decent place to put your cash. >> Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's a very fascinating thing to me in general. Uh you know, I think a lot of us in the e-com space have just been around a lot of e-com operators who are like, I'll never run a sale cuz I want my brands to be premium or whatever. And what and the and part of the logic for that is that they've all heard stories about how premium brands don't run sales or whatever. But like I sometimes look at them and say like, you are not even beginning to understand what premium really means.

Uh like your your price is $70 or something. Like you can run a sale, it's okay. What I was going to say about premium brands, there's a reason LVMH is out there trying to scoop up every one of these legacy brands that they possibly can and it's because like what they have realized is that the brand name and the brand value is like the most defensible, most valuable thing in the world. And And one of the things that strikes me about your business is that you have made it as far as you've made it in part because of what you said earlier, which is you're selling something everybody wants.

Like being able to find a place where you can actually without being the person who starts the ultra the super luxury brand yourself, but where you can capitalize on the basically incessant demand for those premium brands. Now, you can correct me if I'm wrong about any of my assessment of this of this space, by the way. But But your your your of the ability to find a place where you can play in that space to where what you have, like you said, like everybody wants, um I think is is just very interesting because cuz like I said, it's it's it's quite difficult to go start and build that brand yourself.

It's a many many many many year process and and all these things. But the idea that you can play in that is is interesting. So, can you take me back a little bit to sort of the genesis of uh Fashion Files sort of Was this a calculated thing where you're like I I really want to play in the luxury goods or is it like how how did this how did this start? And then I want to walk through a little bit of sort of the inflection points of the business from there.

So, so give me some sense of sort of the the basic proposition of the of the brand. >> I mean, I think I've heard other people tell the same story where it's just like these are I'm I'm selling things that I always wanted and couldn't afford. And so, if you get in the business, now I can afford it. You know what I mean? Like I can I could buy a Louis Vuitton bag in the early days and carry it for 3 months and then just sell it, you know?

And then I could buy afford that thing that I always wanted. I always wanted nice things. Um you know, and but in the early days, people are like, "How did you come up with this idea?" I'm like, "It was so obvious." I was like shocked that nobody else was doing it in the early days. Now, it's such a good idea that there's literally like more competitors than you can imagine. Literally thousands of people running the side hustles up to mom-and-pop consignment shops and pawn shops and everybody selling the things we're selling as well as many publicly traded and you know, private equity backed large scale competitors.

And so, but in the early days it was like this is so obvious and you know, I loved this this product. Like I'd love to be able to be in that business. That's so cool. Um and it's just I it was profitable profitable from day one. Like I had started many many businesses in my life not trying to start a startup but like literally just like I had no money. And so I started things. I did things to try to make money which was me starting my own little side hustles, you know, over time many of them just cuz if I don't know if you've ever talked to somebody who's like the way that I compare it is like I'm like the when you if you've ever gone into Mexico and there's little girls selling you chiclets, like that was me growing up.

And nobody when I was growing up was like, "Oh, look at you little entrepreneur." They're like, "Get out of here with your chiclets." Like what are you trying to do? It's not like I was not It wasn't cute or like It was like me trying to make money. You know what I mean? Like And so um but what's cool about that trying so many businesses and doing little things. I'm making money. I'm like paying my rent by like these weird things that I'm doing, you know.

It's all None of it is None of it is It's like you know, I bought a pair of clippers when I was in college for like $10 from there's a store called Shopko. And I opened up shops cutting hair in the boys dorms. I never went to hair school. >> [laughter] >> But I'm like what I'm saying is these are not sexy businesses. These are just like me trying to make money to pay my bills. >> Great businesses care deeply about driving profit everywhere that they interact with customers >> [music] >> and they do that by providing value to customers.

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Go check it out today. I just love this though because like I have been around a lot of people like you because I've because I'm in the entrepreneur space and you have entrepreneur clients. And one of the things I like I've, you know, founded my agency and yet I always say like I am not I am not the true entrepreneur like this. Like I I've just I've heard this story a lot of times of like what however you assess it, you said it wasn't cute or whatever.

It's like yeah, maybe, but like I just know there's people who Yeah, and also people just they have this idea cuz you say it's a necessity, but you like maybe could have tried to go get a job somewhere, but your your solution to the problem instead was like I'm going to go I'm going to go buy a $10 pair of clippers and cut hair myself. And I there's something about that that I love and I I just think is is part of the way that you end up starting a business like this that gets as big as it does over a long enough even even the even like if when I hear a 27-year journey, it's like I just know for sure there were some low moments in that road, right?

So like the ability to push through those is partly I think the same muscle as the person who's just like I don't know, I'm just going to figure it out. I'm going to start a business, you know. >> Yeah. Well, and part of it too is just that if you have known you know, you know people like that I don't know and I I honestly feel a lot of gratitude. It's so strange and I've talked about this before, but like that like maybe when I was in high school, the things that actually I was kind of embarrassed about and that maybe I was had a little shame around like the fact that I was shopping at thrift stores and I was not telling people and the fact that I didn't have money and so I'm like doing these little side hustles to make money so I can buy my own clothes.

Those things are the things that did all this. It's pretty cool, you know, because I don't I don't know that if I had parents who took me to a Nordstrom to buy school clothes every year that I would have developed that muscle. I don't know that I was born an entrepreneur. I don't know that I wasn't born I'm like I want this stuff. I can't get it. Okay, I'm going to find a way to get it. And I you know, chicken and egg, I don't know.

Some something in there I developed the muscle over time, but what is actually really cool is all those crappy like dirty you know, just ways to make money. When I started Fashion File, it felt so different. And this is what felt different is that the demand was palatable. Like I could palpable. It's not palatable, it's also palatable. Palpable. Like I could feel the difference between what it felt like when you're doing something where you're you're you're solving for something people really want.

It's like a push from behind. We talk about product market fit. It's like It's actually a push. Like I can't satisfy the demand of what people want here. That feels so different than me like dragging a wagon to a parade and selling soda to people. It's hot, you know, where it's like I'm selling it. I'm selling it, but people don't really want it. They'll buy it cuz they appreciate the hustle, but they don't really need it, you know? >> I don't know, people really want soda.

Those are big companies that sell that stuff. >> you kidding me? It's hot. I was in Houston, Texas. You kidding me? It's demand is high. I give myself a lot of credit for that one. >> Yeah, I actually think there may be more overlap in the stories than you're than you're assuming, you know? But and it's funny though because it actually Yeah, in fact in fact I think it might be exactly counter to the point that you're making because because I think there's a thing here where it's like there's just something about the instinct to go Even haircuts, it's like I don't know, people just need haircuts.

And if you made a way to make it more affordable and more accessible for them, they probably were happy to pay you for it even if you didn't have like the right schooling or whatever. And there's something There's something here The reason I stuck on this point as I'm listening to you is that you know, a lot of times I I have these interviews and talk to people and they and you and we want to talk tactics because I feel this burden that somebody's giving me however long of their time to listen to this podcast, listen to this interview with you and they're giving me and you that time, right?

And I think I want to give people something helpful that they can grab onto. And so there's this temptation to say, well, like what are you doing on the website to merchandise your products really well? And you know what? I bet you or somebody on your team has great things to say about that. But at the end of the day, what I think a lot of businesses miss, and the reason that you've been able to get to $400 million with, you know, that growth over that long period of time, is is that is that you are selling something people want.

And there's this there's this baseline reality of having an ability to provide value to a customer. Cuz you're not just selling something people want, but you're selling it at a price that they want. People care about affordability, and they care about really big luxury brands that are legacy brands like this. They care about those two things both. And so if you find this way to get that to them, especially in 1999 when the barrier to entry was very high, like you said, you had to take checks in the mail, right?

So you the actual tactics there, you really had to They're not relevant anymore, but at the time they were remote or they were a moat, right? Because people it was it was hard work to build a business like that. When I think about all that, what I think is like there's really something translatable there for everybody, which is And and I find myself saying this to clients and to to people publicly all the time right now, which is like have you earned the scale that you were trying to get by providing the kind of value to people that they actually want?

Cuz if not, then it doesn't really matter what tactics you do. What you have to do is find a way to be present in people's lives in in in value provision, and you've got to bend over backwards and solve the hard problems uh that are required to do that. And what I hear in your story and in and in Fashion Files like and just like an incredible ability to do those things. Cuz again, I'm sure it's a messier story along 27 years than I'm making it sound right there.

But at the core, that's something people want. And and you know, I don't know. I'm interpreting your story for you. I don't know if you want to interpret it differently than I just did. >> it's it's absolutely right. Cuz I It's the same thing kind of there's that thread in all those little things I talked about, which is like you need to get a haircut, but you don't want to go down to Supercuts or whatever you can afford.

And I'm in the I'm in I'm in your dorm. I'm in the lobby. Like just pay me five bucks. And so I met all the cute boys got all the gossip and made money. It was perfect. >> [laughter] >> But but I really was just making it easy. >> something in it for the seller and the buyer, you know. >> Exactly. But I was but I was making it easy for you. You know, and I feel like that's cuz cuz when we talk about the customer, the truth is on the selling side there's something there's we can get into this as well just the importance of what I realized from day one from the the selling side we had to make that easy for people.

Because you can sell your own Gucci backpack. >> Yeah. Yeah, right. Right. >> And and and by the way, I tell people every day, if you can do it yourself, you should. You'll make more money. You know, eBay doesn't charge that much. So you should if you have the stomach for it. But we make it so easy. You get paid so quick. You know, we pay up front. You walk into this and our our showroom here or ship it into us, we're paying you we're wiring you that money.

It's in your wallet. So you can like, you know, and so we make it so easy you're like, oh, I could do this but I've or Fashionphile just give me the money. I'll just just give me the money, you know, may you made it so easy. Um and so it's solving that problem. And then on this on the shopper side what I realized was that our buyers, what do they really want? What do they really love? They love a brand. They are loyal to their brands.

You've got Hermes girlies, they are only buying Hermes. And you've got Louis Vuitton lovers and they're just going to stick with that brand until they go and till maybe they get up the food chain into Chanel. Um but they're very very brand loyal. And so from day one I said we have got to have a brand. Fashionphile has to be a brand that that our sellers and our shoppers are also loyal to. They're dying to >> Yeah. Interesting. >> very they're coded that way.

They love a brand. They understand they love the history. They love the experience. They love, you know, what's behind the brand that they can trust us that they always know we're going to pay them fast and fair. They don't need to shop it around cuz they know this is going to be a Sometimes we're going to do a a better offer than the next person. Sometimes it maybe isn't quite there, but overall we're pretty much just going to be fast and fair on that.

Um and they can just rely on it. You know, I say like Amazon, I just don't shop around anymore. If I'm going to get printer ink, I'm just getting it from Amazon. I just trust them. Our brand, we want it to be as reliable. And so we've we've focused every day on not just building Our mission is to be the best sellers and buyers doing what we're doing. It's you know, as a brand. We'd want to be the give the best brand experience, not just a company doing it.

Like that you know, that people that our company And so we have this you know, big like vision statement and it's to be the best brand doing what we're doing. And you know, and so for us it's like we spend every day also focusing on that because when we do that, our customers are like just already coded that way. They're already ready to get behind it. They'll be loyal to us and then they'll they'll tell their friends. >> Yeah.

I think I I that does seem like that's the core challenge for a business [clears throat] like Fashionphile, which is that like you know, like any retailer, right? Which is like you're selling somebody else's brand and so you have to find a way to create brand loyalty to you as the retailer alongside the brands that you're selling through. And you know, one thing that strikes me about what you guys have done that's interesting is the fact that you only sell certain brands.

So it sort of it it allows people to know that if I'm coming to Fashionphile, I'm only getting the best of the best, first of all. And and secondly, like this that keeps it from devaluing Fashionphile. But also it probably like makes this the shopper's job a little easier cuz they know they don't have to go searching through a bunch of stuff that is just like sort of below the tier of luxury that they actually want. And so it keeps some exclusivity and some premiumness on Fashionphile even as even as you sell through these sort of premium this you know, super premium brands. >> I I back in you know, 15 years ago or or whatever, I had this theory, which I still have today, which is that there are people buy Coach.

And Coach is kind of the gateway drug for a lot of people. We're the gateway drug into what we do. And then you get into more hardcore drugs. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, and so and I was like, "So we should sell Coach cuz there's there's women who love Coach." >> Sure. >> And they did they just actually don't think they can afford to get quality products that are, you know, luxury, Chanel, Hermes, Gucci, whatever. And so I was like, "If we sell Coach, then we can get them into our world and then move them up the food chain." And, you know, and the the truth is is that our customers were so upset. >> You should >> We shut it down.

Our customers didn't want to have to look through >> Coach. >> to get to the what they wanted. And so what we realized with our customers, they love a place. They love that we've curated it. That there's just nothing bad. You're literally going to search our site, it's just all really amazing stuff. >> Yeah. >> a you know, and so there's a curation there. We have condition um variation. We're not going to have anything that's totally trashed, but we might have actually very wealthy people they're like, "I'm looking for Louis Vuitton Neverfull." It's a big tote bag.

And they may want one that's in really Yeah, they just want to get a new bag that they're going to carry around and they want it to be really nice and it's going to only be a couple hundred bucks off of retail. >> Mhm. >> Um but they've got, you know, $800 in their wallet from something they also sold, so it's basically free. You know, they they they my favorite girl mouth. Um or they may say, "You know what? I'm going to use this as a gym bag.

I want it actually trash. I hope there's a whole bottle of nail polish spilled on the inside. No one's ever going to see it. I'm just going to put my I'm going to have like the coolest gym bag ever." And it's a it's a severely discounted bag because it's in our flawed category. You know, and and it's the same wealthy woman. She's or she wants to have a bag that she can travel with and stuff it under the seat or in the overhead and not have to worry about a lot of times, you know, our customers buy really nice bags and when they're traveling it's like, "Oh my gosh, now I'm worried about trashing my bag.

I don't want to put it on the floor. I don't want to jam it in the overhead. And so they'll buy, you know, something that they don't have to be so worried about. And so we have all of the options, but it's only in those specific categories and those specific brands that we know that our customers would would find acceptable and that we say, "Is this in our customer's closet?" If it is, then we'll accept that thing. Is this something that our kind of like we know what our customer is and would this be something that's in her closet?

And if it is, then we're going to take that item. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's really cool. I I think that point that you you actually have to be willing to maintain your core customer, you have to be willing to say no to some other customers. I think it's a really helpful principle. Like it's just the idea that if you're not bothering somebody, um then you're probably speaking to nobody, you know? And and so like the Coach customer that you're leaving on the table that's annoyed that you don't have Coach, it's like, well, that's that's actually the right thing to do in order to Do you have I've watched a number of brands figure out who they are as a brand more over time.

And and a big part of that process is figuring out who they're saying no to, you know? >> Exactly. And the truth is we could reach that customer other ways. We know that we The Coach customer is our customer. We know that. And so we're going to try to reach her just other ways. There's we're going to say no to that, but we're going to say yes to other ways to to finding her. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I want to do for the last couple minutes here, Sarah.

I want to just ask you about because your journey is so long. There's no way we can go through the whole thing. I want to ask you a little bit more about inflection points. Like have there been any points along the way where it was like these were the big unlock moments or the near-death experiences that you guys fought through that when you look back on your journey, you think of as being like really core to your story, really formative to how you guys got to where you were cuz I'm I'm just going to assume that a big part of the way that you end up at $400 over 27 years is just by surviving.

Like just like living to fight another day is actually a big part of how you grow. And so like so I'd love to hear sort of what those moments are, whether they really big wins or like I said the the near-death experiences or maybe not near death, but anything like that that you have that you look and say this really shaped Fashion Files today to be like an incredibly good, big, profitable brand. >> One thing in retrospect that I'm really glad we did is we did not take outside money for a long time.

We We were We were business for 20 years bootstrapped. We didn't We Our first investor was Neiman Marcus in 2019 and we We were at almost 100 million in revenue when we it when we had Neiman Marcus join us. >> That's crazy. So So in the last 7 years you've gone from about 100 to 400. >> Yeah. >> So that's I mean that's really fast growth. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, so we're we're trying. And it's it's becoming it's harder every day.

Let me tell you this cuz we have so many more competitors today than we did because it's getting so much easier. There's no barriers to entry online anymore. Um but and so I'm just really grateful because the truth is is that I've got a really great partner in my brother-in-law. His strengths are my weaknesses, my weaknesses are his strengths, all that. And so >> those? >> Like the brand and all of that like I'm I run all the kind of in the the retail arm, the marketing side, the brand building side.

I do all of that. Um and I'm able to just really hyper-focus on all that. He works with the finance team, with the tech team, all that side. >> I love that. >> It's a It's such a great division and so we're able to like literally focus so much and I don't need to worry cuz I know he's obsessed with those details there. He doesn't think think a thing about the thing it's going on. He knows that I'm obsessed and doubling down on that on this side of it and so we've a really great partnership in that. >> But um you know, so I'm sorry to interrupt you.

It sounds like complementary skills, but also really high trust. >> Oh, yeah. I mean the The funny funny side fact again about the fact that we I So I went to I went to law school. That's like a different It's somehow that happened in there. Um and when I was in law school, I actually partnered with my brother-in-law, same guy, on lawswap.com. >> Ha! >> My Our first Our first business together, which was a law book trading selling platform.

So it's so interesting cuz you can see the the lessons learned. >> Oh, yes. >> Important lessons learned. The TAM was not big enough. The market was not big enough. The ASP was not where I wanted it to be. And then the most important lesson is I work really well with Ben Heminger, my partner. >> That's That's That's a really good one. Can you Can you tell me about when you when you took on money, by the way? Like uh Why did you do it?

What did that get for you? Cuz that when I talk about inflection points, that's a really big one after 20 years of being bootstrapped. Uh Why did you decide to take on money? What was that supposed to do for you? And sort of Did that do the thing? In retrospect, did it accomplish what you wanted it to accomplish? >> Yes. So, um yeah. So, we I think the first time we like had interest in investing in our company was 2007.

We you know, we were able to pitch to a a group in LA. And um and had an offer. And we were like we sat we thought about it. We're like, "What are we going to do with the money? >> Yeah. >> Like we're we're profitable and growing. So, what are we going to do with the money? Are we going to put it in marketing? And then what's this going to be gone? You know, like We're kind of growing as fast as we can. Meaning for us, it's actually We have to be really smart about the way we grow because every single item If all of the sudden we had 10 times the interest in selling people's products right now, the We have really cool technology, not enough to get us that far to grow that to get to create a good experience for all of those people.

We have to grow at a more steady clip. And so we're like we said no. And we just kept doing that. And what was great is we took every Anytime we had any interest, we loved having the conversations because I We never been in those We Neither of us came from private equity. We didn't We It's There's a whole 'nother language and education >> Yeah. that's required. And so all of those meetings over the years put us in a better position when we actually in were like, "Okay, guess what?

We're not in Kansas anymore. Like there are some major big real real and before they went public, they raised over $300 million. We were bootstrapped and they're raising like hundreds of millions of dollars in awareness building. We went from like growing and like had all the awareness in our category to becoming just basically unknown and everybody else getting the airspace. And we said, "There's a few things we're doing right now.

We are trying to build technology that is very expensive. Um number two, nobody knows who we are. In 2010, Entrepreneur Magazine called Fashion Val one of the 100 smartest, most innovative, hands-down brilliant companies on their radar. And then because of all the awareness building of all these competitors, we kind of went under the radar at that point for many years. So we we we were >> is like Rent the Runway and people like that? >> Yeah, there's there's like honestly even just like the Poshmark's and the Anybody who more in the fashion world that gets more of the resale story.

Now there's there's ThredUp, there's you know, again Real Real, there's a company called Rebag, there's like just all these you know, and they're all raising money. And and literally hundreds of millions of dollars were And so we're like, "Okay, we need to build the technology that's going to help us to scale. We need to get some awareness." And we It was like we didn't have anybody on our sitting around the table with Ben and I who'd been there, done that with a company bigger than ours.

We're figuring it out as we go every single day. We didn't have anybody at the table at point who's like, you know, who'd been there, done that with a bigger company. Everybody sitting around the table with us who was also figuring it out as we went. And it's like it'd be very nice to have Now like our CFO came from Ralph Lauren and you >> You we at you know, and our you know, CTO came from Petco and you know, like they're working at much bigger companies solving different problems, but like they can apply very easily to ours and so really help us. >> Um and so we realized we're like we're playing a different game right now.

If we were still in a world with no competition, we would not want any investors ever cuz we're making money and growing, but we're like we're seeing the writing the wall that we're going to slowly but surely become obsolete if we don't >> Yeah. >> you know, really like play in the same field. And so at that point we said, we want to do those three things we knew we were going to do with the money. And we went out and looked for tried you know, went to raise money.

We were in San Diego, so we didn't have we couldn't just like knock doors in Silicon Valley. So we we got investment bank who helped us and we you know, and and at the end of the day we ended up with Neiman Marcus our first investor. >> Mhm. >> Fun fact, not our highest valuation. They did not >> Interesting. >> But we knew that that strategic partner would be the best one for us and end up working really nicely for us with a bunch of the synergies that we were able to do with them and kind of we feel like day after that partnership that partnership said so much about our brand and was so valuable that we feel like it helped our valuation.

So day two our you know, that they really helped with that. >> Yeah. >> Um but that was kind of >> I think that's a really good case for raising money actually, the things you said which is like to hit a couple of them. One of them is technology. Technology just by definition requires a bunch of upfront cost and the value is pushed down the road. It's just one of those things that you need to fund generally. Like it if you know, in the old version Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. Like if you need it. And most most brands don't, right? Most e-commerce brands don't really need serious second infrastructure. >> point honestly is that some people think they need to raise raise earlier than they do or they feel like failures, but Dan and I have raised an incredible amount of money now, and we still own the majority. >> Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. >> the shots, and that's what happens when you if you grow to your where you're, you know, raising and you're doing 100 million in sales, like your value your valuation is big enough that you can raise a chunk of money and you still own the majority.

And we have so many friends that have raised money, you see this all the time in D2C. People raise money, they they're the they're they have owned less, you know, than any of their investors. And then say there's a big outcome, and they're getting nothing out of it. >> Yeah. >> And worse than all of that is the fact that they don't call the shots. So, Ben and I have a point of view that is important in our growth, and it makes all the difference.

It's why we're still alive. And luckily, because we are where our investors can be partners. They're not They can't bully us. Not that they would. If you're watching any of our team, like not that they would, but you know, they can't. If they wanted to. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. And I mean, I think you said that like technology, you immediately said if you actually need it, which I think is right. A lot of them don't, and I've seen that go really wrong.

Um another So So any investment where there's a really long payback period often needs to be funded. The other place I would say is like that you that you pointed to is the need for more scale. And this is another thing that people get wrong all the time. There's lots of brands that actually don't really need to get bigger faster. They're They're perfectly fine growing at a at a slower pace, and they just convince themselves for whatever reason they need to get bigger faster.

Um in your guys' case, um there's there's actually uh an argument for doing it. What What an example I think of all the time in this is Will Nitze and IQ Bar. I don't know if you know that company, but >> Yeah. >> Will's a really smart uh operator, and he raised early from the beginning because he's in food and bev, and the reality of food and bev is that you need mass retail presence, and also COGS get so dramatically cheaper when you get to real true large-scale manufacturing that the business is works way better.

Like the Like the pure unit economics just work much much better at a larger scale. So, Will's like, "I've got to raise money and I've got to get scale and I've got to get there as fast as I can because when when I can uh manufacture in much larger facilities, my COGS gets like cut in half. And so it so it just it just makes the business actually work. So, you just have to fund that. Um in your case, I think it's a network effect.

It's like you know, if you're going to be this this magnet for used bags and there's a bunch of competition, you've got to be the place where people want to go sell because you also have to be the place where people want to go buy. And so for both parties, it's really important to do that. And the more the competitors come in, that makes your job harder. So, you just got to fund that, you know? And it it makes sense to me. >> It it yeah, it at the time that we needed to do it, it made sense.

I'm so glad we were able to hold off as long as we could because because the truth is is that there's I could list to I have an Excel spreadsheet cuz I'm one of those psycho people where I literally anybody who's putting out ads that they're in our space. I'm like, "Who is this person? How long have they been around? Like what have they raised money? Whatever." It's >> Yep. >> It's got hundreds of names on it. >> Yeah. >> And there's a big section at the bottom that's all red and it's all the ones that are have gone under. >> Yeah. >> And many of them have raised money.

And what happens is when you get investors, they don't know resale. They don't know our customer. >> Yeah. >> And if you've raised money and and you are beholden to that investor, they're you know, it's yeah, it's still founder-led, but not really. You're being driven by you know, by a board decision and all these things that honestly are not at the end of the day troubling. And when I look at like some of the decisions our competitors have made over time and I just like seriously shake my head.

When it when they'd make the decision, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe you did that. I know that wasn't you. I know that is your board. I know that is an investor who's saying, 'Sell more things.'" There was a period of time when The RealReal, I think they were just like, which I am a massive fan of The RealReal and they've made a bunch of turns in the positive direction and I'm like a huge fan. But there was a time when they literally sold everything.

They sold a couch and I'm not talking about Jonathan Adler couch. I'm talking about a $350 couch that if you put it out on your front stoop right now and said free couch, nobody pick it up. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And at The RealReal, it looks like they're luxury brand and they were selling couches, furniture, everything. And I'm like, I know for a fact that Julie Wainwright did not want to do that. I know for a fact they're like, "Hey, I know we can get raise, you know, grow revenue, sell more things, open up the categories." And I just know that wasn't a decision that the founders had.

Um Anyway, and so I, you know, I'm I'm grateful that we're able to hold off as long as we can. And I just think really people should make, you know, look at it. If they're if they're growing and they are and they can profitably grow, um they should hold off as long as you can in that >> Yeah. >> regard. And there's there's good reasons to main to raise a lot of money fast, um but they have to be the right reason. >> agree with that more.

One of the things I love about your story, like I said, is that's $400 million, but $400 million over 27 years. And there's some bootstrapped in there, there's some funded in there, there's everything. It's really awesome. Sarah, I really appreciate your time so much. Uh this is a great conversation. I'm I'm walking away with a lot to to take from it. So thank you so much for taking the time. >> too. I love telling it. >> Good.

Uh and for people who want to follow up with Sarah, the first thing you should do, of course, is go to fashionphile.com and go buy yourself some luxury goods at a price that actually makes sense. Um and then secondly, um you should go follow up with Sarah on her uh LinkedIn and on her X where she's sharing this kind of stuff uh all the time. Remarkably, she actually has @sarahdavis. I'm like astounded. Sarah with an H.

Uh that you that you have that. >> When you're old, like I actually Sarah sarahdavis.com, cuz I was old enough [laughter] to just get all the things. >> Yeah, incredible. Well, uh you can follow her there. And of course, you don't have to remember those things. You can just go um and and follow the links for those which are in the show notes. Sarah, huge thanks. Uh come back sometime, talk some more. I I was really grateful for it. >> Check us out in LA. >> Okay, yes.

All right. >> us. all right. Thanks, Sarah. Yep. Huge thanks to Sarah for that conversation. That was great. I loved it a lot. Do follow up with her in all the places that I mentioned and that are in the show notes. Big thanks also to my sponsors for this episode, Move Supply Chain and IntelliGemz. Again, their links are also in the show notes. Tell them I sent you. Email me watching or listening. There's a bunch of great episodes coming up.

I've got Lauren Bonfig, who is the head of marketing at Little Words Project, a client of ours that we've been working with for a while. really awesome things happening there. She's going to talk influencers. Patrick will come back soon, talk some more. I've got May Tam who I mentioned in the beginning coming back soon as well. That's going to be a great episode. A whole bunch of good stuff coming up. Don't miss any of it.

Thanks again so much, like I said, for watching, for listening. And of course, you can go to ajfgrowth.com if you want to work with us. Tell me a little bit about your business, see if we're the right brand [music] agency to help you grow. Thanks again. Talk to you soon.