What Separates Winners from Losers?❌ Ep 002 transcript

hi i'm ross cameron and this is my podcast where we'll explore everything related to day trading you'll hear me recap trades analyze strategy dive into trading psychology and interview other traders i'll share with you the biggest ups and the biggest downs of being a trader and you'll pick up tips and tricks along the way that you won't hear anywhere else if you love what you hear and you want to keep learning you can check out more free content over on my youtube channel or visit warriortrading.com to see my premium members only chat rooms scanners and trading courses i want to remind you as always that trading is risky and my results and experiences as a trader are not typical there's no guarantee that you'll find success whether you trade on your own or you'll earn from me so please take it slow and practice in a simulator before you put real money on the line and remember these episodes are for educational purposes only and are not financial advice or buy sell recommendations so let's go ahead and jump in to this episode in the last episode i talked about how i hired a trading coach during a particularly difficult period in my trading career where i was struggling and i thought that i was sort of at rock bottom i thought that i might have to call it quits and throw in the towel so in today's episode i'm going to interview ted he has been my trading coach for the last 10 years and because he's been such an asset for me to help me keep my head straight and maintain a profitable trader's mindset i've wanted to share him with the warrior pro community so he actually does weekly group mentor sessions for warrior pro members and he also does one-on-one sessions with uh traders who want to book them directly with him so in today's episode we're going to be doing an interview with ted and talking a little bit about the psychological struggles that many of us have when it comes to trading if you find this interesting there'll be a link right down below in the description to check out another episode that ted and i did together which we called a ted talk it was uh it was a little bit longer than this podcast it was really a fantastic episode where we talked about really very candidly the struggles of trading and where i also put forth a road map of how to get through these big roadblocks that many traders have whether they're emotional or technical in nature so make sure you check out the link down below to watch the ted talk after you of course finish this podcast so let's go ahead and jump in to the interview with ted all right everyone so um you guys are in for a treat uh i'm gonna hang out here uh ted how's it feel you're in the hot seat i'm gonna be asking all the questions now i'm ready the tables are turned so um you know through this uh chapter 17 we've been talking a lot with a lot of students um at sort of varying degrees on the the learning curve although most of the students have had some profitability badge you are um going to be kind of an exception to this this is really a conversation about that mindset stuff because right what has been so interesting i mean not surprising but such an interesting theme is that it seems that those who need the money the least make the most those who have the least levels of desperation stakes being brought by and it feels unfair you see someone who's made 500 000 or 600 000 or a million dollars or even two million dollars trading or maybe even like me even more than that and at the points they're making this money or even for several several of those students is the point that they're starting they came in not even really needing it it was just sort of like icing on the cake so kind of the big question is i well the one you know sort of what's what's where's the level of skill and psychology and trading you know skill and mindset and what is more important and it seems more and more so that mindset is the more determining factor in whether or not right you'll be successful so how do you feel yeah just you know how do you if you're not if you're not coming in with a seven figure account you know if you are coming in more like me when i got started where there isn't enough desperation where i can't afford to keep losing or i've already had big losses and now my back my i'm up against the ropes how do i how do i fake that mindset that i don't have if that's so important um well one of the things that i end up talking a lot about is it's the importance is in how you meet it you know if that desperation is there you know if if you feel like your back is against the wall you know the importance of being able to recognize that that's going on you of slowing down of turning towards that with some degree of acceptance and even compassion for yourself and doing you know whatever you can one you know especially you know in moments when you're sitting down to actually trade to give some acknowledgement to okay i know that there's a lot of pressure here can i take a few moments to slow that down to depressurize you know to you know kind of let myself off the hook and to whatever degree i can that you know i don't have to make or break it right here right now because there is some real truth to you know if if you go into you know a day of trading and you're already emotionally charged up with you know a sense of i have to make this happen right now you know you're already starting from a place where it's going to be that much more difficult you know especially if things start to turn against you you know if you get into it well for one it'll make it difficult to to hang back and really wait for the proper trade to show up yeah it's like i need to make this happen right now and oh that looks sort of good but no actually it wasn't right yeah you're i mean you're definitely right on that i'm just going to take a take a note so as a professional coach a whiteboard so my first note here is [Music] mindfulness and and i think that we'll come back to this um as we talk but for students watching i think the important thing here is um being able to identify because sometimes beginner traders struggle and they don't realize why they're struggling you know they don't realize why it's getting more frustrating if it's getting more frustrating or or why it's so challenging they just feel that all this emotion and this tangle and for someone like me or someone like you who's worked a lot of traders and for me who's been through this and has seen it in other traders i can just very quickly see wow this person is coming into this with a very high level of uh you know desperation or pressure or this is someone that just it's like it doesn't matter and so let's think for maybe just a second if we can kind of um break down maybe the mindset of someone that comes in with that approach of this doesn't matter how so let's contrast these two mindsets the the right mindset of someone who's very successful who's like i'm just gonna learn this so what kind of characteristics do you see in that type of trader as they sit down in the morning um usually you know if anyone who comes into trading and isn't trying to straight off the bat support themselves trading if they have another income source that is that is basically paying the bills you know because if they have that then it's much easier to to have the patience for the time this that this really requires right you know so that's you know one of the main things is that if if if that's a possibility yeah you know so things like you know not quitting your job to start trading sure you know those kind of things right um that only adds that only makes the stakes higher so right so on this side we've got you know the person who's coming in with that really strong kind of well the mindset that seems to be more um you know a better advantage for being successful most likely their income is going to be diversified so that the income produced from trading is not a make it or break it it's a hey that's nice there's still i'm i'm sure um the excitement of the potential that this could potentially with some of our students um that this if it works could potentially make me a millionaire potentially but if it doesn't work that's okay too you know so there's a much more um so that therefore because they have a primary source of income the stakes are lower for success uh right if they make anything at all it's extra money yeah um if they lose some it's from an account that's more discretionary anyways so they're not as sort of emotionally attached to it they're a little bit more detached so so number one primary income source to um emotionally um and i'm not going to say totally detached but more detached well that's and that is a separate issue from you know coming into it you know [Music] you know not having a lot riding on it in terms of i have to make this happen in a very short amount of time in order to survive right you know so that's what we've been talking about but then there's this other part you know the beliefs that we carry and some of these are conscious but many of them are are unconscious beliefs things around you know being wrong you know one of the things that we talk about is you know to be you know a truly successful trader is going to be right about 70 of the time so at the top of your game 30 of the time you're simply going to be wrong but for many people that is completely unacceptable you know we have these you know these inner critics these different parts of us you know some of them are real perfectionists that if you're not a hundred percent all the time you're failing [Music] and there's a paradox there that when you have that kind of belief and say you get into a trade and it starts to go against you you know losing trade isn't really a loser until you let it go correct yeah so then you've got this battle going on inside of you right you have to be right you have to be right okay i'm going to be right i'm going to be right meanwhile it's just going more more and more maybe we've been adding to it you know trying to get it to you know to ride itself and before you know it you've you've let a little loss turn into a really big loss all because you can't be wrong yeah that that's gonna be um so we'll add that on on the the mindfulness side um you know acceptance uh of being wrong because that's one that some people who come into the table with a lot of money with um other sources of income who do not accept being wrong have an ability to aggressively average down and write back holders you don't want to think oh ross great okay so you're telling me i just come to the table with a million dollars and i'll immediately be successful that right it's not that simple sure having a some primary source of income is going to reduce the stakes make the stakes lower it'll probably help you be a little bit more emotionally detached but then that acceptance of loss that that portion of mindset is not a guarantee with having a lot of money by any means right in fact some people that have a lot of money may have it because they are more perfectionist in life or they were very type a and there could be components of the personality that also would lead to that success but then make trading very difficult right because this acceptance of of being being wrong um even though this is always such a challenge because i i've tried to turn around my 30 losing rate um from those being you know losers and i was wrong to every single one of those was right because it's part of the greater strategy which is profitable right it's hard to see that i like that but it's true that being wrong 30 percent of time is totally okay for my strategy right and it's in every every instance there's an opportunity to either cut that loss quickly move on to the next trade or to get emotional about it to get stubborn about it and for some stupid reason i say it's a stupid reason but for some reason that's driven by some inner you know fixation to refuse to give up i just dig a hole deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper right and that's where things get bad for me and for anyone and that's you know so on that mindfulness side you know the thing that diane and i talk about all the time you know in order to really challenge and deal with some of these you know you know call them faulty beliefs or whatever that are you know holding you back causing you to make bad decisions or wrong decisions whatever you know the thing that we talk about all the time is meeting ourselves in a much kinder way so we talk about loving kindness compassion and ultimately acceptance for all that lives within us so that's where um and i just i added on the mindfulness mindful mindfulness of current state and then to acceptance dot dot dot of loss of self so because that's that that's that spot where being able to truly accept and this is where we get into the radical acceptance being able to truly accept the the you know maybe the terrible reality that today is the anniversary of the day that my dad died and this is this is acceptance of this is today the mindfulness this is my current state this is the challenge i face today and on a day like that two years ago uh 2019 so it'll be two years ago um this this saturday um day after tomorrow that i had at that time the second worst red day of my career right and i came to the table that day very emotionally fueled not realizing it not even realizing it but at the moment i was faced with a challenge in the market i muscled in refused to stop pressing the buy button average down average down and lost 30 grand and right i think the the thing there just to give you kind of for those watching the hint of what drove that um having a small green day on that day would have made a bad day just a little bit less back right and having a red day on that day made a bad day a whole lot worse and so i was as the point the moment when the trade wasn't working all of a sudden the stakes felt so high just to get green just to maybe not have a terrible terrible day that it in that emotionally fueled moment was worth taking a stupid amount of risk um and so that acceptance i think that day certainly spoke to a lack of mindfulness of my current state and the challenge i would be facing um and that's right and there's a thing that that often happens that even when we recognize oh there's something here that could potentially affect me what we tend to do is go okay i'm aware of it i'm not going to let that affect me and we try to distance ourselves from it we try to wall ourselves off from it yeah and then it just sneaks up on us you know a better question well one so approaching from this place of you know compassionate kind loving acceptance of you know what that's a big deal and having that question of okay how does this or how could this affect me so a very sort of a cute little example is you know the anniversary of something may be very painful right but that's one day out of the year and maybe a couple days before now um but then you have more general circumstances um like the the challenge of maybe having already lost your job or being unemployed or being in a retirement kind of situation and coming to the market hoping that maybe this can supplement maybe this can help me in this situation which is already a challenging situation right so when you're already in a challenging situation now it feels that the the bar is sort of set just inherently higher because the stakes are higher the emotional attachment to the gains and the losses is therefore higher and it's going to be a lot more difficult to have that mindset it's not impossible it's more difficult it requires more out of you initial really to be able to have the strength to fully recognize and accept your current state and accept that um trading and this is going to be a really hard one for people for some people that um trading cannot be a quick fix right because trying to force trading to be the quick fix is trying to force it to be something it can never be success and trading doesn't come over me right so one of the things that i was i'm not sure if this was if it was you or i who said this the the first time but you know trade the market you're in not the one you wish you were in i think that sounds like you yeah probably i'll go and take credit for it i've said it a lot but i'm not [Laughter] but it's also you know trade the market you're in yeah and be aware of everything else that you could potentially be trading towards instead of what's right in front of you you know i have to make x amount of dollars this week right i'm looking at that not at the chart that's playing out right in front of me right or you know i had a loss on friday you know so i come into monday i'm not coming in with a clean slate i got to make that up right i've got to fix that yeah yeah so the um you know what's interesting is of course my mindset can change the mindset of a successful trade or if you want to call it that um a successful trader will not come to the market every single day with that successful mindset right some of those days that we don't bring our mindset we'll be losing days and the problem with a loss is that and this is a this is important because this reiterates why it's so critical to do the sort of breakout or bailout style trading which is cut loss is ruthless brutally quickly just get out right with zero care for the stock you're not it's not a family member it's not a neighbor it's not a loved one it's right it's gone right you cut the loss because when you have that really big loss uh unfortunately a really big loss the next day when you come in you are not the same trader that you were before that loss happened right you have now taken a hit to your confidence your center is off and in the following days you now have to go back to this bare sort of bones basic small base hit small base hit slowly rebuilding not just the amount of money you lost but more importantly the confidence in your mindset and so when you take a really big loss it costs you not only on that day of the loss but it has a shadow forward on the following days as you miss opportunities because now you have to be more conservative because of this mistake that you made right it's so a loss is not a mistake but when a loss is beyond your risk tolerance and becomes far bigger due to poor choices that's when it becomes a problem and that's when you know if that does occur and you know for many traders that's part of especially the learning process you know you know a lot has learned from those big mistakes unfortunately yeah but that's again where compassion and acceptance and kindness really come into play you know so following a loss like that recognizing okay this is going to affect me being willing to have that compassionate curiosity and you know attentive care or okay you know what are the echoes of this what are the ways what are the things i'm saying to myself you know am i starting to doubt myself right you know and so being really attentive being really kind you know [Music] you know things like okay reduce your share size tighten your stops you know [Music] be mindful of when you catch yourself really beating you know beating yourself up and doing things to you know to calm those inner critics down and you know we talk a lot about you know this internal relationship of working with different parts of us and you know one of the things that diane and i recognize with almost everyone we we work with is there's this thing about trading that it tends to bring up everything whatever issue you know internally that you might have trading will bring it right up and put it right in front of your face yeah over and over and over again it's it's a huge motivator for you know really dealing with who we are because the stakes are so high yeah yeah so you don't have to go to south america and try oscar [Music] but you're right and it is it's really it's something that i think comes as a shock that we're gonna have to fix this stuff because we think we're just sitting down to trade press a couple buttons get in get out and then all of a sudden it's the emotions that sneak up in all and you're you're now captivated by them and you didn't see it coming at all you weren't prepared for it and then that's where if you get into those states of emotional hijack where you start basically act making actions to alleviate the emotions you're feeling pain of loss so you make an action exactly not feel that pain which would be to take a home run trade a grand slam that might recoup all the losses then it turns into an even bigger loss and now that person that might have come in with a big account in one day could lose 100 i mean you could if you wanted to you could and you were not restrained you could lose everything in the market right exactly a very quick period of time and that then that actually is you know the danger of a really large account in the hands of someone who has not developed the skills yet right and especially if they're going in with some of those perfectionist beliefs yeah you know [Music] when it all costs kind of thing right well you can cost yourself quite a bit yeah that's the um getting to the state of competent incompetence where you know what you don't know and you're smart enough to reduce your risk because you know how painful it could be and that doesn't usually come without first getting a little taste of the pain yeah unfortunately that is very true but if you can get that taste in a controlled way because of a sort of initial good decisions on account size that would be right preferable what do you say to someone out there sort of generally speaking who and this is the place that you saw me in for a long time of two steps forward two steps back right clockwork every month there's one day every day before i give back everything i just made in the previous four weeks and now i'm sitting here six months eight months a year and two years in and i i'm not net profitable i'm two two steps four two steps back i just keep not making any ground what's going on there um for one that does there there's a degree to which that seems to be part of the process that you know i saw in you i've seen it in you know trader after trader um and it's funny it's actually as you begin to really develop the skills of trading yeah is when you then run into that you know where you have a month that is consistently green which shows that you clearly got some skills that you've got the skills yeah and then in one day you get hijacked you know you had a little bit more of a loss or whatever the factors were on that one day and then the reaction to it is you know this terrible bout of over trading where you just dig the hole deeper and deeper spiraling down until you hit a loss that finally either well sometimes for many people it wipes out their account it you know all sorts of things can happen um but you feel pretty knocked down yeah um so recognizing that that can happen um and i've even i mean since it was something that happened to you and we worked with for quite a while you know for a lot of traders even even just hearing that even ross cameron went through that same thing you know that they're not alone which is which is one of the one things i love about you know our you know this community is that's you know that that discovery of all these things that you're struggling with trying to make this dream come true yeah you're not alone in it yeah that's true uh i've as i've talked to different students who have gotten a profitability badge i've asked sort of a couple common questions you know one what percentage trading is emotion and what part is skill and another is um and i don't ask this every time but if they recall a sort of moment where everything clicked you know where a moment where they turn the corner because i i sort of have one you know mine was um it was august and i was had had this big loss and it blew up my account and it was sort of like well it blew it up because i i went below 25 000. i had to sell some stuff in my barn got myself above 25k and then from that point i was like i need to follow the rules mistakes now are like i can't fund my account again right and so for me that became um that was a i think that was a very rememberable moment because i guess it was the moment where even though i've been trading for a while it was where i finally started to really take it seriously like i had like i couldn't i couldn't keep coming up with an excuse for why i was breaking rules and trading when i showed in or trading stocks i shouldn't but for a lot of students um what is more common is that they're in this period if i if you don't mind where i kind of you know it's two steps forward and two steps back and two steps forward and two steps back and there's three steps forward and two steps back two steps forward three steps back and then three steps forward two steps back and then just this very gradual realization over the course of maybe four or five months that hey my account's up here it doesn't feel like a lot but something's starting to take off something is starting to work another few months go by maybe there is you know okay back to square one but then it's like wow i've got this track record all i need to do is stay focused do what i did during that stretch i think i've got this and that's sort of the beginning of taking flight it's it's really a sort of awesome thing when it starts to happen and unfortunately it begins with two steps forward two steps right and that can last for months years maybe for different people can last for a while and that's and that's the place of you know when you have those setbacks you know especially those setbacks that you know are purely on you know from that emotional reactivity you got hijacked you threw all your rules out the window you started swinging at everything um and in one day you really wrecked yourself you know not getting defensive about that what do you mean well because it's it's really easy to go okay it was you know the fault of this the fault of that you know if you can really and this is why again compassionate acceptance is so important because if you can use that as data what happened to me there what actually happened and began to turn towards that and learn from it and for whatever part of you might have been at play you know developing a much more conscious relationship a much kinder relationship with that part of you yeah because a lot of these you know the emotional reactivity that we fall into um you know we often have the experience of if if i could just get rid of that if i could get rid of that part of me if i could get rid of that tendency that belief um then i would be fine yeah but it tends to not work that way yeah we have to have a different relationship with what's already there yeah yeah that that's um yeah that's a that's a i mean i think you're spot on there that it's about meeting what's currently here and not fighting against it it's the fighting against it the fighting against it's the refusal to be wrong and i just grabbed my p l from my birthday of this year which you can't see because you you don't have a screen share but it's um i i was up like i looked like maybe like 200 bucks then i was down like 500 that was up like 3 000 and then 8 and 9 and 10 25 and then in one trade i went to up only i think maybe 10. then in one more trade i went to down 10. then one more trade i made back a teeny bit and then i went down 275. and it's like i mean it's i was so i was i was fighting it i was refusing on my birthday right so so to take a moment you know to learn from that you know so even from you know that anniversary and then here's your birthday yeah you know so there's that speaks to it there's a belief there that in important days need to be important need to have a home run important days need to be big trading days important days can't be read days right and so in recognizing that you carry that belief you know then you can ask things like you know is that fair right because had i not been had i not known that the fact that had i not known what day of the month it was how drastically that would have changed my performance speaks clearly to how hijacked i was without knowing right and that's a problem that's not a good situation to be in and you know it can i'm i'm critical of myself where i see areas i could do better um i'm sure we could all find an instance of this but you know just for the specific issue with calendar first for i i'm notorious on the first first week of the month first day of the month first month of the year i always try to start strong because the biggest fear i guess of having a red month or a red year it's it's starts to go away when i start to get green right and even after all these years of doing it because this is so performance-based there feels always to be this pressure get green on the month get green get green at the beginning of a new year get green get green right and as i start to slip away from that going red the desperation starts to kick in i start to get aggressive i start to take bigger and bigger and bigger size to try to if i average down maybe or to try to just recoup a loss and i've had some huge losses and many of them for me have been calendar-based so you know we can't forget about the calendar we can't not know the dates we never not know what you know birthday our day birthday is but but recognizing that you have that tendency right and on those particular days are those kind of days you know that's those are good days to lower your expectations yeah you know you know yeah trying to go for a green day but you don't have to make it a really a huge green day sure and going into you know yes i would love this to be a green day especially today it's okay if it's red and i think if i think if the initial response from your sort of internal dialogue is no it's not okay it's red then that's an indicator that you're already kind of so wound up right this might not be a good day to trade in fact right or that i should restrict myself to very small size but if you're the type of person who has trouble sort of enforcing those restrictions then it's sometimes just better to get out of the kitchen you know just getting some heat get out of the kitchen there are some days where i just feel like i i'm getting to a point having done this for a long time where i'm starting to know myself well enough that yesterday um mike in the afternoon he's like oh my god do you see this i was like don't nope don't see it not looking don't care i was like i'm not i'm not falling for your little attempt at getting me you know right get you going i'm making a big move i don't care i don't see it i'm not looking i'm not gonna look on my chart i'm not gonna pull up the ticker on my phone i know myself well enough to know that in that moment i wasn't doing anything else uh well you know i was doing other things but i could have if i wanted to run back over here and load up the charts and start trading at 3 30 in the afternoon for an after hours move and i know myself well enough at this point that while sometimes that will be i might get a win from it that the risk is far more than the risk of losing money because when i trade late in the day and i've already had a good day the risk is that i lose all this good feeling that i've had in the whole day of like you've had a good day good job uh that all of a sudden it's gone and then the stakes are higher but but even as i say that the fact that um i think i mentioned this another two weeks ago two weeks ago maybe three weeks ago on a friday i was reading um a bedtime bedtime story um and to my son and we were reading and i was like why i feel really great i feel really good this feels so good i feel like we had a great afternoon we had a great evening i think we did like a movie night and then we did like story time and and a big part of me saying i feel really good was because i'd had a really good day trading also i'd had a good trip uh and let me just look at the calendar i'd had a good um a good good trades um i don't know if it was two fridays ago i think it might have been three it was three fridays ago and that week i had made like over two hundred thousand dollars i mean i had just maybe three hundred thousand i just crushed it right and i was it was a great week and i yeah i was so it that concerns me a little bit because previously i had talked a lot about how when i have good trades i don't i don't feel i don't feel anything i don't feel good i just i only feel something when i have bad trades and i feel terrible and i think i've become aware of how subtly amazing i'll sometimes feel when i have good trades and how i feel good and i don't attribute it even after all these years i haven't attributed that sense of feeling good to trading and it's just been like i'm in a good mood today i don't know and i think they're they are more connected which concerns me a little bit because it it doesn't speak to that kind of ability to detach emotionally a little bit from the wins and losses and that i allow the winners without even realizing it to make me feel good about myself like i'm a good provider for the family i'm doing good and then the loss is terrible but that subtle recognition you know and this is that compassionate curiosity you know what is this that goes on inside of me and you know we you know in in the language of mindfulness there's the word equanimity of treating everything as if it has you know equal value you know the good and the bad the things we love about ourselves things we hate about ourselves you know meeting all of it with kindness loving acceptance compassion so in that recognizing wow okay i see that i feel good you know and on days when my training went well just as you feel bad on the days that they don't and to slow down you know if this was anyone else you know [Music] you know if you saw somebody somebody said hey ross i just had a great day trading you know more than likely your reaction would be that's wonderful i'm so happy for you if they came to you and said i just had a horrible day you most likely wouldn't be angry at them no you would be compassionate you'd be sympathetic yeah you know having that intention to start practicing doing the same thing for ourselves you know i'm a friend of myself on days when i do great yeah i'm a friend to myself on days when it doesn't go so well yeah hmm yeah that's a it's a tough one for sure i mean it's you know it it and it's easy to kind of be like yeah okay that's all great but i really do need to make money like this week you know i really do and then just kind of sort of strong arm your self into just sticking with this kind of same thought process but you know i guess i i would say that if your current thought process has resulted in sort of a net negative experience on learning to trade in terms of profit then it is important to evaluate where that's not working for you whether it's in acute little days where things go totally off the rails which if that was the case and the rest of the days are good then i would say that you're in a pretty good place because you're showing those periods of profitability and those periods of being composed and doing well if it's that you're just all over the place and that speaks to shouldn't probably be trading even with real money you're not dialed in enough even on a strategy you're just grasping at stuff so it's sort of where you're at in in profit and what your specific issue is can speak a little bit to where you're at in the journey i think right and that that reminds me of something that i think is is really important um for people that are either trading in the simulator or or even reasons you know to go back to the simulator that for me more than anything the simulator isn't necessarily about just learning you know the mechanics of trading it's actually about learning discipline you know if you can show up in the simulator and even though you know because you know it's you know there's there's no real risk in the simulator so you have the freedom to do you know all sorts of crazy things but that doesn't really help you you know because if you you know if you it's like if you train yourself if you practice being irresponsible in the simulator right you know your body your system is going to remember that and when you go to a live account yeah you're going to take that with you but if you know if if you find yourself in a live account you know making the same mistakes over and over and over again you know going back into the simulator and saying to yourself okay my goal here is to really practice self-discipline you know to work with you know everything from you know reasonable share size respecting max loss you know whatever rules you set in place you know can you consistently keep coming back to that before you know adding the you know the stress the pressure all of it of of live account right right yeah um yeah i as i was talking with students a lot of the students who have profitability badges did not trade in the simulator um a number of them said that they felt that it was i think maybe they came in with enough sort of cursory knowledge of trading from other experiences that they felt they could just get started but um a challenge that many comment on is that it didn't feel the stakes weren't high enough it didn't feel real it didn't it just felt like a game i wasn't treating it real it was just and so it's it is i see that challenge there of being disciplined in the simulator and and trying to have those emotions and the losses and really take it seriously i i think that there is a point where it is important to with small share size trade and even if you're incurring commissions with 10 shares at a time to actually start to get that emotional conditioning going of what it's like to experience loss and to start processing the things that are going to come to the surface because if you trade in a simulator for like two years you know right like at a certain point you're kind of putting off dealing with some of the hard work of right and that that becomes that's a that's a completely different issue yeah you know that's the i feel safe in the simulator right safe place yeah and you know being able to take those steps and that's that's an important especially if you're dealing with you know a small account at the beginning of your journey as a trader um you know going in with the the attitude if if it's all possible you know this is money that i'm spending to towards my education you know if you were yeah you know even if you're getting a degree any of those kind of things you know all the things it costs money to learn things yeah yeah when you're in residency you don't get paid the same as you know yeah i mean it's a cost to do that you can get a better paying job doing something else right doing these sort of interning and stuff like that but it's part of gaming experience so you've been opening an account with you know say like two thousand dollars you know if you can approach that at all and for some people this may or may not be possible but okay i'm spending that money on my education right that way you know you know if you make gains from it if you have losses from it it's it's money i've already spent yeah so you know what that starts making it feel a little bit more over here getting emotionally detached from it because it's this is all perspective it's how you're looking at it now if it's your last two thousand dollars to your name obviously the stakes are going to be really high and true trading with that is probably not a good idea but if you're able to sort of position it that way that this is my this is my this is the next extension of my education i have my coursework i had my lab time in the simulator and now it's time for me to go into sort of production under this very sort of set of you know rigid um restrictions small signs just practice get comfortable very disciplined i mean that would we had a student um that i did an interview with who over the course of i want to say like six months or maybe nine months maybe six months made nine hundred dollars trading and was so happy about it and yes just gotten his 50k badge and he actually was i think he said he was up he had like a 15 or 16 000 a month or something like that he had a couple really good months um you know in the last uh two months this is now like um i think he got to 900 or 800 in like august or something like that and then started to he used that to justify sound like that he kind of knew what he was doing with small size and then with that justification funded his account up to 25 000 so he could start trading more actively but still trade with small size right right but he didn't want to sort of take that next leap until he first sort of you know proof of concept could show that right which is a smart way to do it and and that i mean not many people have the patience to spend nine months making or whatever it was making only a couple hundred dollars a few hundred dollars but ultimately that sets such an awesome foundation for him and if you go out at the kind of like gung-ho way of trying to go all in you could still spend the same amount of time spinning your wheels but one way is built a solid foundation the other is dug yourself a hole and taught yourself bad habits and you know yeah and for a lot of people that i work with you know i i find myself encouraging this idea of of stair-stepping their progress you know that one of the dangers is you know because if you're always if you go in and every day you're looking for you know this mammoth you know home run yeah that's you know just that's going to be this incredible winner you know you overextend yourself you know you reach too far and usually you come crashing down um not always you know you have there's all those stories of the beginner's luck where but even for the i mean you know yeah the stories that i've heard of i made all this money and then i gave it all right back because it created and then i started with confidence right you know so you know allowing your targets you know what is it that you're trying to accompl accomplish each day or each week you know slowly growing that as your success warrants it you know just you know that stair step that you were talking about you know that progress um so that you're you're adjusting as you go you know how much can i expect how much am i willing to risk you know what is my actual max loss right you know all of that is you know a calculation within yourself and to do that very strategically yeah yeah it has to be a slow and calculated process and and this all comes back to the fact that success in trading doesn't happen overnight right and so the question is are you willing to invest the time that is probably needed to get good at this and can you be patient with yourself through this learning curve and and be willing to face these aspects of yourself that are going to come to the surface that you didn't expect right and those who say yes to all those questions uh and i suppose also just have that combination of some natural aptitude and some a couple of the stars aligning you know become those who succeeded this we know it's just it's not something that happens for everyone but clearly mindset is a huge component so um what would you say if you're going to kind of throw just a percentage added skill mindset um hmm [Music] my immediate was i'd want to say 50 50. but i think it's probably more and it could be 30 70 30 skill 70 mindset um and the reason i say that is you know it goes back to that whole idea of survive until you thrive you know if you can really do this work the work with yourself you know the skills will will come you know can you keep yourself in the game right to develop those skills and that's that's generally what i've thought as well you know as always um it's not to make a guarantee that it's just a matter of time and just stick with it long enough because it's unfortunate right not the case i mean some people repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again yeah some people won't learn but i think that i i generally have had that thought process that it's if you can tread water long enough you'll learn to swim and i think that there's a lot of logic to that but it it's it's hard to say whether or not that's entirely the case i think it definitely depends on a willingness to uh address internal obstacles right and adapt to external factors in the market and we put all that right there's a lot of room to make mistakes well and that's and that's one thing that i would say we're gonna have to save that for next week i got you i got you it's uh we've come to the end of our session i i kept a real close close close eye on the time oh that's great no but i you could finish what you were saying um now it's good well one of the things in watching your journey and and what a joy it's been for me i mean to watch this whole process you know from back when you were literally just like every one of your students yeah and to see where you are today one of the things that i one of your greatest strengths that i feel like i've observed you know over all these years is that willingness to go you know when something changes when either a condition in the market changes or something within you changes you've always you know had this willingness to go all right what am i seeing here what do i need to learn how do i adapt i've watched you adapt to so many different changes and and every time it's it's like you've come through the other side sometimes being willing to go completely back to the drawing board as it were you know wow what i'm doing is not working what can i do differently right yeah yeah i think that that i think that that's i appreciate you saying that i i don't know if that's a um just a kind of personality thing with me that i think it's always it's just seeing opportunities and recognizing that i didn't fully capitalize on them and want to do better and also recognizing wow what i'm doing is not working like i need to stop doing what i'm doing right right you know i might have a period where gap and go is just not working every time and even right now we're having a lot of gap and rip to the halt up haul down or right if you rip them all down then halt up and it's like it's so crazy that was not the typical gap and go open but that's what's happening right now and i've sometimes i just wait it out sometimes i do track trays sometimes i get burned but you know it's just okay i got to adapt to this this is right you know once things happen a few times the traders kind of get into a rhythm of expecting it and then that expecting it becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy just through you know mob mentality of all the people in the market so there's a lot of stuff at play but i this has been great thank you ted i i hope you guys have tuned in and really enjoyed this um this is always a lot of fun i think we've got some some good stuff covered so you can tune in uh to listen to ted during uh mindful monday and fomo friday which we have recordings of uh but it's currently on the schedule schedule's subject to change and if you want to learn um more from ted or you want to schedule one-on-one sessions with ted or with diane you can go to wisemindtrading.com and that's right you guys can register and you get as a warrior pro student get a discount if you do hourly sessions with either ted or diane so awesome all right thanks ted all right i'm gonna stop the recording all right thanks guys well i hope you loved this interview with ted it was a lot of fun when i recorded that with him and i hope you check out the ted talk that ted and i did together where we talk about how to overcome these roadblocks and where we actually get into the details of trading strategy and the actual affirmative steps that you can take today to try to make your path towards trading a little bit smoother it doesn't have to be as difficult as many people make it for themselves get yourself into the right headspace the right traitor mindset check out that link right down below and we'll see you for the next episode here on the podcast