Every Financial Detail Of The Ecommerce Brand I'm Starting transcript

Okay, I've been excited to do this episode for a long time. I'm going to walk you through the actual financials of the brand that I am starting. I'm going to show you the brand, show you the product. I've referenced it a few times in the past. I've told you I'm building a supply chain, all those things. I'm going to show you all the way down to the actual cogs we are getting for this brand. And we're about to go place our first orders.

We're right on the edge. And I hope this will be the first in a long series of episodes I do where I'm taking you through little by little what we are doing in this business and how I'm thinking about it in e-commerce in general. and hopefully it'll be helpful for you. I think you're going to like this episode a lot if you are building a business and thinking about the financials of your business. Let's get into it. All right, every detail of my business as far as the details exist so far.

So, I'm going to tell you all about it right now. The brand is called Resolute. Uh, and Resolute is a solid cologne brand. I'm going to tell you what that is cuz if I've understood the market correctly, you probably don't know. And, uh, I I didn't know until somebody showed it to me, certainly. Um, and so I'm going to walk you through first before I get to some of the financials, I'm going to walk you through what the product is, uh, sort of how it works, what I like about it, what the market um, conditions are and and sort of the awareness of the category is, and then uh, from there I'll tell I'll tell you about the financials.

And the financials really is going to help you understand why I was interested in this business. Okay. So, um, so the product is solid cologne as a starting point. Now, I just want to say from the outset that solid cologne is the launch product. Doesn't mean it'll be the whole brand forever. It could be all kinds of men's personal care products. We could add liquid cologne at some point, but Solid Cologne is the starting point for the brand.

And it will be a brand, a fragrance brand, uh, aimed at men. And, uh, like I said, called Resolute. I'm going to show you. I'd like to do a whole another episode at some point that kind of walks through branding and and how we made some of the decisions we did and how I'm thinking about that. Maybe I'll bring on the designer who built the brand. He's awesome. Um, shout out Robbie Aronson, Aronson Designs. Um, but uh, but let me just show you the product first.

Okay, so this is Solid Cologne right here. This is a manufacturer sample. This one smells lovely and uh and and it is just like a regular cologne. In fact, the for the history of the world until like the mid- 20th century, this is what all cologne was. Like the earliest versions of cologne we have is is essentially solid compounds, a goop of some kind of balm of some kind, right? Um and the the balm uh is is how you would apply a cologne.

And so um it's it's a it's in fact a very long very old category of product. Um but of course most cologne now that men and and perfume that women wear is a spray um cologne. So um so this is what it is. What you do is you just take a little bit like that and then you apply it just like you would with regular cologne to your wrist. You do the same thing here to your wrist. You can do that like that. There you go. And now you smell fantastic.

Okay. It does smell great. It's beeswax. It's all clean. Uh the it's you know beeswax and essential oils basically is the core of what makes the product. And so yeah, that's what solid cologne is. We've got four scents that we're going to launch with to start uh four fragrances and um and I'm going to show you a couple other things about how we're going to launch in a little bit, but I want to talk a little bit before about sort of what it is that I like about this category.

You might be wondering like what in the world, Andrew, why are you launching a solid fragrance brand, a solid cologne brand? Um a long time ago, my friend Keith Knap, uh who I haven't talked to for a little while, so shout out Keith if you're watching this, but um Keith sent me he had been playing with starting a brand like this. Uh this is like a few years ago at least. Um, maybe like five years ago, Keith sent me uh a sample for a brand that he had been playing with as well.

And it was it was the first solid cologne I'd ever seen. And right away, I noticed by by the way, I should I should note this sample that I showed you is just a manufacturer sample. This is not the packaging. This is not how much that will come in each order or anything like that. It's just a sample. So, just just worth noting. Okay. So, anyway, Keith sent me his little products and I thought it was a really fascinating thing.

Um, and my e-commerce brain kind of went crazy on it right away. If you know anything about my story, you know I started at Kao and Kao was a silicone wedding company and I learned something really early on at at Kao uh you know with these with this product which was that if you could hit on an audience then having a product with gigantic gross margin um and and uh really good delivered margin, right? cost of delivery total uh that was very cheap to purchase at the level of inventory uh was a massive advantage in e-commerce.

Put another way um I learned early on that margin is magic that having massive gross margin is a huge advantage and is is a massive cheat code. And the thing I also learned about as Kao was that uh it was really easy to copy. So um over time other brands came in. Groove life and so rings um came and started selling a lot of silicone wedding rings as well and there's no IP on the product. There was some kind of limit in terms of how much Ka could really kind of keep scaling forever on that product at least the way that happened then.

And and and you know it's been a long time since that happened but um that's the case. So if you if you're wondering why there are so many skincare brands in e-commerce and just in the world, right? Um, one of the reasons is that the margin on the product is just gigantic. And people love high margin businesses, but that immediately creates a whole bunch of competition. And so I the thing I noticed about solid cologne was that it was really really great for uh for margin.

Like cologne and fragrances in general famously have extremely high margin. But the um the problem is that glass bottles of of cologne or of fragrance aren't as great for e-commerce. Because the other thing I learned from my Kalo days is that value to weight ratio was a massive advantage. Put another way, core to the model of e-commerce that makes e-commerce work as a business model is that you ship the product to the customer's door.

Which means if you are paying a ton of money to ship the product to the customer's door, it can destroy your margins particularly if you do not have a very high average order value. And therefore, uh, valuetoe ratio was is a really critical e-commerce metric for a margin efficient e-commerce business. And I thought something about solid cologne right away when I saw it, which was that it comes in a little container. You only send a little bit of it at a time, at least you can on the sort of higher ends of the market.

And because of that, um, it is very cheap to ship. So the product is both cheap to to make, the cogs are low as a matter of gross margin, okay, just raw gross margin. And on top of that, and I knew that going in, and on top of that, it's cheap to ship to a customer, relatively speaking. And therefore, um, it made for a really interesting e-commerce product because it has the margin profile of a perfect e-commerce brand.

And so, that is the very first thing I noticed about it. I noticed another thing about it, which of course is that it's a consumable. Uh I don't expect that this category will have an incredible LTV or anything like that. But if customers like in fact if they love and regularly wear Resolutes cologn then there's a good chance they will come back and buy more of them and it lasts a long time and and all those things. And so again I don't expect like a massive margin but there should be some amount of LTV in the business that is like solid.

That's a big question mark. I'm going to come back to that later but it should be solid. And so I kind of put all that together and thought to myself like this is a really interesting product specifically for e-commerce and it's a market that's not very flooded. And uh of course if you're wondering um well a couple other things before I before I say more about that. Okay. Um I also happen to love a few other things about this category.

Okay. I love subcategories within larger categories. Uh so this is there's a very large category called cologne. Uh it's $2 billion worth of uh men's colog. There's two it's a $2 billion industry in the US every year. Last I checked. Solid cologne is a much smaller part of it. And I love generally speaking, you don't have to convince the customer to do something in a new category. You don't have to you don't have to do that all together because they have an existing category and framework in their mind for this idea of cologne, right?

And they're already buying a whole lot of it, but you have a way of standing out and differentiating within that. And so, um, again, this goes back to my Kao days, but Kayla was silicone wedding rings, and it was a wedding ring. It was an entrance into a large existing market with a whole bunch of demand where there's a bunch of wedding ring demand. Um, but silicone wedding ringing was a new category and uh or functional wedding ringing or whatever it became.

Okay. And I noticed that that allowed us to speak to customers really fast, really quickly. Okay. Um, another thing I love about this category and that I noticed right away solid cologne is it's highly visual. The fact that you haven't heard of solid cologne before, I think is sort of an advantage in one particular sense. It's a disadvantage in plenty of senses, but in one particular sense, which is that you could make a lot of Facebook ads that show somebody doing what I just did, like showing this product, right? and saying something to the effect of this is a cologne and it's different than any cologne you've ever seen before and it's better.

Let me show you how it works. And then you could show somebody, you know, applying it, etc., and kind of talk them through the details of it while you do it. And so there's something uniquely visual about the product. Now, of course, the downside is they can't smell it. I'll talk more about that in a second, but uh but the visual nature of the product, I think, is is also interesting. Um, and uh, and I also just think there's some brand things here that for me personally I'm not going to get into so much in this episode, but that I'm attracted to um, in terms of some of my own thoughts about brand and values in the world and some of those things.

And so that'll that'll be for a future brand episode. But those are a lot of things that I I love about this brand and about this this category. It also happens to be something I can do with a friend of mine um, who I've who I've worked with for a long time, also an old Cao friend I've known for a long time. It's something we could sort of do on the side. And I should say from the beginning, this is not taking over AJ of Growth or anything.

This is uh this is definitely something on the side. Part of part of the thing I also love about this is that it allows me to create some content and show you things like this like I'm doing this episode so that you can see sort of how I'm thinking about e-commerce and this brand and can share any ads I want to share and all that stuff as that as that comes around. So, um that's a lot of what I love about it. I'm going to talk in a little bit about the downsides of this and how I think um it can go very wrong.

But I also want to tell you one more thing which is that part of the reason I am unafraid to share all of these financial details that I'm about to share with you that I think makes the business attractive and I am not afraid that you are going to rip it off um is because uh of this issue of being a subcategory within a larger category. I actually think that there's so much room in front of us in in front of uh this category and this brand, right, that um if you go and rip this off, uh it actually I think would probably help us.

And the reason why is that the number one way that Resolute succeeds in my view, uh succeeds beyond my expectations in particular, is that the category of solid cologne suddenly becomes hot and attractive. And if that happens, there will be some tailwind for a while. and we will be early enough to it to where it is okay with me if somebody else gets a larger slice of that pie. The good people at Fulton and Ror, for example, make probably I think the most solid clone of anybody right now.

They make a beautiful product. It smells great. It's all that I I'm thrilled for them to be doing that. I don't even think it's their main product, but uh I I love that that is happening. Um because uh because I want the category to grow because right now it is a tiny little slice of a $2 billion pie. um if that slice of the $2 billion pie, we don't even have to grow the pie. The two pie can stay at two billion as long as u the slice of solid cologne gets a little bit bigger along the way and there'll be plenty of of pie for for everybody to eat, so to speak, right?

I should kill that analogy. I'm driving it into the ground. All right, so those are the basics of uh of sort of how I'm thinking about this from an economic perspective. Now, let me show you more now that I've gone down this road a little bit and sampled a bunch of stuff. Um, now that I've gone through a little bit, I want to show you a little bit more about sort of the actual economic profile of this business. And I'm going to um show you these things right now.

And I want to tell you from the start that this supply chain was built basically entirely with my friends at Move Supply Chain, okay? Um, in the Philippines, they've done an incredible job. They sourced 60 manufacturers from uh for packaging from the start, 20 for the actual product um from the start uh and narrowed it down over time and got to the place that we got to now. And I'm pretty excited about it. Okay. So, let me let me show you um a couple things.

Uh before I can show you the actual econom economics, I need to show you the sort of way I expect customers to move through the product. Uh because that that will dictate for you um some of the financial inputs here. You know, I'm not doing this episode without an ad for my friends at Move Supply Chain who built this beautiful supply chain that is already humming, that is already uh at prices that I love and that has so much room for improvement over time as we start to scale.

And we're just keeping them on board. Honestly, we had them do a a project that was larger where they built the supply chain from the ground up. Uh and now we've just got them as an on ongoing member of the team to help um tighten these things up along the way. And the beauty of it all is that we could do it in a way that was not only at an extremely high level of quality, but that it is really affordable because Move Supply Chain is built in the Philippines uh is is based in the Philippines.

And Move uh also uh is uh staffed with people who have really deep supply chain experience. They've built e-commerce supply chains across a bunch of different um industries and categories in the past. And so they know what they're doing. And the thing is, like I told you earlier, right, they talked to 60 packaging manufacturers uh before we ever honed in on the one that we landed on. We've got backups in play already.

They had backups. They they flew to Vietnam to go check out options there once tariffs came in. Uh they're just really, really great. If you haven't done that kind of thing, like go and source multiple manufacturers for your packaging, for your product, those kinds of things. If you haven't talked to more than, let's call it, 10 yourself, you should just get on a call with Move Supply Chain and see what they can do for you.

Here's what Lara Gavvara, the head of Move Supply Chain, who you've heard on this podcast before. Here's what Lara tells me about discovery calls with Move. What she says is she's normally smiling to herself on the call because as the customer starts describing their supply chain, she knows right away they can help a whole bunch and they can do it at a level that is affordable for the client. Like she says that every time.

It's just she just sees the holes in it right away cuz she's so experienced and her team is so good. Moveuplychain.com. Go to moveupplychain.com to get started today. save on your COGS, get better terms, get high lowerQS, all of the things that you need to do to build a cashefficient uh supply chain in your business. Go do it right now. Move supplychain.com. Get started. So, I'm going to share my screen. If you are uh just listening to this, that's okay.

I'm going to do my very best to uh I'm going to do my very best to walk you through it, but let's see here. So, all right, here we go. So, um so this is how I how I expect customers to go through it. Actually, we'll we'll go to this one first. Um because there's this drawback that one of the most obvious drawbacks of this is that is that a customer cannot smell the product before they buy it. Um it seems to me to be necessary to start people with a sample pack.

In fact, this has really been one of the things that has um slowed down the launch of this product is that we came to this kind of late. We were thinking about launching without this and eventually I just said I just don't think we'll get a true test of whether or not this can work uh unless we actually launch with a sample pack. So I'm going to show a little video here. The audio is not important. Um, but what you can see if you're watching this, right, is a a manufacturer sample of what a sample pack we expect to look like.

U, we'll probably change the language on this by the time we actually order it, but it's very close. It's magnetized, excuse me, it's a pullout drawer. It's not magnetized. Customer will get that. There'll be four spots for each of the four colog that we're scents that we're going to launch with. And the customer will get all four of them in a very small amount. and then they'll be able to uh check out which one they like the best um and then reorder from there.

So that is I think step one of how I expect customers to move through this over time. Of course this will change. We'll we'll probably have more samples in there as we launch more scents. There's a lot of different stuff that'll happen in time, but that's the basic concept. Okay. Um number two, what I expect then to happen is for customers to buy um their second order, which will be their actual package um with this.

And I think this is really cool. But what you can see here is a wood and aluminum package. This is the most expensive thing that we're buying Cogswe. This was customd designed by Robbie Arensson, the guy who's building this brand. Um, and you see it's an aluminum top and a wood box bottom with a container in the middle. And the container is where the where the cologne would be. And uh it's pretty slim. And this is one of the advantages of solid cologne as a category.

So um this allows me to get into a little bit explanation of what I like about this category. Okay. So um or what I like about this product. I actually do think solid cologne has a lot to offer that as I've as I've sort of learned and dug into this and before we really started sampling started trying to understand a little bit more about why would somebody buy solid cologne instead of a spray cologne. Well, there's actually some good answers to that question.

The first is we can make this with entirely clean ingredients. Okay. Um and I I'm really fascinated by that. Again, I'm going to talk more about that in a little bit about how I think that plays into the potential of Resolute, but um it's it's actually really that most almost all spray fragrances have a whole bunch of synthetic stuff in there. you won't see a lot of ingredient listings. In fact, fragrance, the word fragrance is a trade secret like alcohol blends are, right?

So, if you, you know, if you go buy um a uh, you know, most like pre-made cocktails or basically any pre-made cocktails, they won't tell you what ingredients are in it unless they're actively advertising that their ingredients are pretty clean. And that's because there's a trade secret element. Fragrance works the same way. You can put the word fragrance on the back of a package, and it's certainly regulated. You can't put anything you want in there, right? can't put mercury in it.

But you um but so that it's not that there's it's not that everything is fair game. It's just that within that you don't have to disclose it. And so most spray fragrances have a bunch of synthetic chemicals in them, endocrine disruptors, all that kind of stuff that you know some research suggests is pretty harmful. And I think um I don't I'm not going to go too far on the claims here, but uh but it was actually kind of a wild thing to read about because there's pretty strong evidence that it's not real good for you.

So um so uh maybe I'm just talking my book there. Um there's probably more research for me to do, but um but you know, it's really interesting. So with solid cologne, you can sort of skirt all that because I can use basically a mix of all clean ingredients, including essential oils, beeswax, things like that. You can rub it right on your skin, direct contact with your skin, and and really have no issues that anybody can see uh because of the the cleanliness of the ingredients.

The other thing is, as you see here, it's really transportable. Um, I was talking with Taylor Holiday about this product a long time ago and he told me this story once about how he's sort of annoyed at trying to take his he he wears he wears a cologne every day. Um, he's annoyed at trying to take his cologne with him to different places. Like one time he said his bottle of spray cologne um dropped or or flipped over, the lid came off or broke or something in his do kit that he was traveling with and it got all over all of his stuff, including his toothbrush, you know, and um and he said it was a huge mess and it's really hard to take it with you.

If you go to the gym before you go to work, spray cologne can be annoying to carry around or you have to keep it in your desk and then runs out there or whatever it is. Um, one thing I love about this idea of solid cologne is that you can take this with you um, wherever you go. And we expect actually, we think there'll be a really cool thing here where um, the the this container, this packaging um, will be something that people hold on to and will patina and people's like unique ways.

So, it'll really be kind of become yours um, and as part of as part of uh, sort of your stuff that's with you and and have a little bit of your own personality to it um, as you as you use it. So you can throw this really easily in your bag, in your backpack, in your gym bag, whatever it is. Take it with you. Take it with you if you want to refresh throughout the day. We expect the cologne to last for about 4 hours. It's kind of what we're targeting in terms of the strength of the fragrance.

Much more than that, it becomes a little too strong. Um, and you know, everybody's been around the guy who's like or or or the gal or whatever who who's like wearing too much fragrance and it's like overwhelming. So, if you, you know, we want to try and hit that sweet spot where it's about one reapplication in the middle of the day if you're wearing it and you stay kind of fresh, you smell good without ever being overpowering.

Um, and so this could go with you really easily. We think the packaging is awesome. We really are excited about it's real wood. It's real aluminum. Um, and it's magnetized. It's really sort of delightful to play with. I I wish I had this. We actually sending this back to the manufacturer to go make scale now. But, um, but the the manufacturer did a killer job uh executing Robbie's design. the magnets on there are really satisfying.

It kind of snaps into place as you can see in the image and it's just really cool. So, um so that's another thing we really love about this is sort of the transportability. Um on top of that, we also think that there's this element of it that um that that I think, you know, for me, I've never been a cologne guy and and it's always just felt kind of weird to do spray fragrance. Like it just has felt like not me. Like I'm just not I'm certainly not a designer cologne person.

I'm just not that's not really my style. Um, and yet I I do like like the experience of like smelling good if I'm going to go into a work setting or whatever. I'm not gonna I'm not I don't dress up much. You know, I'm typically wearing my hat, whatever, but just a little touch of something to sort of make myself a little bit more presentable, I think, is is really good. So that's kind of who we're aiming at is guys who maybe haven't typically worn cologne and it will definitely create some mad angles around this but who who would like to and who don't know where to start and where maybe this is a little more accessible of a starting point for them than than other spray cologn than you know going and buying a bottle of of you know something from Calvin Klein or something like that.

So uh so there's a few things that we like there. So this would be step two, right? So you get your you'd get your um you get your your sample pack, you would find the one you like. you go order this and now it comes in this box in this packaging and um and becomes this, you know, sort of cool unique experience that's really yours. Of course, it's real wood, so each piece of wood is going to be a little bit different.

All those things are true. And then over time, what you would do is refill it, right? And because you refill it, your repeat orders will be a little less expensive. They'll it'll slide right into that box and you don't have to go reby the the actual materials box again. Okay? So, um that's that's the way we expect customers to move through it, which means there's a three-step process. They'll go number one sample pack for most customers.

Of course, this won't be everybody. Number one sample pack, number two, full packaging, number three, uh, the refill packs. Okay. And I don't, you know, I don't, we may run a subscription offer or something cuz might as well. But I don't expect that to really be um, a core driver of the way that we generate LTV in this business. I think it'll last too long for subscription to be a very good purchase mechanism for our customers.

So um, so yeah. So, let's get into then the actual financials now that I've sort of explained all that because the financials are um are really critical. And I want to tell you right now that this unit economics sheet that does all of this math for you. Okay. Um the this this unit economics sheet uh is available for you if you would like to use it. You just go to my website afgrowth.com and uh sign up for my email list and I'll I'll email this to you and you can duplicate it.

Uh it's slightly modified from this, but you can I'll email it to you. you can duplicate it and then you can uh and then you can fill it out for yourself in your business if it's useful for you. So I use this with all my clients as well. And on that note, like you should might as well just go do that. Like you'll get my newsletter. You'd be able to stay up with my content around this around Resolute among other things.

If you like this content, um you're going to like that for that matter. While I'm at it, you should like, comment, subscribe. I would specifically love your comments on this episode. I am really curious to hear what thoughts people have about this brand. And I am uh I do not have thin skin about this, right? Uh so so tell me if you think I'm an idiot. I'd love to hear. Just drop in the comments. I will read them all and we'll interact.

Okay. So um so yeah. Uh okay. So uh those are nonsense. Those don't matter. There you go. Um so here's the way this will work. So I'm going to walk through all of this again. Um and so you can see kind of how I'm thinking about this. Uh first of all, disregard the returning customer rate on this sheet. That is in here. It is a completely madeup number. I have 35%. I think that's going to be that would be the number of orders that are coming from returning customers, not the number of customers that actually return.

Um, we'll see. It could be high, could be low. I it just who who even knows over time. Okay. Um, so don't worry about that really right now. That's just the way this sheet is built. Okay. So, let's just talk through what appealed to me about this product in this category because that is the really the critical thing. And so, let's start with the sample set. Now, there's a gigantic question mark in all of this, which is how much are we going to be able to charge for this product?

I'm going to come back to that in a little bit. So, for now, just going to tell you the launch prices we're thinking about, and we'll talk about price in a little bit. Okay? But, um, if we were able to get $50 for the first purchase sample set, okay? Um, the pack the cologne itself in that set, we expect to be about $2.50. Okay? And then the cost of goods for the packaging would be about a buck 50. Okay?$153. That's where that comes in.

So that means out the door and then there's a 30% tariff. Of course, it's going to be made in China. So out the door, you're looking at about 9% uh COGS, like actual gross uh 91% gross margin um off the actual product itself. The other thing I want you to know about this sheet from the start is that this is all with our actual like literals. like we are ordering the smallest amount of this product that we possibly are allowed to order because neither Greg, my co-founder, nor I are like drowning in cash to throw at this, right?

We we are not like taking a huge bet on this. It's like we're going to make a small bet to start and see if we can move any of this stuff. And again, I'm going to come back to sort of uh the possibility that we can't. Um and if we can, then we'll push in a little bit more. So it is very very easy to imagine a world where that packaging comes down to 75 cents or something like that and we get a bunch of margin back right away.

So just to note from the beginning that um that in all of these cases we are talking about the most we will ever pay for this packaging and for this product. Okay, so that's really critical. So you've got the tariff built in with uh 30 cents. Uh merchant fees 2.9% of course with enough scale we'll get that 2.9 down to 2.1% etc. plus 30 cents on every order. Customer returns, I have estimated conservatively at 5%. I think it's actually pretty likely that customers will return much less than 5% of the product.

And when I see men's personal care products, the return rate is very, very low. Um, so I I don't think 5% is very likely. Um, and then shipping costs, I've got it at six bucks. This is going to be the most expensive thing to ship because it's a larger um box. And then fulfillment cost $2. we're actually going to self-fulfill it first, but at some, you know, essentially advertising the cost of a human to do that out of somebody's garage to start um will take us take us there as well.

Um there's all kinds of ways in which you know that could change over time, but that's the basic idea. So, we would launch that with 67 points of margin again at ourQ with no price testing. All right, so that's the place that we are are starting and that's that's that's what I would um show you there. That is good. That's landed to the customer and there's a lot of ways this gets better. I'm going to show you how I think this could happen, okay?

Over time with more volume. It's very easy to imagine this getting to something like 175 for the actual product itself. Again, that would require some additional volume. Uh 75 cents to a dollar. We'll call this a dollar for the packaging. Um hopefully tariffs go down at some point. That would be really nice, too. Uh we can get merchant fees down to 2.1% with scale. Customer returns go to 2%. That go that ends up being really good.

And we'll leave the rest where it is because because who knows? But that now now gets you to 73 points of margin with I think not that much more scale. There's also other things we could do, we could redesign the packaging, all that kind of stuff as well. But um that's a good starting point. The other thing that could happen here that would really help us is if it turns out we can get 60 bucks for the whole thing on on launch.

That would be really helpful as well. So that's where that comes in at. Okay. Um then uh then secondly, the full packaging. So this is the wood box with the aluminum uh top. This is by far that piece is the most expensive thing we have. So cologne here, we're going to keep it about the same amount. It's probably slightly different, but that gets you basically to there. The packaging starts again at $55. That's all in um including uh freight to uh freight in inbound freight to us.

We expect uh that number to also be able to go way down over time. This is probably the single place in the business where I expect economy of scale to kick in the most. Um, again, it's also possible that we could do some things on the design side to help with this, but this is where like getting a bill of materials, um, working with, uh, suppliers to find their suppliers, all of those kinds of things over time could really help us.

This is like ordering a thousand units and that's it. And, uh, and seeing what we get to. So, um, so even there on launch, um, you're you're in a decent spot. Uh, again, everything else stays the same pretty much, and you get down to, uh, uh, 69 points of margin landed to the customer. Again, the other big out outlier here is that we're going to launch with a 0.5 ounce um container. Actually, like the bigger guys here who are on the higher more luxury end are actually only at 02 ounces.

And so we may um find some ways at some point to either charge more for that.5 ounces or bring that cost um or or do less uh uh product per unit. There's a couple things we could do there. Shrink the box a little bit. That would help us, etc. We'll see over time. Again, even if we can get that number to $65, uh you you get a couple points of margin back right away. Okay, the refill is where especially the margin comes in.

This is not going to be surprising because uh every business in e-commerce pretty much has massive margin for returning customers, right? Returning customers is where you make your money in an e-commerce business overwhelmingly in most cases. Um and it's just really high CM. And so, uh, and so in this case, we expect that to make the refill closer to $45. Again, that could actually come up. Uh, that's basically telling the customer, this is the exact same amount of cologne as, um, as the full packaging one, but in this case, we're telling customers, you're basically paying 15 bucks for the box, which we maybe don't want to do.

If that comes up to $55, then we're really cooking. Um, so we'll see kind of where that comes in at. So again, I'm going to talk more about how we're going to handle price going forward because it's one of the big outstanding questions for me about the business. But that gives you some sense of of how we're thinking about everything else comes the same at this point. Now you're talking about a refill tin in a cardboard box that is will look nice, but it will be really simple and that becomes that eliminates the packaging cost drastically and becomes much cheaper. put it all together and if we look at this at the level of rorowass targets and just have some simple things here, um you've got a first purchase break even on that first order of about a one and a half.

Um and that is really really compelling to me because if you can win at a one and a if you can be break even at a one and a half on launch, not really win, um and even be um positive at a 1.8 while you're starting to build before you have a dollar of returning customer revenue, uh you could be in really really good shape. So that's um that's the way these this whole thing looks. Uh and this is part of what's so compelling about it to me is that it's just a relatively low target from launch.

And I want to again shout out move supply chain here who has done an incredible job helping us think about um where uh where this is going to um how this is going to work. We've got backup suppliers in place. We're starting to look in Vietnam just in case there's any um tariff savings there. Probably we need a little more volume for some of those things. We're going to keep working with them over time to really stay on top of this because I think this these numbers can all come down a bunch.

And there is really a world where like let's just uh do this really simply uh for now. Uh here we'll just go $60 there. $60 on the first purchase and we'll make it uh 50 and $2. There's like a world here where you get down to, you know, 75 76 points of margin and now your first purchase break even comes to a 1.3 and that would be uh really really great. Uh that's where you can really be making money. Um even at 20% above break even being a 1.6.

So uh again with some scale there's a lot of possibilities here. So, that gives you a sense of the reason that I'm excited about this business is that um I'm working with a client now that is a really high margin business and it just makes everything in your life so much easier. And so, I'm really interested in seeing what we can make happen there. Um, now the biggest margin challenge we actually have here is actually not the packaging.

If you look at this again, what you'll see the biggest margin challenge we have here is still shipping relative to the AOV. And so another thing over time that we could build into the product set, and this is something that's missing right now and is a question mark for me, is like upsells, uh, bundles, those kinds of things that could help us perhaps to push the AOV up over more time. That would be something that would really help because, uh, you know, if it's going to cost us five to six bucks to ship this, then, um, that is that is the actually the largest margin hit.

Even if you pass that cost to the customer, um, you know, you end up still in a spot where it's like a one to one margin hit um, on on on that. So, um, that's something that we're going to definitely look at over time, but again, just trying to kind of get an MVP for launch. So, there you go. Um, critically also here, the other thing I want you to notice about this is that there's actually an advantage to that shipping cost being the biggest cost, which is that this business for an e-commerce business can and should be very cashefficient.

And what I mean by that is that when your actual raw COGS, the thing you're paying for ahead of time before you get money from a customer, when those are so low, it makes it much easier to make your business cash efficient. You can move cash to the business because the classic cash problem of scaling e-commerce businesses, right, is fronting the money for inventory in the future. But if the actual inventory costs themselves are pretty low as a percentage of the total revenue that you're driving, well, it's actually not such a big cash problem in the business because you're setting aside very little of the revenue you're making um to to buy future inventory.

And uh and of course, because I'm not trying to blitz scale this or anything like that, I expect to be acquiring customers profitably, you know, if it if it works, right? Uh that that profitable customer acquisition will be something we do from the jump. This is not an LTV kind of business or something. So if we're acquiring customers profitably and we have uh very low cogs as a percentage of revenue again all the more so as it scales and we get some economy to scale uh then u then we can be in a spot where um this is actually a business that I think you could do really well with on on cash.

I mentioned I have a client that's that has a really high margin business somewhere around here maybe even a little better and it's just been so it's it's a very similar margin profile where like they do have some costs and they don't have like 90 points of margin landed to the customer or anything crazy like that. Uh but because the actual product itself is so low cost, it means that they basically never get into inventory trouble.

In fact, they have a really strong incentive to never run out of inventory and it makes their lives a lot easier all the way around. So, um so that's another thing I'm really excited about about this category because of course, um cash movement is one of the fundamental problems in an e-commerce business. And so, yeah, so that's a that's another aspect of this that I think is is really compelling. All right. Uh let me talk you through now a little bit of the P&L model and the way that we're thinking about how those unit economics ladder to different scenarios in the business itself.

And this this is probably the part of this episode where it is just the most um guesswork. Okay, I don't know how this is going to work, right? Because the reason I don't know how it's going to work is because I don't know what the LTV is going to be and I don't know um you know what kind of revenue we're actually going to be able to get. I don't even know what the price is going to be. There's going to be some COG questions along the way, but I've given I've got a scenario here that I want to show you that that may help uh a little bit to to get a sense also of how we're thinking about the not only the unit economics, but the design of the business.

So, I'm going to share my screen one more time. Again, if you're just listening to this, I'm going to talk through it, but um but uh here is sort of a quick look at how I expect the business to potentially play out at the level of the full P&L if things go reasonably well, right? And I've just given three scenarios here. a $5 million, $10 million, $15 million scenario. Uh, you know, below 5 million, like it's just not really worth talking about too much because it's not really the state that we're going to want to be in for very long if if we're there.

Um, it is not the kind of business we're trying to build towards. Um, but, uh, but in this scenario, um, I'm thinking about this very much in terms of four quarter accounting and what makes a good e-commerce P&L. Uh, four quarter accounting term coined by Taylor a long time ago and, um, I don't know if he got them somewhere else or not, but just the basic idea, right? There's four buckets in your e-commerce P&L, four quarters to it, four sections of it.

Uh the first one of those um after revenue, right, is your COGS, and we'll call that full cost of delivery. That includes everything involved, uh that I just showed you in the unit economic sheet, including merchant account fees, shipping, uh consideration for returns, all those things. Uh advertising, uh obviously being the number two, so CAC, number three would be opex, and then um and then number four would uh would be profit.

And so those are the four quarters. And there's a really specific way I'm thinking about this kind of e-commerce business working and that is um that we would want to run the business with a relatively high investment uh with uh low COGS, high investment in CAC and low opex. And so I'm just giving a basic scenario here that again I like to forecast this thing kind of conservatively. But what what I'll show you here is that like at 5 million and uh 69 points of gross margin, which I think is very reasonable even at that level of scale.

I mean there's massive cost savings. I can just tell you because I have the term sheets or I have the um the the price quotes from manufacturers that even going from ordering a thousand units to 3,000 units to 5,000 units, we get a massive um cost reductions on pretty much everything I just showed you. So, uh so if um so so I think this margin hitting 69 points of margin uh is is landed margin to the customer is is really not going to be very difficult to achieve. uh depending on also the composition of orders.

Of course, the more of that third refill order we have in the mix, the better our margin is going to look on the whole. So, if we can actually get customers to go all the way through that cycle, we'll be in really good shape. Um so, we'll see. But if we can get there, I think that's pretty achievable. Ad spend at 40% of revenue. Now, the larger the returning customer revenue uh part of the pie is, the more that number the ad spend number will probably go down and um as a percentage of revenue, which would be which would be good.

But just as again kind sort of conservative just say like we're going to live at a 2 and a half me in the business while we're while we're scaling it and trying to get some economy of scale etc. U that takes you to contribution margin at 27% in all of these scenarios. And then the place where I really built in sort of some additional economy of scale in each of the scenarios is um is in the in in opex. And this is a critical consideration for me in the way I'm thinking about an e-commerce business.

So I'm saying at 5 million in revenue we would have 13% of our money in opex. I really wouldn't let that number go above 15%. And um and this is so important to understand that from the start, one of the things we're thinking about here is that um low opex as a percentage of revenue is is like a critical part of the way you build an e-commerce business. And Taylor actually we did a podcast episode a while ago where he was um you know sort of expressing uh some criticism to me about this concept in in the business because he's saying well you would be too expensive if you were actually working in this business you know whatever.

Well, first of all, I don't expect to work on it full-time. Secondly, if my salary is part of that what happens in the business or distributions to me, well, that's fine because that's the point of the business, right? Is for to distribute to me and to my partner Greg. And um and so it's it's okay with me if I'm like faking it on that because that's just sort of how the business works in terms of generating revenue for a profit for for me and for Greg.

So anyway, 13% here at 5 million I think is very achievable. And I've got us at 10% opex at 10 and 15 million. And I resisted going lower than that. But here's the actual truth. I think you can and should go lower than 10%. And this is one of the big bets I would make about ecom right now, which is that with a with an outsourced team overseas plus the advancements in AI that are happening right now, it is going to be possible.

And if and if you're disciplined about software bloat, if you do those three things while working remote, you've got no office, then you can keep your opex really, really low and generate a bunch of profit in an e-commerce business. And I think these numbers may be conservative. As it stands, I've got us at 5 million in revenue with 700,000 in profit, 14% uh like actual operating income bottom line at 10 million in revenue, 17%.

So 1.7 million at 15 million uh 2 and a half million in revenue, 2 and a half million in profit again 17%. So um that those are the scenarios that I'm interested in. And if we can shave off X lower, if we can get gross margin lower, etc., I think that would all be pretty reasonable. Now, we're not going to build a $15 million business overnight, but this is the way I'm thinking about how this possibly could scale um for us.

And the reason why it's attractive to me is because um is because it when when you start off with a high gross margin and if you're disciplined about OPEX and you acquire customers profitably, if you do those three things, then you can run a really efficient e-commerce business that actually generates um some serious uh operating income. If you can do all of that while at the same time uh having low COGS, then then theoretically you can cash flow it pretty pretty reasonably as well.

And so that's where this becomes an appealing thing. So where I don't know if it's going to work, it's worth the bet. Um because the the upside on that possibility without building a huge business um is really interesting to me. Uh in the midst of this, one of my core advantages and I'm convinced of this is my relationship with more staffing and move supply chain in the Philippines uh and and behind the scenes studio.

Like I I just can't say this enough. Those those people have been advertisers on my podcasts for a long time and I have used them in every part of my business. I'm I am literally working with all three of the sister companies that are the Philippines um based hiring teams that are that have deep e-commerce experience that I've worked with for a while. I've got designers and I'm starting with creative strategists at AJF Growth is one of them now.

I've got video editors. I've got um uh people who have built both the uh the supply chains for the cologne itself plus the uh the packaging uh and then just uh other other team members as well along the way. Certainly we'll look at other aspects of the business like customer service. We'll look at um all kinds of different things and um I've got you know media buying assistant uh there all kinds of different elements of the business that are interesting to me and our mentality is going to be Philippines first.

And if we do that combined with uh combined with uh being disciplined in the other ways that I've said and using AI and integrating that um to make processes smooth and simple and again resist software bloat then man I think we could build a business that is really good with really really lean opex and that has a really awesome team because I don't think that you have to sacrifice quality to go hire in the Philippines.

Like I've just been amazed at the quality of employees that I've had across my business there. Um, and if we could do that really well to where really Greg and I are the primary US-based employees, maybe not the only ones forever, but but overwhelmingly we'll think that way, um, then then we can really build a great business. So, that low opex part is a really critical part of the model and part of what what makes me excited about the business.

All right, let me tell you the outstanding questions. I've referenced a couple of them that I just don't know about. There's there's really two of them um before I get to what I think of as the real threats to the business and the upside of the business. So, these are just sort of unanswered questions more than more than what I think of as true threats. The first is price. Um, you know, if you if I was to show you the pricing makeup of this market, you you would see that we're sort of upper middle.

Uh, there's some low-end guys uh that are, you know, 20 bucks for like two two ounces of it at a time. There's some higherend stuff that's, you know, when you do the actual price per ounce math, it's like a few hundred price per ounce, something like that. We'd be um, you know, closer to hundred bucks per ounce, somewhere in that range. So, we'd be upper middle. that's partly a brand consideration etc. But the truth is I really don't know what the price that we're going to be able to command for this product is and and what the best way to approach that is from a marketing perspective.

Um and I will tell you that what I plan to do from this uh is to launch with Intelligjam's price testing pretty much from day one. Intelligjs has also been a sponsor of this show for a while. Another uh software company I'm just like really happy to work with. They are just great. And all literally all of my clients are using them, including some of them for price testing. And uh and it's just one of those things that I just think from the start, every brand ought to be thinking about building tests in right away, launching tests, and learning what they can from day one because it's just so valuable.

That's a piece of software I'd be happy to pay for um because of just how valuable that price testing knowledge is going to be at the level of margin. So there's that. I love Intellig. It is one of the only pieces of software that I am thinking about starting with that's not like a true necessity from the jump uh for this business. And that's because it just seems to me that brands that are serious about optimizing the value of their traffic for profit in their business should be using Intelligjam all the time to be running a whole host of tests.

I already told you about one of the ones that I'm planning on doing from the from the beginning, which is a price test. As I showed there, price has a monster impact on your margin. And I bet you have not thought that hard about how much you should price or at least you picked it out just like randomly. I've thought a lot about the price of this product and I still think I might be wrong about what we are charging from the beginning and what is actually going to generate the highest profit per visitor.

And so I know from the jump I should be using Intelljs. I have other questions though too. What should our sitewide offer be? Like should we do a 10% off if you enter your email address? I don't know but I know how to test it with Intellams. Like it's just do it from the beginning. How much should I charge for shipping or should I do free shipping for all products? I don't know the answer to that question either. I know that there is an answer and that intelligence can help me find it and that it can do all of those things while being very easy to install and totally within reason price-wise.

It is an awesome piece of software and that's before you even talk about all of the basic CRO that it can do as well. It will input it will measure all of these things at the level of profit per visitor, not just revenue per visitor. So I can see not just that I'm driving a higher conversion rate or more revenue, but that I'm actually generating more profit because it ties into your COGS data in Shopify. It's just great.

Go to intelliggeems.io and use the code ferris 20 f a r i s20 today to get started with intelligence now. Make it a regular part of your brand's process. Be testing all of these needlemoving type things in your business with your customers to deliver a great service to your customers at the highest profit you possibly can back for your business. Like I said, Ferris 20 gets you 20% off your first three months. Intelligj.io.

The link's in the show notes. go check it out. Um, longer term, we're going to need something to help drive AOV and just have upsell offers, post-purchase, uh, upsells, that kind of thing. I just think that's going to be an issue in this uh, business that that we're going to need to work on. I can think of a few things that may work for this, but but yeah, it's it's uh, it's it's going to be an important need and and that's where I think if the brand goes really great, we will think about expanding into spray cologn as well as um, as well as other men's personal care products, etc.

That's what many of these brands are doing that are that are sort of competitors to this. Who knows? Maybe we won't. Maybe we'll just live here forever. Um and and we'll see. But um but there's that. Okay. So price is a big question to me. I really don't know what we can command. I have some ideas about what I want to charge customers, what I think positions the brand well, and that's where we're going to start. And there's there's reasons I've picked that.

Again, I'm going to resist going down that pathway. There's there's reasons be including margin, but beyond margin that I've picked the numbers I've picked here, but um but just just worth noting. It's an outstanding question to me. I think that could be a really big factor in whether or not this is successful that's really hard to judge in advance. Number two is LTV. Um I you know I I just it's another thing where uh I I've seen a little bit of behind the scenes from some some brands that are in this category.

The LTV does not look awesome on it. On the other hand, they have different amounts of it than I do. They're charging different prices. I don't expect this, like I said, to be monster. Um but man, it would be really good if we could get it to 40% LTV in a year. like, you know, in terms of uh in terms of the actual revenue amount, not just the returning customer percentage, like 40 and 50% would be would be great. That would be a that would be a dream scenario for me, I think, because um I don't know, maybe we can get above that.

I I just it seems unlikely to me. We'll see if we have some real uh if people really love it, that would be um that would be awesome. So, um so those are two questions for me that I just don't know. Uh and and and maybe that's just impost men's personal care is pretty pretty low LTV, even if it's consumable. So far as I can see, the goals for the business are relatively restrained. If we got that $10 million outcome with, you know, 1.7 and bottom line profit while keeping it basically a side gig, I would be thrilled at that.

That would be an incredible outcome. If I could do that, use it to show um you know, uh folks, you know, have a sandbox to play with some ideas with, use it to show folks, um what I'm doing on this podcast and in my agency. That would be awesome. Uh that would be just really fantastic. Um and if we got there, I know Greg would feel the same way that we would be really really happy with that kind of an outcome. Um, but there's that that said, I have thought about the question of like how do we get a 95th percentile outcome here?

How would it go amazing? And um and I think there's a couple things that would that would lead to that. The first is and this is actually a big question for me is um we deliver a great product that customers love. This is one of the core things that I've just thought about a lot that is like I'm really eager to get feedback uh from customers once we actually have this and I'll announce it when when we actually go live and I will I will probably send out people who are listeners to the show some seeding uh uh some some examples of of products so that you can try it for yourself or do like an AJF growth AJF interference podcast listener discount or something like that because I'm going to want to get into people's hands and get real feedback as soon as I And um I'm really curious how they're going to respond.

I really like the scents. My wife likes the scents. Most of them. She doesn't like one or two of them that I wear. Um but um we've found a bunch of folks u Greg and his wife like mo most of the scents. And people have different preferences so far of the four that we think we're going to launch with. Some people really love scent one. Some people love scent two, scent threes and four, etc. I think that's a good sign that we're kind of hitting different people's um tastes.

Almost nobody at this point in the process of manufacturer we've found thinks they're bad. Uh, so, but I'm really curious to see how this plays with people who are more experienced with cologne, etc. I'll tell you, uh, one of my, um, co-workers at AJF Growth, my sort of my right-hand man, Daniel, who's just the best, uh, his wife has an extremely strong sense of smell and, uh, and and, you know, can sort of taste the region that coffee came from, uh, just just on, you know, drinking black coffee, can just, oh, that's from Kenya, whatever, you know, amazing, amazing.

And so, we've we've contracted her as our smellier. We we that's the joke we've been making that uh, we're asking her for her feedback. She likes the sense a lot. So that's really good. She thinks it's really good. So there's that. I also think at a brand level, which I haven't really gotten into here, that the message resonates. If we get those two things right, brand and product, then we're going to be in really good shape.

And I think that gets us to an 80th percentile outcome or something like that, right? But there's another thing that I've thought about a lot uh that I think would be the tailwind that would get us to a 95th percentile outcome, and that is some kind of larger adoption of solid cologne, probably powered by um men. uh having an uptake and interest in clean products. Obviously, women's personal care products have been moving towards clean products and like clean ingredients and things like that for a long time.

But the thing I've thought about is like I wonder if I I don't think that has caught on quite as much with men now. I know for sure that by the way a lot of women will be buying this for their boyfriends and husbands etc. Right? Um and so so there's that. But if if that um and so so maybe actually female customers who are already accustomed to the clean ingredient messaging would be really attracted to saying like hey I want to get this for my husband or boyfriend uh because I'm the one who I'm this is something I already value in my products and I value in his too I don't want him to have endocrine disruptors or whatever right so if that happens that I think is the way that this gets this really gets powered because we'd be able to make very strong claims and we actually expect to go and and not hide our ingredients in the fragrance we we're going to our plan is to every ingredient in our products on the label and on the PDP really clearly and make a big deal out of that from a marketing perspective.

Show people, hey, you can really trust this product that you're putting something on your skin and on your body that you should feel good about. So, um, so if that me if that resonates well with with people probably from tailwinds of an uptick of men adopting clean products, I think that's a way that we could really do well here. So, anything else that made uh suddenly men adopt solid cologne would be great, but that if I was going to guess at the mechanism, that would be the guess.

Now, I don't think that's going to happen. And why do I say that? Because that's what I mean by 95th percentile outcome, right? That's by definition. I'm saying that's an unlikely thing. But that's the way this goes beyond my expectations. I think great product brand that resonates and and uh and then something like that that happens culturally um around those things. Okay. How it goes terribly. Um this is an important question, too.

And and I'm I'm I shouldn't end on a bad note, but I'm going to do it anyway because I want you to know that uh that I'm definitely thinking about this as I'm doing this. Okay. Um, how does this go really really badly? Okay. Um, the first and most obvious is is the opposite of what I said before, which is that the product is bad. Uh, listen, I'm not deep on fragrance and cologne. I've worn cologne very few times in my life before.

Now I've worn it a lot, but uh but before this, okay, so uh so that's not something that I've like thought a lot about and I've kind of wondered like are we going to go to market and have people just laugh at like, oh this is terrible or whatever. I don't think that's going to happen uh because we've tested it a decent amount, but that would be one possibility. Okay. Um, another uh another way this goes badly is that the LTV is really bad and that it becomes really hard to scale.

Even if we have great margin, we just have to exist at such a high rorowass to make any money that it just becomes a customer acquisition machine all the time. Now, we'd be well suited for that, right? Like part of the core advantage that I'm coming in here with is a bunch of meta ads experience. I know exactly how I'm going to do the media buying. I have a bunch of ideas for creative and we'll probably run it through AF Growth and pay a growth or full fees of course.

Um, but uh maybe not from the jump, right? probably AJF growth would be um too expensive for for uh for resolute to start but uh but but there'd be a bunch of ways in which I think in the beginning um that uh that uh if the LTV is terrible then then it could make it so that it is hard to scale. I don't think it's going to be like uh disastrously bad but but you know again lastly though there's there's one more uh way that this is this goes badly and it's the most obvious way this goes badly besides bad product etc.

It's the most obvious way this goes badly besides bad product etc. And um and it's it's like I said really obvious and it's that there's just no interest in solid cologne that essentially there's the TAM remains extremely limited because people are just like no we want spray cologne that's what we know that's what we like etc. I think that's a real possibility here and I think it's uh the potentially the reason why these other brands that have sold cologne in their mix have not scaled it uh very aggressively is because it hasn't worked is my guess and and so it's it's in there.

It makes up a small percentage of their sales etc. But it's just not something like that. Um you know I think that's a real possibility. I think it's the number one way this goes wrong and I and I and and very well could happen. I don't think I mean this is the kind of outcome where we like lose all of our money or whatever it is but it more likely the kind of thing where it just never really takes off. I never, you know, I don't get up to a million bucks max, something like that, and you just kind of can't get anywhere.

If that happens, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But to me, that's the clear way this goes wrong. So, um, so there you go. There's the layout financially of the brand that I'm starting. I expect to do this as a series. So, if you're interested in this, like I said, do subscribe to this podcast because I'm going to come back and walk you through more of the more of the things that I talked about uh or more of the things that I'm doing in the business as they come.

But in the meantime, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. I really would love your feedback on this particular episode. Do leave a comment. I want to hear um what you think of this. Hit me with any thoughts that come to your mind as you're going through this. I'd love to hear it. Thanks so much. Big thanks to my friends at Move Supply Chain and Intell for sponsoring this episode. Go check out both of those. The links are in the show notes.

And I've got a bunch of great episodes coming up very soon. I've got uh Alex Cooper coming soon to talk AI. I know I've been talking about that for a little while. And I also have um a really great uh guy that you've not met yet probably named Jared Mayer, one of the founders of uh of Pure Vita who built their retail program and is going to talk about how DTOC brands enter and scale retail, which is something I've never done an episode about.

So I think that's going to be a really good episode as well. Definitely don't want to miss that. and go back and check out my long episode, my beautifully shot episode with Taylor Holiday about uh the sale of CTC and the partnership that they have taken on with um a private equity group to help them scale and and and build a new and bigger thing which is really cool. So that's a deep dive into CTC's history and the things Taylor learned along the way.

I learned a lot in that conversation. I think you'll love it as well. Email me podcast at afgrowth.com. Sign up for my newsletter at afgrowth.com and if you want to work with AJFrowth, I'd love to hear from you. You can fill out the form at afgrowth.com as well. Thanks so much for watching and for listening. I will see you next time. [Music]