My $10M+ Clients Spend Most Of Their Meta Budget On tROAS Bidding. Here's How. transcript

the vast majority of the ad accounts that I get my eyes on at this point are not using one of the very best and actually easiest and fastest to set up tools available to you in meta ads and that is highest value bidding particularly with a Target Rass a Target Rass campaign if you are not running Target Rass ads you are missing out on something that is a great tool in meta and you should be using it I manage at this point only eight figure Brands and every one of my eight figure clients is using Target roas in fact the majority of the spend that I manage at this point is On Target rows bids I run Target rows bids alongside bid caps the beauty of the tool is that it's pretty easy to set up you have to manage it some and I'm going to explain how to do that but now probably yeah 70 to 80% of the dollars that I manage are now spent on Target R Us bids and often times I see ad accounts that add Target R Us bidding add like 30% or more spend to their ad account it's a really really big deal to get it right I'm going to do on this episode is walk you through exactly how I use this and how you can use it too I'm going to explain all the key terms give you a couple screen grabs where I can if you're only listening to this that's okay I'm going to explain it as I go but I hope this will help you a lot to be able to leverage a tool that you should be using in meta ads you should at least be trying it in meta ads because it can make a huge difference in your ad account and I'm going to show you exactly all that ends and out it's all the pitfalls it can go wrong so I'm going to show you where it's going to go wrong I think this episode's going to help you a lot all right let's start by talking about what Target Rass bidding actually is okay cuz Target Rass bidding is is the thing that I use here okay um the the way to start here is to realize that there are two main ways that conversion optimization happens in meta ads okay and those main ways are highest volume or highest value we used to call highest volume lowest cost and for the rest of this episode I'm going to call it that because it's going to make it easier I'm not going to screw up my words that way I think meta changed it at some point to make them sound you know parallel to one another or whatever but um highest volume and highest value okay are two optimization settings that you can run and then within those optimization settings you have various ways that you can put a governor on them okay and those would be the manual bids so every bid every conversion optimized bid in meta ads is either a highest volume or highest value bid again a lowest cost or highest value bid let's start with that distinction okay the highest the lowest cost bid or the highest volume bid maybe I will call highest volume we'll see the the lowest cost bid right um tells meta to get conversions at the lowest cost possible but there is a pro and so that's what most people run right they're they're optimizing for the lowest CAC possible okay and that means meta uh meta is going to go and try to get you um as many conversions as possible at your budget that's what it's going to try and do okay that's the highest volume idea that's why it's called highest volume because the highest volume of conversions at your budget but of course not every customer is worth the same amount of money and so there's another optimization you can do which allows meta to go and Target the highest value bidder which means now you're not trying to get the lowest cost conver conversion what you're trying to do is get the highest value conversion okay and so uh now theoretically you're going to Target customers with a higher uh order value and your aov is going to go up and that is a crucial difference in understanding this tool and if you were to go and um and set up your meta ads I'm gonna show a screen grab here of of where this is set up at the campaign creation budget if you're setting up a CBO campaign all right um and this is also true if you're running ASC basically any campaign setup you have the option and so uh so we'll put the screen grab uh on screen here where the campaign bid strategy can be set to either highest volume or value and that means that you are setting one of those two campaign types okay um and that that you know at the adset level you'll get to go choose whether you want to run highest volume or highest value but within that you can also tell the campaign that you might want some other options which would be uh cost per result goal what people typically call a cost cap a Rass goal or a bid cap okay um a Ras goal is is as it says is going to aim for a certain return on ad spend while maximizing the value of the results a cost per result goal says or cost cap is going to maximize the volume of results a bid cap is more like a cost cap in that respect but it does that slightly differently so we're not going to get into that right now but there's a Val volume versus value optimization happening okay so essentially the one way to think about a Ras goal is to think about highest value version of a cost cost cap okay so if a cost cap is the highest volume manual bid a tros the default highest volume manual bid again I tend to run bid caps but that's for another episode the RAS goal is the is the same tool essentially it's going to set a a Target at which you want to spend but it's going to apply that Target in a highest value setting and uh and so that's the really key distinction here okay um and if you think about why this would need to be a different setting it actually makes a lot of sense when you think about a cost cap right what it does is it it says okay go Target a certain CAC and then get me as many conversions as possible at that CAC okay and average it out at the end now that is a great tool and if you think about what meta needs to forecast to use that tool it needs to forecast two things your spend and your number of purchases okay so that's what a cost cap is going to do your total spend and your number of purchases and spend divided by purchases is your CPA or your ca and that is what the cost cap is okay so you set your there if you're if you're optimizing for highest volume okay or lowest cost again it's going you're going to give meta a budget and say at uh spend up to x amount per day if you're running a cost cap let's call it $1,000 today um spend as much there as possible in the in the campaign that I'm running and then uh and then get me as many converion as possible as long as you can hit X Target now X is the cost cap okay now if you think about this though the highest value conversion now you're actually asking meta to forecast a third thing not just the spend and the purchases but the order value Okay so now meta in its probabilistic forecasting model has to forecast all three of those variables when it forecasts the uh distribution of your spend okay you're asking it to do that okay and now that's why it would need to be a different setting because if you were try to run a cost cap on that it it wouldn't it wouldn't actually be able to it wouldn't be predicting that third thing now you need to predict the target Rass which is the return on investment which includes in the RAS calculation the value okay return on ad spend includes the value of the conversion and of course R is calculated as value over cost okay so um that's the key distinction and I want to say something upfront as we are talking about this is because trass bids are a subset of highest value bidding and you have that third thing whereas cost caps are a subset uh that third variable and cost caps are a subset of highest volume bidding which only has uh which only has two variables to predict that means you are making the calculation more difficult for meta okay uh or put another way you're adding more potential statistical noise and a wi R wider range of outcomes into there and of course if the wider the skew set that you have the more this is true imagine an apparel brand with you know a thousand SKS on their website trying to use Tass bidding versus um a supplement brand let's take uh let's take ag1 right ag1 sells basically one product they basically just need to do a CAC optimization and that's it and the the aov is going to have a very narrow band of potential outcomes I'm sure there's somebody out there buying 10 bags of AG want at once or something I don't even know if you can do that but like uh but something like that whereas whereas uh whereas again the the apparel brand has all kinds of options and so one thing to recognize right away when you run trass bids you are going to have increased volatility because of the increased range of potential order values in your store and you could literally just um just look at your just pull up the orders in your Shopify store and look at how how high the range is of or how wide the range is of order values there are on your store you you're asking meta to go and predict that in there and so there's going to be more variation whereas CAC um hopefully there's hopefully it should be that there's less variation because again there's one less variable in the outcomes now crucially in the midst of that this is indeed a highest value optimization this is something you need to understand really clearly about trass bidding okay trass bidding is a different optimization than highest volume bidding or than lowest cost bidding okay whether it's a cost cap bid cap or an auto bid uh in in all those cases it's different because what meta is going to do is go and try to find higher value customers according to their average order value uh and and is going to try and Target those customers and this is really helpful point because if you think about it for a second if you try to run everything on a lowest cost what meta is very likely going to do then is going to find customers who spend less money because of course it costs less in CAC to convert a customer who is going to pay less just as a sort of basic reality of things okay and this is this is true for you know if you just think about what what a two to1 Rass is on a $100 customer versus a $200 order it's it's uh the same Rass but a different CAC and that's basically true across the board uh customers who spend more cost more on average uh or at least um at least you want you're willing to pay more we should say to go get that customer okay and so because of that if you run only and this is the reason I think this tool works and this is a really crucial Point uh if you run only highest volume optimization you're very likely leaving customers on the table again if let's just imagine your store has only two items in it a $100 item and a $200 item if you optimize for a $50 CAC what's very likely going to happen is you're G to get a bunch of $100 customers and not a lot of $200 customers instead if you optimize for a two to1 row ass you're going to get some of both but you can actually tell meta hey the $200 customer is matters more to me and I would rather pay more because I for whatever reason the way you're economics work out I'm going to go get that person and so what you are actually doing is trying to go essentially up Mar Market in in the customers that you are acquiring in order to um in order to accomplish this if you are in the weeds of meta ads enough that this episode matters to you then that means you are probably also thinking about how to convert more traffic both across a website and on landing pages and the best tool for using that uh for conversion rate optimization that is actually profit driven that is profit optimization tool not just a conversion optimization tool the best tool for that is intellig go to intellig gems. andrewf Faris podcast yeah links in the show notes you can see it uh and use the code Ferris 20 to get 20% off your first three months of intellig gems almost every client that I have is using intellig right now uh in some way to optimize their website and I I really mean that that's part of why I reach out to intellig gems to work with them because it is the cro tool of record in the space of e-commerce it is so robust and so good I'm using it for everything from from like simple AB Lander testing to ABC offer and Lander testing to um to sitewide offer testing I had a great example recently of a brand that went from a stack discount of 5% 10% 15% depending on how much a customer was adding to their cart to 10 20 and 30% they measured all of that not just on conversion rate not just on aov but with the increased discounts they measured the performance of that test based on the actual profit per customer the actual contribution margin which is a big deal because when you change the discount when you double at each stage that means the value of each customer is going to change and there's a lot of different factors here uh intelligence plugs into your unit economics on your Shopify site and then measures the outcome of tests based on those things it's a really big deal that same client also used it recently to test the price of monogramming and personalization I've seen brands use it to do all kinds of price testing I heard Nate Lego say recently that they used intell gems to test like endless price tests across the board for all of their products for like a year until they got to the right spot there's just so so much you can do that can make your brand more valuable by using a tool like intellig to optimize everything after an ad click and generate more value per customer more profit per customer go sign up for it and start using it today it's really easy to set up intellig g.o uh again uh use the code FIS 20 to get 20% off your first three months you're going to love it it's a great tool and what that means for you is you're very if you are not running lowest uh if you're not running any highest value bidding in your ad account there's probably a whole swath of customer that potential customers that you are not reaching right now with your meta ads because you are only bidding on the lowest cost side of the spectrum and not all the way up on the highest value side and so what you can do and this is the basic setup is you can duplicate your your ads from your lowest cost ads uh well again if you're running a manual bid or not uh and you should be running a manual bid but if either way duplicate Those ads into a separate campaign exact same ads okay into um a t- ass version of that same of that of that same product so what most of my accounts look like is it will be like essentially two products uh two campaigns side by side one of them is a bidc cap version of The Campaign and one of them is a tros version so let's just call it let's just call it widget one okay so the brand is selling widget one that brand will have two versions of the campaign uh the bidc cap version of the widget one campaign and the trass version of the widget one one campaign and then I have a target for both and medic and can spend on both all right and um and it's literally the same ads now when you do that this is the thing people are you know sort of uh experienced advertisers are concerned about is their concerned that you're going to have a bunch of auction overlap essentially that you're going to reach the same customer um with both of those ads okay and and so so all you're doing is fighting yourself into the auction and making it harder for meta to optimize okay now um I have a friend Dave recook who you've heard on my podcast seen on Twitter whatever runs bamb worth Dave has actually pulled this report for his Brands and and says that there's only a 5% overlap with his setup between these two these two customer groups so it can be really widely variable I don't know the number on mine I'm going to probably pull that information really soon but the the thing that I know for sure is that adding the TRS campaigns has produced incremental spend for my Brands okay so I don't really care because if there's a little bit of overlap I'm fine with that my goal isn't to minimize overlap my goal is to maximize reach and so the reach of my ads increases as I add to Ros campaigns alongside my um my lowest cost campaign so um so there is going to be some overlap there's going to be some because if you think of every uh customer potentially on a spectrum between sort of willing to spend the least versus willing to spend the most if that's the Spectrum from here to here somewhere in the middle there is an overlap of those customers where the tros campaigns will Target the the sort of the the higher end of your low spending customers and um and the cost cap campaigns will will Target the the the higher end of your or the lower end of your high spending customers whatever right so there's some overlap there I hope that makes sense that's going to be a reality of it but uh I think it's less than people think and there's another thing you can do in your setup to minimize this okay and that is you can run your tr- ask campaigns on a different click optimization window than your bidc cap or cost capap campaigns okay so uh so in my ideal setup here and there's exceptions to this uh what I would do is probably run my bidc caps on a one-day click and my tros on a 7-Day click you could flip that as well if you really wanted to um but uh but that again will Target different customers with different behaviors um now I'm not using any view conversion in there um in fact TRS campaigns uh cannot use view conversions which is sort of interesting I think that suggests something about the value of view conversions but uh but again that's sort of a conversation for another time the uh the main reason I do that is because I'm assuming that a customer who is going to spend more money needs a longer consideration cycle and this is another thing people sort of underestimate in their setups um it is it is helpful to have one day and s-day click um setups in both in your ad account because what that reflects is different customer behaviors people who are um quicker to pull the trigger and slower to pull the trigger on an ad account on on a product of yours and what I try to do generally is to run both um that also will help you minimize the overlap of those two campaigns so if you're running T 7-Day click and let's say bidc cap one day click theoretically you're reaching pretty different customer types even though they're both conversion optimized in the ad account okay that's going to help you minimize the overlap so that's the way I would do it if I'm starting from scratch the exception to that rule is if you are running heavy subscription funnels or pretty much only long consideration cycle funnels okay in in in the subscription funnel case if I've got like Landers that I'm really trying to Target I'm probably going to go one day click right away for everybody and that's it uh maybe with some exceptions but that's probably the way I'm going to do it um including TRS and bidc cap if I'm running uh if I'm running Brands where I you know I again I've worked with a furniture brand at some point with like a $3,000 average order value for that brand it's pretty much s-day click across the board I'm not I'm just not really counting on anybody being in a one day click cycle for that okay but in between that's that's the different setup that I've come to all right um the next thing I want to do is tell you about how to build your targets for um for your Target Ros campaigns because your cost cap right there's a really simple solution here which is that your uh your cost caps uh you know you just have a CAC Target and you use it you're going to probably base that off of your aov or whatever and you do that now if you've seen any of my content you probably know that I am trying to build at any given time uh all of my uh all of my targets based off of the unit economics that I have okay so I'm going to share my screen now if you're watching this you can see it if you are if you are not it's okay I'm gonna I'm gonna follow along and what I've got here is my unit economics document this unit economics calculator is available for you for free if you sign up for my email list just go to AJF growth.com um and if you go there you can I have a a popup there that that promises four free essential e-commerce resources this is one of the things that I send you it's something I use for all of my clients all the time to determine where to set my targets it's got some math built into it um and I think I have a little explanation in there actually in the email you'll get for how to use it you can also just drop your email address in the footer on my website if that helps you if you can't get the popup to trigger or anything like that okay so AJF growth.com go get this it will help you and by the way that will also sign you up for my newsletter which you'll appreciate once a week uh uh no spam uh you're going to like it I promise it's going to be good uh something really tactical every week in your inbox and of course while we're on the topic you should subscribe wherever you're watching listening to this why not do it right now okay there we go all right unit economics St here it is very simply what I'm going to do in this document is I'm going to set my average order value wherever my true average order value is Right $150 let's say I just changed it to that I've got all of my cost of goods Merchant fees customer returns shipping costs all those things fulfillment costs you can set that wherever you want to there's my margin down at the bottom and then what this is going to do is spit out for me a few different scenarios okay a first purchase break even a 20% above break even a 20% below break even um that's just a few things that are in this document just so you have them you can really set this wherever you want to though and it's going to give you CA targets to build and here's the crucial thing in this Doc it's also got Rass targets to build including Rass targets that lad to a 28 day click outcome because you can only set a one day or seven-day click Target but of course many people will click today and buy in three weeks and that's not going to show up in your dashboard right away and so uh there's a delayed purchase multiplier in here as well so you can see how to do this again if that's all confusing to you don't worry too much about it I'm going to um you can just go like I said sign up for my email list and there's a little explainer for how to think about all of those things okay but there's uh Rass targets and CAC Targets in there built into the dock you can use that to set your targets okay so there's that um you want to ladder up to that 28 day click Target and then just build your Ro Target the same way you would with a cost cap except that instead of targeting the CAC now you're targeting the RASS and you're building that off your unit economics as well now you have to adjust that in real time because at some point your actual um average order value is going to come in at a different spot than what you project in this document and so you got to pay attention to that over the long term but that's where you would start the attribution for Target row ass bidding okay is as I said click only so you're going to have one day click or s-day click and here's another important detail um there is no shops bidding in Target Ras campaigns I think both of those things the lack of view attribution and the lack of shops both tell you something which is that what meta can really optimize towards the ACT actually behaviorally is click-based behavior where they see customers who are likely to add larger orders on your site but once you take that purchase and either put it on Facebook shops which is much more oriented towards getting sort of one item in your cart there's no big cart to add Facebook shops is really like I think great for for um for quicker sort of one item carts okay um and then also view conversions I think are also just reflective of the fact that there's no behavioral um sort of forecastable behaviors in view conversions both of those uh both of those are not available options and so when you run Tas bids you do that and by the way if you're running ASC campaigns you can also run a Target rust there you just set the optimization to highest value and you do it okay but my uh advice to you would be that you shouldn't be running view attribution in your bidc cap or cost cap campaigns either it's really confusing um for the metrics that you're trying to set and your targets here just do need to be different in if you are running um a one day or s-day click in both of them this is the other important Point 7-Day click optimization includes seven days of purchase like decision window in purchases one day click optimization only includes one day of purchases and so you have to be aware that neither of those captures the full value of customers but one of them captures seven times the value of customers as the other one okay because it's got seven days that's seven times the value excuse me seven times the time of of of the other one okay and so as long as that's in there in that consideration window you just need to be aware of both watch The Click behavior on both and then of course as always the bank account is the ultimate attribution system that's the only thing that never lies pay attention to the bank account okay and when you pay attention to the bank account you'll see exactly uh how these ads are impacting performance okay now what is the result of doing this okay the result of running tras campaigns is that you increase spend with the same ads and that's why it matters to me and I see it consistently you get more spend with the same ads but crucially you are going to reach different people as I said earlier there's incremental reach you're going to reach different people there are a couple of telltale signs that your tros campaigns or your highest value campaigns in general are reaching different customers than your lowest cost ones and they're in some metrics that I don't talk about a lot usually but in this case they're really helpful as a pulse ch that this is doing the thing you want it to do okay and I'm going to show you a screenshot here in a second where what you're going to see is some metrics related to this exactly the setup I mentioned earlier two products okay excuse me one product two different campaigns one is run on highest volume the uh with a bid cap the other one is run on highest value with a Target Rass okay and what you will see when you look at this is all of the things that you normally see when you see this and this this client this is actually a real client and this client though is like a perfect illustration of when this is a particularly useful tool okay the what you'll see here is that um in the bottom Campaign which is the highest value campaign the aov goes up by $17 from 126 to1 142 okay excuse me $16 okay I did some rounding there really fast so um from 126 to $42 okay so $16 difference uh which is really meaningful in this case that's like an 8% increase in aov um and at the same time there's another couple fast fting metrics if you go to the click if you go to the conversion column okay that second um the the highest value customers convert much more often than the lowest customer than the lowest volume one so 3.7% versus 2.7% that's a really big gap it's like 33% Gap and what that implies is that the CPC of my highest value customers are is way higher I'm getting way less clicks um and that is true I'm getting a much lower CTR a much higher CPC and a much higher CPM and so there's a bunch of here but the highest value campaigns the Tas campaigns have almost twice the click price of the lowest cost campaigns that is extremely normal because it's a higher CPM and a lower click-through rate in this case sometimes it's a higher click-through rate on a higher CPM that can change sometimes but a higher CPC is really normal um and so let's actually start with the CPM what you see here is the lowest cost CPM the bidc cap CPM is $41 41 the highest value CPM is $56 again that's a really big gap a 40% increase uh something like that uh in in CPM okay with that second one now you might look at that and say higher CPM that's bad but I say no no no that's good that means these ads are specifically targeting more valuable customers and more valuable customers are what I want here and I can hold a TRS Target here in this case um in this case my TRS Target is is set like right where it makes sense financially for this brand okay and so now I'm willing to pay more for that that customer and to reach less people because I'm reaching the best customer who's spending the most money with this brand and for all kinds of reasons that's a really really good thing the other correlated metric you see here as i' as I've mentioned a couple times is a much higher CPC so I'm getting way less clicks um in general it's the case that cpms are actually a um higher cpms sort of in general in meta are a good thing because what it reflects in an ad account what it reflects is meta reaching better quality customers uh so you just get what you pay for if you pay for better customers you get better customers um and so for this brand like this is I'm I don't even worry about the cpms here all I care about in this case though is the comparison between the two because what it tells me is that my ads are actually reaching different customers so I've got again a a lowest cost customer who's costing me less money to reach and a highest value customer who's costing me more money to reach and the highest value customer in point of fact is converting much more often and paying much more when they convert meaningfully more um and this account actually that this is a screenshot from started spending a lot of Mone a lot more money really fast probably 90% of the spend in this account is on highest value campaigns and it really makes sense if I was to tell you the category and all those things you would see like it's it's the kind of category where customers can add more to their cart Place bigger orders and where where I want customers who are who are doing those things all those things make a lot of sense if you're running meta ads and you want the best tracking possible you should do that with Billy b y. a billy is the tool that I use with my clients to track the performance of their ads on their website and send the most and largest Ro most robust data set back from your website back to meta ads and it's so easy to install it's so affordable uh Billy is just a great tool you can use it for oneclick installation almost one click not quite one click close to one click like less than two minutes no developer needed for not only meta ads for your pixel but like for Google ads G4 all kinds of other things it also has a built-in cross Channel attribution setup for free included with it it's just a really robust tool all kinds of great stuff coming down the pipe with Billy as well like detecting AI bot traffic using AI to do that all kinds of stuff that you're going to use but the main thing that I've used it for is meta ads conversion data getting the best Mo most robust data set from my website back to meta so that meta has the information and data needs to optimize as best as possible I've tested it head-to-head with other pixels I've also uh Tech tested the event match quality score in so I can get objective data at the level of EMQ in my meta ads account and Billy's outperformed everything else I've ever seen go to Billy . a today to get started with Billy this is The Telltale sign that this is working if it is the case that your uh cpms and your cpcs are much closer to one another or even flipped which happens it's possible that your highest value campaigns are are for whatever reason your account the highest value campaigns the TRS campaigns are not actually adding any more additional value to your spend and so um and so it may not it just may be another thing to manage you could probably check the ad overlap I think you have to get that number from your rep so if you reach out to a rep of some kind even if it's a lower level rep they can be able to pull this for you and to get that add the auction overlap number okay um but yeah in my experience tras campaigns perform um oh excuse me they in usually it's the case that they run exactly what you see there a higher CPM a higher CPC but a much more valuable customer and the math Nets out in the end that's where the TRS is extremely helpful okay now there's one huge Pitfall caveat that I want to watch out for here well two the first is a smaller one in the a bigger one okay the first the smaller one is I want you to pay very close attention to your attribution I've mentioned this a couple times but if you have view attribution in your highest volume campaigns and you don't have it in your highest value campaigns and you've got your meta ads set up so that the default row ass window and CAC window you see includes whatever your optimization setting is so like the the default conversion setup in meta right if you're not adding in if you're not using the compare attribution tool in the column setup in meta which you can do very easily okay um if you're not looking at everything on a click only basis and on the same timeline you're going to be in trouble so if if you're running sday click one day view over here and one day click over here they're going to be very different numbers because they're reporting very different things what you need to do is in your column setup okay go and look and make sure that you've got uh the a click only comparison so like for example the screenshot I just showed you you may have noticed that the 28 day click number was was in there that's very much on purpose was was in my column setup and in fact there were two versions of all the columns and it's because I really care a lot that I'm measuring everything on Apples to Apples comparison so in this case I've got 28 day click compared to 28 day click at the aov and CVR number so that's the really really important thing there okay so uh anyway that that is a really crucial thing because otherwise you're going to look at these and go like a Andrew told me these are going to work and they're not working just make sure you're comparing Apples to Apples uh on the attribution level okay number two and this is actually I think the bigger deal here okay um that is like an annoying thing with reporting that first one I get you the second one is this in my experience Target roas campaigns perform a little to a lot excuse me perform a little to a lot under the Target that you set okay so what I mean is if I set a two to one target Rass all right if I do that then it's very possible that even if I set it on a 7-Day click window if I measure it on a 7-Day click then I'm actually going to get let's say a 1.5 and sometimes it would be even lower than that okay um so here is the way that I would I would add this into my account if I was new to this tool to minimize that okay now by the way if that happens the tool is still extremely useful as long as there's some consistent amount relatively consistent amount that your t uh targets perform under the Target that you set as long as that's the case then you just sort of build that adjustment in right so if you need a two then maybe you have to set it at a 2.5 but that's fine just set it at a 2.5 and measure okay that's that um what you also need to be thinking about though um or or the way that I would uh switch over these accounts if you're new to this okay is that you would start by setting your targets extra conservative when you launch okay if especially if you're nervous about blowing money okay so step one set your targets extra conservative so again we'll use my example a second ago if I needed a two to one and I was launching and I was really budget conscious I really didn't want to blow a bunch of money I'd probably started at like a 3 to one okay on the click window that I wanted so 50% higher than it needs to be so start there okay so so my if I if the outcome I want is a two on TR then that then my initial Target would be a three okay three to one and then what I would also probably do is start with lower budgets okay so essentially if you think about this right the beauty of manual bids is that you can have a high budget and then you use the manual bids to be the governor on the spend but anytime you're trying something new or even if you're just switching over to manual budget bids for the first time this is something I recommend to a lot of people um launch at the same budget that you had before or if you're adding to your campaigns a smaller budget so let's say you're spending $1,000 a day on manual on cost caps right now right what I would probably do is launch my TRS targets my TRS ads at $250 a day okay and I'd started if I want a two to one i' started at a three to one that way it's basically impossible For Those ads to get out of hand okay um and then if I'm spending through my budget and my return is anywhere close to what I want then I would tick up the budget and tick down the TRS Target from there and if you're getting no spend then I'd start to tick down the TRS Target Etc you know but basically you're you're you're moving both budget up and and T down um towards sort of the true targets that you want little by little and that will allow you to sort of inch your way into utilizing the tool without spend getting out of hand um that's the way you can do this and and again if you're adding manual bids for the first time you're switching your whole account over that's another thing you can do as a tool to do that okay now one thing I want you to recognize is that the smaller the sample size the more noise you're going to have as I mentioned in the beginning there's some volatility here you're asking ask meta to predict a third variable and if that's the case then well you need to be conscious of the fact that somebody's going to get a $50 order today and then the next customer is going to buy pay $150 for an order tomorrow and now you got a $100 average order value but two widely different kinds of orders and if you're only looking at one on one day and one the other day then it's going to look all over the place in terms of the performance the smaller the sample size the more variation and the more statistical noise you're going to be dealing with you need to be conscious of using of of that reality when you do this and don't overreact small samples okay um so that's the way I would switch over if you do that what you'll find over time is you'll find some way in which the TRS targets need to be set to get you the outcome you want in your ad account and eventually you can get to a point where they really do that fairly consistently again the smaller the statistical samples are the more noise you're going to have in the long term as well it's not because the tool is unstable it's because that's the reality of how sample sizes works and how probabilistic forecasting Works um do that and you can get to where I've gotten to which is a lot of spend and don't be surprised if the TRS campaigns pretty much take over your out account it happens I have some ad accounts that spend more on bidc cap still than they do on tros campaigns I have some that are the other way it's a real mix so um uh so if it happens and there's not necessarily anything wrong but yes that's how you use the tool I think it's going to be really valuable to you and I hope that helps you a lot but as I said if you like this episode you're going to like my content in general I try to Zone in sometimes like hone in on really tactical stuff like this sometimes uh to get you the tactics and tips you need to use tools like TRS biding and then also try to come back out and think about how do you build a brand or a business that's going to make sense at the level of the p&l the level of cash flow supply chain all those things and so uh if you like this you should subscribe wherever you're watching or listening and of course go over to my website as I said hf.com sign up for my email list get my newsletter tactical stuff like this um delivered every Monday to your inbox I think you're going to like it of course follow up with my sponsors as well I really try to take sponsors who I actually endorse so you can use billyb y. a to get the best uh meta ads tracking data that you can as well as intell who I love working with intell is fantastic um get better testing on your website uh with cro that is actually profit driven and goes Way Beyond Simple cro stuff all the way to all the things we talked about before including uh price offers all that kind of stuff uh thanks that's it I think that's everything subscribe you know what to do reach out to me email me podcast jf.com you know how the internet works I'll talk to you next time [Music]