Should Our Ad Agency Grow Slower? (With Patrick Coddou) transcript

What do we do about the fact Patrick Kadu business partner COO? What do we do about the fact that we have more demand than we can service at AJF Growth? That's not a flex. This is a real thing. The point of these episodes is that you and I talk about the uh what we're facing building this agency. Every month we get on a call and we talk about how do we do it? What do we what are we trying to accomplish? This is like a really constant thing and I feel weird about it and I don't know how to it it creates a real challenge as decision makers at the agency.

Like there's people who want our service. We like these people. We think their businesses are good. We want to deliver great service to as many brands as possible and we have a strong financial incentive to take the business. And there's this thing that you and I go back and forth on all the time, which is what do we do about that? that we have a bunch of demand and we want to service it and it's really easy to see the money flowing into the bank account and at the same time we have some concerns about our ability to service it.

Well, what I mean we've had this conversation a lot. Where are you at with that right now when you think about us relative to our goals? We've we're bigger now than we expected to be. Like how does it hit you today versus when we set out a year, you know, at the beginning of the year to start building? >> Yeah. Okay. So, what comes to mind for me is the constraints. The thing I've I'm learning is the constraints in sca scaling an agency, a service-based business, is very different than the constraints of scale scaling an e-commerce brand. >> Yeah. >> Uh as we all know, uh the main constraint in an e-commerce brand is cash.

Uh you just you can't get enough cash quick enough to to feed the beast and and buy more inventory to scale. There are other constraints, but that's like the main one. That's like the dragon. Um, for us the constraints are uh us as people and energy and time and bandwidth. You know, you and I have talked not as much on the podcast, but but between the two of us about like like I can only go so fast as one person and like we're we're doing a lot.

We're building a lot of software, a lot of agent infrastructure. We're just we're doing a lot really quickly. And so I feel like we me I'm the biggest constraint right now. Maybe people, let's just say people is a constraint. Um cash is not a constraint because we just don't have the same challenges that e-commerce brands have. Um but then other this is Taylor's point all the time and it's I think it's worth noting for people like >> uh you know these businesses um are just they cash flow really well.

So you just don't have the same >> challenge. >> So there's some element of like overhead of like you know me and you that that we have to cover but especially as we grow a little more >> that gets even easier. >> Um you know sort of gross margin versus net margin distinction. But yeah it just you just don't have you just don't have to buy inventory. That's that's wonderful. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's it. >> But then the other constraint is like what I think about maybe even more than the human constraint is the quality of service constraint.

Like my biggest fear is we grow so fast that our our clients notice a whatever a degradation in service because let's say we hired a growth strategist and didn't onboard him correctly and make sure that he or she is like doing the best work possible or we're growing so fast that it distracts us from the core thing which is quality of service. And that's probably my biggest fear. I got to the last thing I want. So I don't even remember what your question was but like Don't you?

So, well, so say something about that when you Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Well, I'll just I'll >> I'll I'll just end by saying I want to grow as fast as possible while making sure those two constraints are kept in check. >> When you think about the quality of service decline problem and you think about the idea of that >> being an issue, I think people talk about this in two ways. One of them is is more subjective. One of them is more objective.

So the subjective the objective one is is the obvious one which is like if we grow too fast and our service gets bad uh it will harm our ability to generate more business like well well I mean first of all it will churn clients and then it will and then the knock-on effect of that is it will it will harm our reputation in the marketplace >> and therefore it will make it harder to get new clients after that because my one this is just like one of my core beliefs about e-commerce is everybody talks to everybody. >> Yeah.

So, and also you're identifying the business mechanics, but frankly, just personally, I would be very dissatisfied with >> Okay, so this is the subjective one. This this is exactly what I was going to say. The subjective one, and this is the one that I think people can be kind of precious about sometimes, actually, >> is like >> I don't want anybody to think badly of me and business. >> And sometimes it's that. Sometimes it's about like reputation, you know?

Um, other times it's it's simpler than that, which is like >> it's not really even about reputation. It's it's a little bit more altruistic than that in the sense of like I recognize that I'm taking somebody else's money for a service and >> it's not my complete responsibility of course to like make their business work and all those things, but at the same time I want to be able to do that with integrity. >> Um, that's squishy because >> there's some element to where you have to just swallow the fact that your service is never going to be perfect, right?

Like I can see all the problems with everything we're doing for every brand, every one of our brands. Every one of our clients, I can see things we could be doing better >> and that's just reality, you know, that's just like >> so there's a weird thing there. But but which when you think about the sort of like I don't want to grow too fast problem um or like I want to maintain quality of service. Do you just you personally do you think you're more towards the subjective concerns or the objective concerns or or do you think you feel them both or what?

Like what what do you think is motivating that for you? >> I I feel them both. The object what remind me that there were two objective ones. What were they? >> Uh we'll churn clients so we'll grow fast >> and we won't be able to get >> Yeah. >> Yes. And then it will also harm our reputation in a way that hurts our word of mouth and referral stuff. >> I think about all of them. I probably think more about the subjective one.

Um because that like I'm just not here to build something that I'm not proud of. And >> I don't know. I don't know how else to say that other than like >> interesting. >> Like I'm not here because I want to make a a ton of money. Like that would be a great that would be a great outcome. I'm not I'm not saying I'm not interested in that and that's not not one of the great things of what we're doing. But like I want to be proud of the work that I'm doing and >> proud that I look the client like I'm actually okay with uh looking in a client and going we've we've had a we've had clients leave that like um you can you I can look them in the eye and go we did the best work we could and um we're proud of our work and just the way that our businesses work we just it doesn't make sense for us to work together anymore and like shake hands and and like still have great relationship with those people and like I don't mind clients leaving.

I don't mind churn in the sense of like this this relationship isn't working out. You know what would be hard for me is to look him in the eye and go man we really screwed that one up or man like uh our service just sucked and I I don't blame you for leaving because it sucked so bad. Mhm. >> Um, see where I'm getting at with this. >> Before we get any further, don't forget to subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to this.

Like it, leave a comment. I read and engage with basically every comment on every [music] episode. If you like this episode, you'll like a lot of my content. Patrick and I do this every month. Talk about kind of where this is at, as well as all kinds of other things that are going on in the meta ads, creative DTOC kind of world. Subscribe wherever you're watching, listening. Don't miss any episodes. It's interesting as you're talking.

I I'm realizing just how much my thinking through this issue is influenced by all my conversations conversations with Taylor Holiday over the years um and being in that business just like you know just watching what happened at Common Thread Collective at different phases of their business just it's just hard for me to not weigh that experience really heavily in this conversation think through what I learned in that process because I watched CTC get really close to death growing too fast. >> And that that definitely made an impression on me. >> I also watched CTC grow incredibly over the last bunch of years and have an exit >> and that also made a really strong impression on me.

I just have a lot of admiration for what ended up getting built there and for the way they were able to maintain the quality of service as far as I can tell as they grew. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think the objective metrics that they have last I'd seen them validate that that people that clients stick with them and they they did a great job. Um, I watched what happened to their reputation in the marketplace. Um, I watched what happened to Taylor's own experience of that because CTC was so associated with him and his initials are not on the name like mine are, you know.

Um, and so I I um it's just it's interesting as I'm listening to you talk, I'm realizing I'm weighing that out against my present experience in the business as well as my past experiences in CTC and being very close to that business as it grew. watching some other businesses that have um that have existed in the in the service business space um and in the sort of meta ad space and all that. I just see a bunch of these different things and um and I I feel a lot of it.

I think one of the things I always fear in the I'm main I'm concerned about the quality of service. I I have two minds about it. Um I fear that the idea of like I want to be able to you know this the subjective reasons that I'm describing. I fear that um part that that's cope a little bit to not challenge myself to be better. >> Yeah, we talk about that. >> Yeah. Um and so this is like a narrative I tell myself and I and I am also conscious of the way that narratives I tell myself shape my actions.

Um even sometimes I think about this with the way I talk about my relationship to money. Um like maybe the reason I talk about not being super money motivated is a way to is an excuse. It's an excuse to to not do something hard. >> Um and it it it keeps the bar lower for me, you know. Um I don't think so, but I just think it's good to be self-critical about things like that, you know. >> I agree. >> I agree. And and to to feel those things.

Uh so yeah, I I um it's interesting to weigh all of that out. I think I really do on the other hand, in the midst of this, I think there's one piece of advice that I see given over and over and over again about businesses that I think is really important and easy to lose sight of. Um, and that is uh to really really really really care about your product. Um, and making sure your product is as awesome as you can possibly make it and to be relentless about that and that as a growth mechanism and uh it's not always plenty of big businesses get big with a pretty crappy product and so it's too much to say just have a great product.

I'm not sure in the service business if that's true. Yeah, it's I think that's the only thing that's important in our business, >> right? And so so there's a logic to the possibility of saying on top of the subjective reasons for this which I do also feel I wonder about like is the actual growth mechanism for us the way to grow fastest is there like a go slow to go fast thing here where it's like if we just relentlessly focus on the product quality that actually is the is the fastest pathway to growth and the and the and the financial mechanism for that is the exact back up is the is the mirror of what I said about the objective reasons before which is you will reduce churn um so that will help you grow right because that's revenue and then on the same times you at the same times you will reduce churn you will maintain such a high quality reputation in the marketplace that you will have word of mouth referral which is really really powerful especially when like so many people freaking hate agencies >> you know um they hate them and so if we can sort of stand out as something >> that they don't you know if they can We've definitely had people refer us and that's just it's just so powerful when somebody tells you somebody you trust tells you these people did an incredible job on my business they can help you as well. >> Yeah. >> You know that is really powerful. >> One of the reasons I was so interested there's a lot of reason but what one of the things I was excited about joining this business was the idea that I don't have to spend all of my time thinking about how I'm going to acquire my next customer. when you're an e-commerce brand like >> I spent so much time on that topic you know um may but like what I really wanted to spend time on was product and operations and team and culture but like I spent so and maybe you know towards the end I had a good marketing team but like for the first you know anyways I love the idea that I don't have to spend any time thinking about that because in this business because number one like you're great at at BD and sales sales and you have great inbound.

But but um I love that I don't have to think about that because now I can just think about making the best product possible, >> the best service in this case. >> Um >> and and what I'm trying to get at is your point that like I don't worry I don't sit up at night worrying about where's our next dollar going to come from in the same way that I did in my previous business. >> And I think it's an amazing thing. Uh I'm getting around to your point that I'm re I'm I want to reinforce your point that focusing on the product and the service is the thing and we don't really have to like you know God willing we don't really have to worry about inbound and lead flow and like that's only going to get >> that statement will only get more strong the more that we focus on just making a freaking amazing product.

And and then the other the this analogy the other dip that where this analogy kind of either breaks down or gets stronger is that in my old business I had a ton of competitors that were doing actually that had really good products actually. Like there are a lot of good alternatives on the market. Yeah. >> To your point earlier, like there's actually a lot of crappy agencies out there that people hate that >> like if we just focus on differentiating ourselves from those um >> like it the growth is just going to continue to to to come. >> We have benefited so much at AJF Growth from our friends at more staffing.

More staffing is the staffing agency that we use to bring on talent across the organization based in the Philippines but built on the back of US-based e-commerce businesses. So the people that they are reaching out to the people the recruiters on their team they understand the e-commerce world really really well. This tends to be the way offshore recruiting firms work. They tend to have specialties. They they tend to know uh one side of business versus another. you know, B2B, B TOC, like marketing type people, supply chain type people, whatever it is.

And the thing about more staffing is they have they they were built on the back of US-based e-commerce business. And so, they really understand the e-commerce uh world really well. Whether you are in a service business or in a TTOC business, I have now been working with more staffing for years. They've done an incredible job recruiting, attracting incredible Filipino talent for AJF growth. They uh have done an incredible job doing that for a whole bunch of listeners over a long time.

I've heard continuing great things about all the people they've worked with. That's why they keep coming back and sponsoring my show over and over and over again because they're having a good experience with the people listening to and watching my show and those people are having a great experience with them and therefore they keep coming back because they can service these businesses so well. So, if you need help in your business with great highquality talent where you can make your dollars for hiring and recruiting go really, really far, you should go to more staffing.co.

Hire in the Philippines where you can hire at the top of the market for a much lower price than you'd hire at the bottom of the market in the US. Just a really good opportunity for you. Any part of your business, you should just go open up a job search with them and see if there's a good fit there. Um, any part of your business where you need help more staffing.co/af, AF whether you're a DTC business or a service business in the space go do that we're working with them all the time they are great go check them out yeah it's interesting I um I mean we one thing we should be honest about there is that we have a part of the reason that is all true is that it's not even just word of mouth it's that I've been podcasting for like 10 years or something like that >> I don't know however however long maybe maybe not quite that long but like a long time so like I've got some audience you've got audience you were active on Twitter when you were running supply I think people know you, people who have known your content like you, they trust you, you come across really well.

I liked you before we met, you know, like I just like, "Oh, this guy is is is uh the kind of guy that I would hang out with, you know." Um, and it just was Yeah. So, I think I think that like makes it better. But that's probably just like same thing like like this is a great example actually. I've I'm cutting my podcasting down. Um saying no to more sponsors there and my views are my views are up relative to where they've been.

You know, like it's almost exactly this principle in action which is like what if I did a little bit less but better? Um could I could I just have more bang for the buck? And then um and then yeah and then and then by and then in doing that we are still going to generate plenty of lead flow and all that through our content and then yeah through word of mouth and and everything else but by just continuing to sort of commit to how good of a job can we do?

Um yeah I think I think I think there is a real go slow to go fast thing here and I think there may be some knock-on values of that too. Like the subjective ones are a big part of it for me as well. I I don't want to take people's money that I don't actually feel like I can really stand by in the service. I I just don't like doing that. Um I think uh I think there is an integrity thing there. I think there's a reality in business to where you're always going to have some you're going to see the problems and you shouldn't hold yourself to perfection.

That's too high of a standard, but you should hold yourself to a really high standard especially when people are, you know, building these businesses that they are putting their blood, sweat, and tears into. Like there's just a respect for that. I think that should happen. Um, so yeah, I think I think that's part of it. Um, and so, so yeah, there are there are some kind of other reasons for that. But I also kind of wonder if even if we go to exit someday, which of course we have no plans to today, but somewhere down the line maybe we could.

Um, if like a steadier growth path over time in some ways is a more attractive business than like something else. I I don't know if that's totally true in service businesses, the way it tends to be in consumer businesses, but um, but you know, could could be the case as well. Uh, so yeah, there's a there's a whole bunch of sort of reasons to think this way about everything, I think. >> All right, so I got a question.

Why did you want to talk about this topic? Because for the audience out there, Andrew is is kind of a hypocrite because you our goal was to grow 200% this year and we're on track for like 450% or something like that. And it's been a little bit painful. And I feel like, you know, Andrew and I have had some frank conversations about how it feels too fast sometimes. Um I don't like I feel like we're in a great spot. Um there's no like >> lingering um concerns or frustrations, but like we are growing fast.

And so I'm curious why this is on your mind right now specifically. I I uh I think it represents a constant thing for businesses that is relatable for other business owners, which is this question of like this constant tradeoff of how do you approach managing resources relative to opportunities and speed and what are the trade-offs involved with all of those things? because it is it is so constantly on my mind. Like I mean one of the questions is like is there a point at which we actively say no to um should we be actively saying no to >> good people who want to work for us when they want to work for us?

Should we be actively saying no to good clients and all that because it's because it's outside the plan. I think in general there's a thing here which is like this question of well you set out a plan and then and you know at some time period like how free should we be to change the plan relative to the to the changing opportunities and that the opportunity for us all the time right now is just like >> the sort of constant inbound of people where I'm going like I don't know what to do about this.

How do we how do we think about which ones of things things we should do? >> Yeah. >> Or or don't do. So that's why it's on my mind is because I just think it's a constant question. Uh and I I think I think it's a lot it's a question for a lot of people. Now again a lot of consumer businesses are probably going like I wish I could grow more. Like you said they're thinking about you know our clients are thinking more about like a different set of questions a lot of times. >> They would grow faster.

Um >> they have to they have to like their escape velocity is >> harder to get to and and higher than ours is. like we're we feel really com like we don't we don't need to we don't need to 10x to get to like profitability like we're already there and so >> but when you're when you're selling razors on the internet you know you got to get to a big number to be able to afford all the things that you need to pay for. So >> yeah. >> Um >> I don't I mean I you your qu I just go back to first principle.

Your question was like how do you how do you balance all that like go back to the first principles we started with which is as long as we're not driving ourselves and our employees crazy um just with anxiety or just overworking them and as long as we're providing an amazing service like I don't care what the plan was like we set that in stone in December of last year and things change. AI has accelerated how quickly we can move.

So like I don't I don't care that we're not, you know, to the plan. Uh I just I care about those other things. And I think that's where we've had friction in the past is like >> Yeah. >> Um is our service maintaining quality? Are we respecting our own limitations? Um >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's that's that's what I just keep coming back to. If you need more ads in your meta ads account and you want to do that at a high quality level and a price that is reasonable, if you [music] are sub $100,000 in spend per month somewhere around there, you just want an extension of your creative team, or even if you're a bigger team, a bigger spending business, and you want more good quality designers, editors, people who will do a really good job making Facebook ads for [music] you.

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So, go check it out. btsstudio.co. Tell them I sent you. You're going to like them. And and part of me also though thinks, well, you're always going to have problems in the business. So, like again, this is where like you I think it's possible to be too precious about this sort of thing. Like, so like in the sense of well, I don't know. like if we say no to new people and new businesses then we have other problems you know like if we say yes to them then we have those problems but maybe they you know so I don't know it's just it's it is a weird thing to kind of constantly look back and forth on all that I'll tell you one framework that I use a lot um and we've talked about this some but that I I think about this framework a lot for the way we design our service and design our growth path and all that kind of stuff is basically just like if if nobody else seems to be doing it that way then it's probably a good idea um and that ju just in the sense of like it creates differentiation and what is a fairly crowded space I think like um you know there's a bunch of people offering to take your money for media buying and creative and forecasting and all that kind of stuff and >> and so part of me just constantly thinks like well how do we do something different than others that still provides value to the client of course um so you know we've talked a lot about the like three clients three full grow grow growth clients per pod kind of thing um you know part of the reason I really like that idea is that it's just it's just And it's different in a way that hits exactly what people seem to care about which is like they want more quality, more engagement, etc.

Um, in a world of AI everything maybe deeper engagement with humans is just different and therefore there's going to be some group of people for whom that is the solution to their problem they can see. I also stand behind it as I think what is required to do excellent work. you know, it's not it's not entirely just different. Like I I really there's reasons that I think it's a good idea, but um but yeah, I think I think uh I think I just think about that and I I think about the same thing with go slow to go fast.

Like it just seems like it's so obvious that you should take more money from more clients for all these different reasons that saying no to that at times is different than what many agencies would do and therefore we have to do it that way because that's just like a a frame a lens through which to view the business, you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, do we need to slow down or keep the same pace? >> Well, one of the things that is really occurring to me here is just this relationship between like, you know, you and I spend a lot of time thinking about training two things.

One of them is LLMs, >> basically like making our LLM better and and agent work better. You spend a lot of time on that. You just you just before you went off you were out for a few days this week, but before that you worked hard on a Saturday to get the to get our agent infrastructure to another leveled up place. It worked. Like you were gone. We've barely talked about this yet. >> We're ripping landing pages over here with agents and they're awesome.

They're good. Like they're working like all that stuff. >> Um and that that took a lot of work to get to. >> So you do that and then we talk a lot about getting our people to be as good as possible at the same time. Again, I just think that's a matter of documentation and SOPs and all that kind of stuff. >> It's also a matter of just spending time with people and reps and >> getting into our system and all that. And there's no substitute for either of those.

You have to document well. You have to build >> agent infrastructure well and you have to spend human time with people. >> Um, so I I've been putting more time into all both of those things recently, the documentation and and human side of things and taken more standup meetings of people working through account problems, stuff like that. Um, so I I think we're doing the right things right now to do that and I think they fit our goals really really well.

I think the >> the what is occurring to me in the midst of that is that so much of our ability to grow is about our ability to attract incredible talent in in the organization >> and train and >> grow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For people who who look at AF growth, who hear what we're doing, who see you and I watch this kind of podcast and go, "Dang, I'd love to work for a place like that." um you know when those people come up if they're really great and we've so far found some really awesome ones and we uh just added another this this week actually that we'll probably talk more about at some point and introduce people more and all that stuff but um but like when those people come that's that's actually the hardest thing for me to say no to like it's like man I I almost don't care what it costs me right now if we if we have incredible people >> I mean like obviously there's some some point at which there is no margin to be made on it somebody's just whatever ever.

But um but in ter in terms of like bottom line cost right now, even if it sort of hurts our profit this year, but it allows us to get more of those kind of people into the organization, that's where I feel the most like, man, throw off all the growth constraints, just get those people here because short mid long run. Um yeah, short run it might be challenging and sticky, but mid mid to long run I think I think there's just a huge amount of value in having that.

You know, >> it's hard to find people. People are hard to find. >> I Yeah, I agree with that. That's we didn't mention that before, but that's another constraint, a big one in our business is just finding good people >> specifically a growth strategy and creative strategy. Like the two of those things are so outsized in their value creation for us and and there's and I mean that's actually >> I mean actually it's actually like great editors do a great job.

Uh they really make an impact to to clients. Like it's it's all the way through the organization. But >> of course >> I think I think about Yas. Shout out Yaz. He's just been such an important part of our growth, you know. Um and and so and that's a really different level of the organization where he started, but he's been he's been really really critical for us and um so yeah. So um yeah, anyway, that that's the kind of thing that will make me want to blow up the plans the most is like wait, there's somebody who is really really great um and we can add them then.

Yeah, that's something we want to do. So >> yeah, that's what you just did last last week. >> I know. While you were gone. [laughter] I hope that's cool with you. That's cool. It's cool. It's fine. It was fine. It was fine. >> Good. >> Good. [laughter] Um, all right. Anything else that we want to talk about? Anything else that is like lingering topics from old things that we should follow up on? Did we miss anything? >> Yeah.

Well, just answer the question. Should we go faster, slower, or stay the same? >> I think right now we're going a little faster than we expected, but not crazy fast. And I think this is about the right pace relative to the opportunity in front of us. >> Yeah. Um, wait, I'll say one more thing about this. I do think generating more profit, uh, getting to a point of having more profit faster, um, has some knock-on benefits.

Like, it's obviously it's beneficial, right? Obviously, but also, I think there's a way it can create some steadiness in the organization. So, the thing you and I really want out of the organization is like a chaos-free life. >> We talked about that. Um, and sometimes it sounds like growing faster is a way to have more chaos, but I one of the bets I'd make is that actually getting to a point of having more consistent profit at a higher number will reduce chaos and it may require a little bit of ch like hard work to get there, you know, >> little bit of pain.

Y >> yeah. Uh, and so I'm sure there will be new pains at that level and all those things, but um that's kind of one of the one of the theories that I have is just that like having more of that just creates steadiness because if you're not worrying about the bank account um too much like >> you know uh then yeah especially because you and I don't have crazy visions of like building you know we we don't have some goal of building a hundred million dollar service business you know what it's like we're I think so so if we I think if it feels steady and above target we feel good, you know. >> So, is that uh maintain course? >> Maintain course.

Maintain course. Right now, I think the thing I don't want to bend on at all is like Yeah. Just the the the thing I I'm most convinced of right now is service quality staying extremely high, including anytime we add services. So if we if we add any services along the way committing to making those really good before we add more services again after that >> um that is the most important thing we can do that that will actually help us grow the fastest over the long you know the tortoise and the hair situation that over the longest period of time that that will that will create the longest term growth and sort of the kaizen thing right like the 1% better every day every little piece of documentation I add every ad format we add to the format library all that kind of stuff you do that over a long period of time you end up with a really really good business that can keep growing even faster Let's go. >> All right, that's it.

Anything else? >> Call it. >> It's a good way to end it. >> All right, thanks Patrick. >> Always enjoy it. [music] >> All right, if you want to work with us, if you want to work for us, if you want to get on a wait list, if we are constrained in our growth, which is where we are at right now, you can do all those things by emailing me at podcastfgrowth.com. That would be a great way to get a hold of me to talk uh through all of that.

I would love your feedback on this episode. Tell me your experience with agencies, with media buyers, with freelancers, with internal, in-house teams, whatever it is, as we try to build in public. I would just love to hear back from you. It would actually really help me. If you've liked this podcast, if you've been if you've benefited from it and you want to tell me a little bit about your experience with agencies and how you hear what we're talking about, it would be a huge help.

So, email me again, podcastfgrowth.com or leave a comment on this episode. If you're watching or listening on YouTube, leave a comment there. I see every one of those. I respond to basically every one of those comments. Podcast fees would work as well, particularly Spotify. It's easy for me to see those comments. I'd love to do that. I interact with all those. Like I said, you can go to ajfgrowth.com and fill out the intake form about tell me a little bit about your business.

Uh if you are interested in working with us and uh see everything else that we're doing at the website there. And I think that is everything uh for today's episode. Thanks so much for watching or for listening. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you're doing that. Patrick and I do these episodes every month. Tell me what you think of them. I'll see you next time.