The Counterintuitive Way I'm Thinking AI For Meta Ad Creative transcript

I think I have a contrarian take on the place of AI in creative strategy in advertising for meta ads and for other DTOC design and production work whether you're a brand or an agency that contrary take has become more nuanced for me over time and it's actually the foundation of what we are building at AJF growth I think that AI is going to do some things for ad creative that are just different than what a lot of people are saying right now and I think it's going to be really helpful and so what I want to do today on in this show is lay out for you what we are doing with AI right now based on my current point of view about the place of AI and ad creative.

Let's get into it. All right, here's the great worry that everybody has about AI in ad creative and it's it's endless slop. Okay, there is this sort of basic theory of AI that goes like this. like you can now create endless creative for basically free and therefore feeds are just going to be flooded with that and because meta ads is a volume game not a quality game. Okay, because of that what's going to happen here is that people are just going to force their way into sort of brute force their way into making winning ads at massive scale.

It's going to lower the bar endlessly. It's going to kill all the creative agencies. It's going to do all those kinds of things. there's some version of the future that looks like that or that looks like some version of that that is definitely a realistic possibility. Um, everybody's worried about AI slop, right? And I think that's a pretty good worry. I think it's pretty reasonable to be worried about AI slop. Uh, I I think in general we should be worried about just the world getting worse and about it being less interesting and all those things.

Um, and it is certainly the case right now and we should just acknowledge this that AI creative is already happening at massive scale. I have a client right now who who today right now has access to unlimited creative production with AI um and and is using it. Okay. So I that client is is currently has built a machine and they've actually hired a developer to help build and refine the machine more. That client has built this machine that is allowing them to produce endless amounts of new creative in their ad account.

Uh and and I know other people are doing the same thing. My friend Dr. Andre Lunv has has been public about showing how he's doing, you know, hundreds to thousands of these ads per day, etc. Um, there is a strange thing where I'm having conversations with metareps about how, you know, it's all about creative testing at volume and uh and with variations uh or with lots of variety in your approach and that's great. Uh, but then you also have to have a testing method where you can test the creative.

And I've heard this weird thing. I mentioned this in my episode about sort of tactics and changing my mind about whatever. Uh but you know there's this interesting thing where where uh metareps are I think on the one hand like I've had them say you have too many ads in learning even though they're also telling me to make more ads. Well, how can you do both of those, you know? And there's a weird thing where suddenly the capacity to create more ads has happened so quickly that it actually becomes really hard to know like, oh, did we actually go from people aren't testing enough ads to people are testing too many ads so fast?

Like was the gap between those crossed so fast that like it actually just um it does like it essentially like we never were in the middle period. we just skipped right over the middle period, you know, um where we sort of got the goal lock zone. That that's like the kind of things people are thinking about. And like I said, there's this concern that about like AI slop, right? The notion that that like everything that is going to get produced is going to just be like bad AI, whatever.

And I am starting to go the exact opposite direction here. Let me just lay out for you what the basic theory is that I currently have about AI create. Okay, it goes like this. The real winners in the AI creative game and therefore in the DTOC and meta ads game are not going to be the people who just use AI to produce the highest volume of stuff. It's going to be the people who create the highest volume of quality stuff.

Now, that might not sound that contrarian, but I actually think it kind of is because one of the one of the beliefs, and I'm going to lay this out a little bit more and make the case for this a little bit more in a second, but one of the beliefs about the quantity thing here is that like essentially even if quality has to win, if quantity is literally endless, okay, and and is free to make, then at some point you just take enough shots and you're going to find quality in the midst of the quantity.

Okay? So that's the logic that you sort of your production capacity is increased to endless and therefore quality just kind of comes out of that naturally. Um now there's a couple problems with that but that I see. One of them and maybe the most important of them is that in some respect meta ads is not strongly incentivized to do that. Meta is going to want to make sure that people stay on the platform and therefore the the lower the quality of output that gets um sent out on the platform unless they can pre-identify it without really showing it into in front of too many users u which they I think can sort of do right now, right?

Um but um but if they can pre-identify it and predetermine whether or not it's good, then basically they don't they're not going to want the the system to be overwhelmed by garbage. And by garbage, what the way I'm defining that right now is um content that people hate consuming. Okay, so uh so it may be that this all tends towards engagement bait, okay? Or something like that, right? That that's definitely a possible outcome.

But whatever the case, the content actually has to be engaging. And here's another crucial part of this, and this undergurs a lot of my thinking right now, okay? Algorithms by definition have a way of sorting through large volumes of content and uh amplifying the most interesting most engaging stuff. And again I'm defining that uh that idea of most interesting c in terms of engagement okay in terms of the idea that it engages users for the most amount of time.

Now again there may be actually cultural push back at some point about just how much of our time goes towards social platforms and etc. and and maybe that there'll be a big cultural push back on this, but that's the basic incentive that social networks have. Okay? And algorithms do this incredible thing where they they promote the most engaging stuff, okay? In this gigantic literally infinite sea of content, algorithms sort through all of that and amplify the most engaging stuff.

Okay? And so algorithms have this way of finding the most engaging things and bring those forward. And so the basic principle that I am make I'm going to suggest here is that if you have the ability to create the highest quality content defined that way okay and probably defined as an advertiser also in relation to how well it converts. So not just how well it engages customers but how well it converts would be the other layer there once you get from or just organic engagement reach to to paid.

Okay. If you have the ability to create the best stuff now you have the ability to create the best stuff at the most scale. That's what AI gives you. And therefore the best quality creators and thinkers etc. the people with the very best ideas about advertising, about social content, about all those things now are going to be able to amplify the output of their um ideas at the most scale the fastest and algorithms in turn will then amplify that for them.

Right? So they can now produce endless amounts of good quality stuff. Okay? And then algorithms will then amplify the really good quality stuff. And therefore the the bar for for um for quality will raise on social platforms because now there will be more good quality uh uh content produced at more scale than ever before. And that and and yet the human attention is still limited to however many hours that people are going to spend on their phones.

Now like user growth for Facebook, right, and Instagram is basically is basically stalled, basically capped. I think again there may be cultural push back to where if anything people are wanting to spend less time on their phones like so I don't know maybe there's still just like untold amounts of time that we can all spend on our phones and that is is sort of time yet to be um uh grabbed by Facebook and by Instagram for you.

Okay. But there's some limit to that so far as I can tell if if for nothing else the like even in terms of fertility rates or something like that, right? You can sort of make this case however you want. There's some limit to that amount of time but algorithms are going to continue to produ to amplify the best content. And so given some constraint like that, the place that I think AI has for uh for great brands and great agencies etc. is is now first to raise the bar of quality not lower it.

So it will actually sort of work against slop is what I'm saying. Um unless the slop is incredibly engaging and then you know it's questionable whether it's called slop. Um, and therefore, okay, therefore, the most important thing that you can do as a brand or advertiser in relation to AI actually happens, and this is the critical point, in some respect, before you ever get to the AI itself, it happens at the level of the quality of your thinking about your brand, about your products, about your margin, which is also going to limit, you know, your ability to hit scale.

It's going to uh be about how you engage with the world in interesting ways. Um, you know, I did an interview recently with Bear Hanlin from Born Primitive. He's just one of the best guys in DDC talking about this. He's talking about, you know, jumping out of helicopters and fast roping down them and then shooting real guns as ways to like produce authentic content. Um, you know, for Born Primitive, for their brand. He's an ex-Navy Seal.

Like, this is really authentic to him. And he's and he's doing these things, these giant like celebration of D-Day kits that they did that are just like amazing. And his brand is doing really cool and interesting stuff. Okay. And you know, Taylor Holliday's told that story a lot because they've been a CDC client for a long time. But I love talking to him about that sort of thing. It's this brand level thinking about creating really cool, really authentic experiences for a community that cares about those sorts of things and from a founder, from a brand that cares about those sorts of things.

And that's like step one. And then step two comes into like the more um you know, and there's all the economic parts of your brand build that are with that. Okay. But then there's step two, which is that they're actually at the level of like thinking, okay, thinking about um what makes great ads and great funnels. Now, um now this is like where I think a lot of people are are going to be stopped short. Like I it's there's I'm really thinking about this like on a philosophical level, okay?

Um and sometimes I mean that philosophical is too probably too strong of a word. I guess I mean like foundational principle level. Okay. Uh what I mean here is like probably the best advertisers who are going to get the most out of AI um are people who have really internalized what makes great ads in the first place and what makes great communication in the first place. If you are serious about landing pages and offers as part of the way that you are going to sell products to your customers at scale.

If you are serious about building great funnels that have consistent messaging from ad all the way through landing page all the way through PDP all the way through reviews all those things you should be using Vermont to build funnels at scale. That is what Vermont is above all else. It is sort of the most souped up landing page software that you could possibly imagine and it goes way beyond just simple landing page stuff.

So, you can build, of course, all the usual stuff where there's um custom content and all that uh connected to each ad that you run, but you can also uh go beyond that to build like custom incart upsells based off of each individual funnel. You can do custom subscription offers, all of all of that. all the things that make it really easy for you as a performance marketer to move fast on testing lots of the things that move the needle the most for your customers, which is a combination of the most important content your customers need to make a purchase decision and also the best offers possible.

And you can do all of that while testing all of it right there in Vermont's own system. So AB testing landers uh off of meta ads is a huge pain a lot of times for a whole bunch of reasons. With Vermont, you just put one, they call it a forever link in your ad and then it splits your traffic and and makes the winning ad uh go and be in that forever link for forever. That way, basically, you never have to go and change around your winners uh once you've got winning ads in there.

You just put that one link in there, scale it forever, and just keep upgrading the landing page as long as you can. Um, it's just really useful, really slick stuff. And the basic point uh of all of this is that Vermont exists to make it as easy and fast as possible for you as a performance marketer to make the kind of changes you want to make and test the things that you want to make at real scale. That's really the value of Vermont and that's why you should be testing it out for yourself.

Go to vermontCommerce.com/af to get started with it today. My clients have used it. My clients have loved it. They've scaled their businesses meaningfully. They've scaled their spends meaningfully. One of them saw like a 50% spend increase right after switching to Vermont. Go check it out for yourself today. I think you're going to like it a lot. For example, maybe they have read Oggov on advertising and they've really taken it to heart or Bill Burnbach Breakthrough Advertising or um Claude Hopkins scientific advertising, whatever.

Okay, those are old books like maybe they're not that useful. So maybe they've read Russell Brunson and Alex Hormoszi endlessly and seen those guys or maybe they've, you know, seen what drop shippers do who are just like the best of the best at this kind of um sort of highly super tactical, you know, uh just just insanely tactical media buying and marketing. Okay. And and it's actually beyond that though. Maybe they also can think really carefully about what makes Instagram reels particularly perform versus Facebook desktop uh newsfeed.

Okay. And they start actually really hammering their ability to generate those kinds of specific pieces of content because people have different users, right? So there's the specificity of behaviors on those platforms. But there's more specificity. What about men versus women? I am actually amazed how little in the DTOC space um people talk about the differences in advertising to men and women who have persistently different shopping traits all like across the board, right?

Just like or or at least on average. Okay. And then what happens if you think about this relative to um all kinds of other things like uh how about millennials versus Gen Z versus boomers? Okay. Um I've seen um for example um uh Alex P put out some put out some stuff about this, right? Alex like uh has been a guest on the show a couple times and she's one of the people I've seen say something specifically about different kinds of content for different generations.

Okay. And so so she's you know there's that kind of voice. What about like some of the stuff Sarah Leger talks about psychological principles and how those play in? Well, how do those psychological principles change relative to gender and relative to uh to uh generation? Okay, and age, right? That kind of deal. Uh and we could take it to other stuff. What happens if you can start thinking seriously about how people who are conservative or liberal um religious or non-religious like and you could actually start building profiles here where you go incredibly deep into thinking about how you build content for all these kinds of people.

Who is your customer? How do you take the best of what David Oaklevy and Russell Brunson both have to say for and how do you apply their principles specifically to Instagram reels to um to the particular shopping behaviors there of millennial um Muslim women like I you know I don't know I I don't know exactly what the the take would be exactly okay um versus taking those same principles and applying them to you know uh whatever other group you want to you want to mention okay and here is my theory my theory is that the better you can do at thinking carefully from the ground up about what makes great content that sells products a lot, the better I think you will do at then turning around and harnessing AI towards the outcomes that you want and towards creating the best creative.

Okay? And there are some certain ideas within that that now um come up to the top. So here here's another one. Okay. Um what about what kind of content you can make with AI? So now we can move from the sort of theoretical foundational principle advertising level to the next level. Um and by the way really fast before I get there. It seems to me that there is relatively little of that kind of foundational level thinking actually happening in DTOC and partly because sometimes I think it hasn't always been that fruitful.

So people don't go down that route because it because people have all these untested ideas and and sort of the answer is just test test, right? But uh there probably are some ideas in there that work. Okay? And if you could actually develop those uh at scale then then um then you you could probably get ahead. Okay. But I just don't see that kind of thinking that h happening very much in in the space and and and I think there will be some winners who who start to really grab some of that.

Another name that comes to mind is Robert Chaldini, right? So just like um how people are persuaded of things. Uh that could be another part of this. Okay. So now you move from the theoretical level from the brand level. Okay. Okay. So, so like setting up your brand for success financially in terms of brand from and product all those things to the theoretical advertising level. Okay. You could take that same theoretical advertising stuff into the level of landing pages and offers of course.

Okay. That would be another place where you could apply all that same kinds of thinking and how do you take you know um uh $100 million offers. Is that what the hormones book is called? Okay. Something like that and apply it to your brand. Okay. And then what happens if you now take all of that and then bring it into a production process where you're using the best AI tools possible for you to then take those ideas and operationalize them in your business for your particular brand or your particular clients.

Okay. And so now you are moving to um to taking the principles at the theoretical level into the operational level. And if you can do that really well now you can actually produce those ideas at scale. Test them figure out what assumptions you have that are right that are wrong. etc. and and start doing this. And there's actually another level of this which is then to say what are the unique ways in which there are more creative opportunities today than there were yesterday because of AI.

Taylor Holidayiday had a great great tweet. I've mentioned it in a couple places now and I come back to it a lot right now. Okay. Taylor tweeted something I thought was so insightful. He said, "There's so much energy right now going into making AI creative look more human. Okay, look more real." And that's the wrong way to think about it. The right way to think about AI creative is instead to do all kinds of crazy stuff that you could never do because now you can do AI.

Now, I don't know if that'll last forever or if it'll just become too obviously AI and everybody will kind of get over it. But the way I've thought about this is I basically now have the capacity of a major Hollywood movie studio um for CGI, but I have that basically, you know, for whatever 100 bucks a month or whatever the AI costs are um just at my fingertips. Okay. So, I can go make crazy stuff that is worldbending and mindbending and that is already totally unrealistic but really fun, right?

And you think about like the Avengers um Infinity War scene where just there's just this in gigantic war of all of these superheroes and all this stuff, you know, it's just CGIed out to the moon and you can do that. Now, there is no better sponsor on an episode about AI than one of the clearest AI wins you can have right now in DTOC e-commerce. And that's switching your customer service software, your help desk to Rich Panel.

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You can do that for your $3 million a year e-commerce brand that that's available to you now. Okay? You can do all kinds of crazy stuff. And so now there are creative possibilities where highly creative people can take ideas that previously they would have said, "Oh, that'd be really fun if I had a $10 million budget." and go, "Wait, I can do that now. I can do that now. I can make crazy stuff." And of course, that applies to super unhinged, weirdo ideas, crazy stuff.

It also applies to more normal stuff and just like pulling in backgrounds that are interesting and things like that without having to pick up a camera in quite the same way. And so now you've got a production process that requires some operational excellence and you've got a creative process. And now at every step of the way, AI could probably be more helpful here. Some of you are for sure listening and thinking um uh a as I'm talking and thinking to yourself uh and thinking to yourself, well, okay, why would I try to go study Hormosi or Brunson or something like that when instead I could just take those have AI study Hormosi or Brunson or Oggov or whatever and pull that into uh its own process.

Okay? Right? So why don't I just have the AI do that work for me and then go create for me? And the answer is because uh what right now I think right now and this is probably going to change in a minute and a half. Okay. Right now I think the actual challenge is not access to the resources. It's knowing which resources to marshall and when and discovering over time which ones to do that. Now of course AI on the back end of your process could also analyze the results for you and determine you know categorize things and determine what's what.

But so far uh you know determine oh that was a Brunson idea that was a Oglev idea. Let's use more of those etc. Okay. But but so far where I have seen the most magic for AI for for my brands, where I've actually seen it be the most useful has been partly the ability to produce content really fast and make it easier to test products fast and cheap and those kinds of things like this client I was talking about earlier.

We've definitely done some of that, but um but for us at AF Growth, we're starting to produce more ads with the help of a of an AI tool where that has had about 60 hours worth of uh development going into it where we're basically for training, just for context and training and for modeling. Okay. And what I when I look at it right now, you know, the prompt has gotten extremely long. This is for like script writing and briefing for ads.

Okay. And I'll just tell you, we don't have any like runaway smash hit winners from this, but we are getting more consistently. We're getting outputs of higher volumes of ads that I think are better than we've ever made before so far. And uh and most of them are spending something. Okay, so it's so it's it's rare that we're getting like uh you know $0 spend or whatever. Um we're still this is so new. I it's like this month we launched it basically.

Okay, that it's a little early to say. But the bet that I'm making is that we can start taking more of this kind of information, including not just the principal information, not just the um creative ideas in general, but also more of the sort of like here's an ads type that works. Now, you can go replicate that really really fast. All those sorts of things. And uh and you could uh and you can you could take that material now and and train LLMs on more of that kind of content really really fast and have it produce those things for you.

Okay, so the point is that is all trending towards the best things that work the most being the thing that we produce at the most scale the fastest. Now, we could take a lot of shots at this because it's so cheap right now to produce those scripts and to produce those brands. And in fact, this is one of the interesting things. You know, AI may eventually come for all my jobs. I mean, I think the the the problem right now, the the reason that um the reason that Icon can't do this right now is that it can't actually make the creative that's good enough yet.

And most people who who have looked at I mean, so far as I can tell, right, I haven't used Icon for a while. Uh I I tried it just just very briefly, but so far as I can tell at this point, um I don't see a tool like Icon, which promises to be a sort of endto-end AI ad creation, endless AI ad machine. it. I haven't seen any AI creative yet like like that is like truly endto-end AI that actually does a very good job of producing ads.

Um so far most of them are just bad and don't get any spend so far as I can tell. Okay. But um but they may get there, right? It may just be trained on all of the information that it gets and feedback it gets from which ads are working and which ones are not and just turn around and produce that use that information to do all the things I'm talking about at much more scale, much faster than I am. You just press a button, you get your ads and that's that.

Okay, that's definitely a possible outcome. But so far, for me at least, the one of the really interesting dynamics I found is that AI has actually only led me to hire people, not to fire people. Because what can happen right now is that we can produce better scripts faster than we ever could before. And I realized very quickly, oh wait, I now need an editor. I need another video editor than I had before for the same number of clients because now we can produce so much more content so fast.

Um, and so now if I can get another editor to uh to work with those scripts, um, and now of course I can produce the VOS limitlessly uh because I can use 11 Labs to produce voice overlays. Now I can create a lot of videos extremely fast. I just need people to edit them more. Okay. Um, and in general it makes me in fact want to hire uh more. It makes me want to expand services because I now believe that we can produce a really high quality ad really really high quality ads uh really fast for clients.

In fact, I've started to think about this idea that my main job in some ways as CEO of AJF Growth is to um on at least for the for our ad creative product for that part of our production is to sort through the dizzying array of creative ideas and creative strategies and hone in on what can we do a great job of for clients and what can we do consistently that produces really really good winners and sort out and like push out the noise of all of the other stuff.

Okay, it's basically an idea uh like editor as opposed to a creator. Like I need to be able to be the person who says, "No, this person's saying this, but it's actually bad. We've tested it. It's not good. Here's the things that actually work." And then produce those things that actually work at scale or work with a teammate who can help me get the production of the best ideas there. That is I am an idea um evaluator uh as the CEO first and then uh you know myself or somebody on my team has to then be the idea operationalizer.

Now, I said this is contrarian, and you may be sitting here thinking there's nothing contrarian about anything you've said, and that's possible. I I don't pay so much attention to the total conversation around this that I know the answer to all these things, but I do think there has been a lot of conversation early on uh in the AI world here about or in in the current just state of things about this possibility of sort of endless ad creation being something that now can happen and you can just sort of win by creating the most stuff.

And I'm starting to really think that's wrong. That's the point that I think I'm I'm I'm against. Uh I think I think my core thesis here, however it plays out in detail, my core thesis here is that the best ideas are going to win more, not less than before. Um and and that uh in that respect, AI is going to function like a lot of technological tools where the people who win the biggest are actually um a smaller and smaller group of people who can do this at the most scale.

Um, you know, there's sometimes a way in which this happens that like, uh, well, I shouldn't say that's what all technological tools do. Lots of technological tools, um, do acrue lots of value to lots of people. And there's a lot you could say about that, but they do seem to disproportionately acrue value to the people who are best at them the fastest or to the smartest people the fastest or whatever it is. And I think there will be some version of that playing out uh in our space to where the really really great advertisers I saw Barry hot tweet this and and maybe it was Alex Cooper saying that it was his idea originally.

I'm not sure. One of them smart guys like one of them was saying something to the effect of um you know the brands I see winning with AI are the brands that I saw winning uh the brands that were already winning uh before AI. Right? There's people who are making good creative use AI to make really good creative more often. Okay? And I think there's something really to that and that's really what I'm getting at that if you want to win there's still a real emphasis that needs to happen on true creative strategy, true offer building, funnel building, those sorts of things.

Because if you can do those things now, you can use AI to go really fast, test these things really quickly and and uh and win really really big. I think there's going to be some brands that win very big by doing exactly that. That's the bet we're making at AF growth. We're putting a lot of time and resources now into that whole process from sorting out the ideas themselves to the production process on the back end to operationalize them.

But really that sorting out the good ideas versus the bad ones first is a huge part of where my effort is going right now. Um I think that's the way brands are going to win with AI. I think that's um at least until some AI tool comes and wipes us all out and says we can sort out the ideas better than you, which hey, it's possible. All right, I'm going to be sharing more about all that of course as it comes down the pipe as we operationalize some of these things. you should subscribe wherever you're watching or listening uh because you're not going to want to miss any of that.

I've also got a great episode coming up where I'm going to walk through the brand that I'm starting like all of the financial details of basically why I'm making the bet I'm making. I'm going to walk through from a P&L perspective, what it is that I think is compelling about the opportunity, how I think it could go wrong if it goes wrong, which I think there's definitely a good chance that that happens. Um, and tell you all about it, show you the brand, show you the product, all those kinds of things.

Um, if you're interested in that at all, I'm thinking through what an e-commerce P&L looks like and why I'd make the bet that I'm going to make. You're not going to want to miss it. So, subscribe to this show. That'll come really soon. I've also got Roman Khan coming up. Just like one of the smartest guys in our space. Don't miss an episode with Roman Khan. Um, he talked about supply chain as his biggest advantage. And so, I just drilled into that and said like, "What are you doing with supply chains that makes you so good and that makes it so that you're building this, you know, giant 9 figure multiple monster brand machine?" He's crazy.

Just subscribe. Don't miss Roman's episode. Big thanks to Rich Panel and to Vermont. You can follow the links in the footnote in the show notes, not the footnotes, in the show notes in the description to um follow up with both of them. Um I'm a huge fan of both those products. So definitely go check those out. And uh thanks so much. I think that's it. Afgrowth.com uh is the place to get everything that I'm doing. Beginning to think about the possibility of taking on some more brands.

If you're interested, reach out to me. Would love to hear from you. Um thanks. That's it. I think that's it. Thanks so much. I would love to hear if you disagree with me. Oh, that's it. If you disagree with me, podcastfgrowth.com. Email me, tell me about it. Thanks. That's it. I'm done. Bye. [Music]